rest were
sysadmins). Now the landscape looks very different.
--
Peter Scott
iolated the separation of
thingummy (my terminology isn't so good here, I trust you know what I
mean).
I don't know how you solve this but please think about this use case. Of
course not every object can or should be serialized but elective object
persistence is pretty important.
eld in the Unicode tables, right?)
Also, what happens when code gets run through mailers or other programs
that think a hyphen is an acceptable place to break a line? Does the
code still work after copy and paste with that newline inserted?
--
Peter Scott
http://www.perlmedic.com/ http://w
Clintonesque parsing when it encounters the token. Okay. But how do I
justify the new syntax to a student? What are they getting that makes up
for what looks like a fall in readability?
--
Peter Scott
http://www.perlmedic.com/
http://www.perldebugged.com/
ion in reading code.
Even if subconsciously, even if measured in milliseconds, I contend that
is important.
Just because some other languages do it doesn't mean Perl should, unless
you know of some studies showing that readability hasn't been impaired.
I'm willing to be surprised.
--
Peter Scott
http://www.perlmedic.com/
http://www.perldebugged.com/
ho give up on reading the other people's programs.
I'm all for giving people enough rope to either hang themselves or make a
hammock, but do we really want to open this can of worms?
--
Peter Scott
http://www.perlmedic.com/
http://www.perldebugged.com/
value judgments and we don't like to make
those and people will argue about their decisions no matter what, but does
that have to stop us?
[1]
http://groups.google.com/group/perl.perl5.porters/msg/74ecce32ff1ad845?dmode=source
--
Peter Scott
http://www.perlmedic.com/
http://www.perldebugged.com/
6 for OS and embedded systems integrators
--
Peter Scott
http://www.perlmedic.com/
http://www.perldebugged.com/
tinue the tradition of tending to err on the side of "practical"
over "elegant". It may not seem rational that avoiding the need to type
"cpan Foo::Bar" makes a huge difference, but I believe it does, for
certain modules.
--
Peter Scott
http://www.perlmedic.com/
http://www.perldebugged.com/
On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 15:40:37 +0100, Aaron Crane wrote:
> Peter Scott writes:
>> can someone tell me why you can't just use && ... || in place of ??
>> ... !!, now that && and || propagate context to both sides?
>
> You get the wrong result when the antece
ey be made so?
pugs> my $a = 42; (1 && $a) = 17;
*** Can't modify constant item: VInt 42
pugs> my $b = 42; ($b || 0) = 17;
*** Can't modify constant item: VInt 42
--
Peter Scott
empty array to die by default.
--
Peter Scott
http://www.perlmedic.com/
http://www.perldebugged.com/
like that, so why is it cropping up that much in P6?
--
Peter Scott
ke of genius.
This conjured up an image of Larry whacking someone with
a coelacanth...
--
Peter Scott
http://www.perldebugged.com/
*** NEW *** http://www.perlmedic.com/
...
--
Peter Scott
to get eurselves a Larry.
Just put Damian on it, and there'll be a Lingua::EU::ConstitutionGenerator
by Christmas. Probably with a back door making him king with droit du
seigneur option in perpetuity.
--
Peter Scott
http://www.perldebugged.com/
*** NEW *** http//www.perlmedic.com/
closures, we
>can do this from wherever we like in the program.
So if you could serialize a continuation, you could freeze your program
state to disk and restore it later? Cool, makes for easy checkpoint/restarts.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
http://www.perldebugged.com/
l_2001.html
Or if you like:
http://www.yetanother.org/damian/Perl5+i/coroutines.html
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
At 02:33 PM 5/2/02 -0600, Jim Cromie wrote:
>eval {} or carp "$@ blah";
>
>it seems to work, and it reads nicer (to my eye) than
>
>eval {}; if ($@) {}
% perl -le 'eval { print "No exceptions here"; 0 } or warn "$@ blah"'
No exceptions her
ting into the language something
which will get very little use, except that a few people will no doubt
enjoy it and insist they can't live without it?
I'm starting to wonder whether some features should be optional...
use extended qw(loop_syntax);
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
and undef or empty list for loops that didn't
execute at all). Which means that some loops could execute and still be
false. Is this hopelessly retrograde thinking? Are the hordes of
programmers yet-to-be that will be weaned exclusively on Perl 6 look
scornfully on me for such opin
t do
@left =~ @right
%left =~ %right
do? One can imagine useful default interpretations that are not commutative.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
#x27;s a constant, but not if you're doing something like
printf "#.3f " x @nums, @nums;
and @nums is empty. You could always scan the format for a %-specifier
which was valid under the old rules and warn that they seem to be using
retro syntax.
# bespeaks a number-type of thi
bout how Perl 6 should
be easier to parse, and this issue is the poster child for the "Only perl
can parse Perl" camp. Does the price of easier parseability have to be
"oatmeal mixed with fingernail clippings"?
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
At 05:43 PM 1/26/02 +, Simon Cozens wrote:
>On Sat, Jan 26, 2002 at 09:28:18AM -0800, Peter Scott wrote:
> > >%foo{"bar"}
>
>It's bare, and it's a word.
Maybe you want to come up with another term to describe it then... but it
isn't a &
yes, because then we could treat
>*all* instances of {...} as a block returning either a closure, a value
>for subscripting, or an anonymous hash, rather than having to decide at
>tokeniser time.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
http://www.perldebugged.com
did, it might be really slow.
> > Somebody should write an implementation first, and then tackle efficiency.
>
>This is a joke, right? I'm on Candid Camera.
I think people are just surprised that you didn't call it Red::Herring.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
http://www.perldebugged.com
s" relationship,
>but that doesn't feel much better. Its just another
>way of programming round a weakness in the object
>models of most mainstream languages
>
>Can anyone see any problems with making C and
>C work with lists? C is not effected. We
>might want some magi
ill don't think there's anything to be gained here. As far as I can
tell, you're saying, "I want it to be easier to express relational database
operations." Me too. I just don't think they get any easier than they
already are.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
http://www.perldebugged.com
At 06:06 PM 6/10/2001 -0500, Me wrote:
>Dataset from multiple 'joined' tables
>
> (A pair of joined tables can be visualized as two
> spreadsheet like grids that intersect at right angles
> with the intersection point being the joined column.
> The vertical slice picks out rows whe
At 05:58 PM 6/10/2001 -0400, Sam Tregar wrote:
>SQL via DBI. It's got a terrible learning curve but it's still around for
>a reason. You learn all about SQL's strengths if you start trying to
>replace it with arrays and hashes. Go forth and learn!
He's right. I do a lot of DBI stuff with Orac
At 02:39 PM 6/5/2001 -0700, Daniel S. Wilkerson wrote:
>Thank you, that's what I thought it might be. This can be done at compile
>time with a two-stage
>compilation. The first one writes the code that the second
>compiles. Then the checking can be
>done during the second stage.
Not when the
.
Of those, only subroutine refs and automatic method generation look like
must-haves for major projects, which are willing to surrender some of the
cute stuff in return for stability.
Quite how Foo prevents Bar from causing shenanigans if Bar was used first,
I don't know; might not be possible until runtime.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
http://www.perldebugged.com
At 01:31 PM 5/21/2001 +1000, Damian Conway wrote:
>> Um, this is a tiny little diversion here prompted by something that
>> came up on perl-beginners, of all places... it's not possible in
>> perl 5 to make a reference to an array or hash slice without doing
>> some copying.
>>
and I haven't
grokked that from the exegeses yet.
That's it. We now return you to the Clinton discussion ("it depends what
the meaning of 'is' is...")
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
http://www.perldebugged.com
, yet this usage might suggest to many people that they can be
changed at run time. If you see what I mean.
I'm sure I could get used to it, I'm just speaking to learnability.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
http://www.perldebugged.com
d accept the other features it provides. I'd like to see
this in Perl 6.
I detest the pseudo-hash implementation (the part that's exposed to the
user, I mean).
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
http://www.perldebugged.com
ent. (It also
>tends to pessimize linkage into pseudo-variadic languages like C.)
Um, how do you know for sure a subroutine isn't variadic? Even if it has a
fixed-length prototype, is Perl smart enough to know that it can't be
called as an object method, bypassing prototype
frozen.
It's not what I'd call a positive image :-)
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
http://www.perldebugged.com
> > AMD's "Duron". *shrug*
>
>"durian".
You want to name it after a fruit smelling of dead cows and sewer gas?
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
http://www.perldebugged.com
At 01:51 AM 5/6/01 +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
>The debate rages on: Is Perl Bactrian or Dromedary?
It's a Dromedary, it says so in the Colophon.
But maybe the symbol of Perl 6 should be a Bactrian, with the extra hump
symbolizing the increased power.
You knew this was coming...
At 09:06 PM 4/24/2001 -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
>Edward Peschko writes:
>: Ok, so what does:
>:
>: my %hash = ( 1 => 3);
>: my $hash = { 1 => 4};
>:
>: print $hash{1};
>:
>: print?
>
>4. You must say %hash{1} if you want the other.
I was teaching an intro class yesterday and as usual, there were
At 02:33 PM 4/16/01 -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>At 09:47 AM 4/16/2001 -0700, Peter Scott wrote:
>>As a very low-tech solution, why not bundle perl 5 *with* perl 6 so that
>>once perl 6 detects that it's been fed perl 5 code, it can send it to the
>>perl 5 compiler/i
not going to.
As a very low-tech solution, why not bundle perl 5 *with* perl 6 so that
once perl 6 detects that it's been fed perl 5 code, it can send it to the
perl 5 compiler/interpreter.
Yeah, I know it makes the resulting bundle huge, but at least it separates
the tasks of parsing perl5
closest mirror, of course.
>
>Would be interesting, but is probably bloatware...
It should by default use a local cache, of course. I suppose if you're
running it as root it should do a perl -MCPAN -e 'install HTML::Module'.
I seem to have misplaced my security hat...
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
y the time people learned to use '-6' we'd have Perl 7 out.
>
>I'm still trying to figure out why the flag needs to change. What's wrong
>with -e? It seems perfectly serviceable.
Because Larry said that by default Perl 6 would assume that its input was
in Perl
7; flag? At
>the very least, I want a short flag!
But by the time people learned to use '-6' we'd have Perl 7 out.
Whatever we come up with, let's figure out how to avoid having to change it
the next time we change Perl.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
nt. I could argue that I don't see strictures as
'morality', and I think that's just an accidental consequence of the name;
suppose it had been called 'use salvation' instead? But there's no way to
win a values debate.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
from blown minds after learning how fast
he wrote the thing.
Oh, and who put him up to that, eh?
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
At 10:50 AM 3/26/2001 -0500, Uri Guttman wrote:
> > "SC" == Simon Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> SC> Why can't Perl automagically do a Schwartzian when it sees a
> SC> comparison with complicated operators or functions on each side of
> SC> it? That is, @s = sort { f($a) <=> f($
At 03:18 PM 3/19/01 +, Simon Cozens wrote:
>That's not really nuts. Really nuts would be suggesting that all operators
>should distribute:
>
> @a = ($foo, $bar) . $baz # @a = map { $_.$baz } ($foo, $baz)
>
>Mmmm. I could get to like that.
Seen http://dev.perl.o
At 09:36 AM 2/22/2001 +, David Grove wrote:
>This is what's scaring me about all this talk about
>exceptions... it can break this mold and make Perl into a "complainer
>language" belching up uncaught (don't care) exceptions forcing try/except
>blocks around every piece of IO or DB handling. Th
htened by the prospect of anyone programming with a
mindset that warnings are okay, and even more by the philosophy that we
should cater more to them than more careful people.
What if the warnings were:
1/100 chance of destroying your files at this point... you win!
1/100 chance of producing incorrect output at this point... you win!
1/100 chance of losing user data at this point... you win!
...
What if the warnings boiled down to that anyway?
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
At 05:27 PM 2/19/01 +, Piers Cawley wrote:
>Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > I don't want to DWIM this. Would it be so bad to have to type
> >
> > GetOptions (foo => \my ($foo),
> > bar => \my $bar);
>
>If
At 12:12 PM 2/18/2001 +0100, Bart Lateur wrote:
>On 17 Feb 2001 20:53:51 -0800, Russ Allbery wrote:
>
> >Could
> >people please take the advocacy traffic elsewhere where it isn't noise?
>
>Advocacy is noise everywhere.
Not on [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(http://lists.perl.org/showlist.cgi?name=advocacy)
At 09:56 AM 2/16/2001 -0500, John Porter wrote:
> > As for the -q thing, I think it is far *less* of a burden to add "use
> > strict" and "use warnings" when you're writing a big piece of code. When
> > you're writing 5 lines, every extra character counts. When you're
> > writing 500 or 5000 lines
7;t want to DWIM this. Would it be so bad to have to type
GetOptions (foo => \my ($foo),
bar => \my $bar);
tie my ($shoe) => $tring;
if we made 'my' consistent with all other functions that take lists
(yes-I-know-it's-not-a-function)?
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
ead the archives... I am the wrong person to ask for a statement of
the opposing viewpoint...
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
the additional connotation that implies
>'no strict', and 'no warn'.
no 'warnings'
> Seems simple enough to me.
Yes, that's what I thought; but this has generated more heat than light, at
least on the times I've brought it up, e.g.,
http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg00025.html
Better get the asbestos underwear ready.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
At 11:49 AM 2/15/01 -0800, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
> >>>>> "Peter" == Peter Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>Peter> Quite. But on a tangent, I see no good reason why this shouldn't be
>Peter> given the same interpretation as "my
enough controversy I can also ask about things which are
labelled as both functions and operators :-)
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
bility since the declaration
is decoupled from the reason - sub AUTOLOAD - for it being there), but the
point still stands.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
trying to claim credit for
RFC 70 here.
>http://dev.perl.org/rfc/70.html
>http://dev.perl.org/rfc/80.html
>http://dev.perl.org/rfc/151.html
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
), albeit in with a messy error.
>OK, script crashing with an uncaught exception isn't nice, but it's nicer
>than silently losing data IMHO.
I think you'll find this addressed already in RFCs 70, 80, and 151. At
least, that was my intention.
http://dev.perl.org/rfc/70.html
http://dev.perl.org/rfc/80.html
http://dev.perl.org/rfc/151.html
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
ally seen any code that makes
use of it. I have grown somewhat tired of writing, and teaching, "return
if $AUTOLOAD =~ /:DESTROY$/", however.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
or
>tar/gzip or other?
Eh? I thought PPM was simply "perl -MCPAN -e install" for Windows users,
pointed to a set of modules which have XS content that they'd had to fiddle
with to port to Win32.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
At 05:07 PM 2/7/01 -0500, John Porter wrote:
>Peter Scott wrote:
> > Sorry, I wasn't clear. Let me rephrase. The 'try' helps me determine
> that
> > the following block is going to be subject to exception handlers which
> will
> > immediately foll
At 02:17 PM 2/7/01 -0500, John Porter wrote:
>Peter Scott wrote:
> >
> > I want the 'try' there for my sake, not Perl's; ... it
> > helps alert me that the following block is subject to non-local control
> > flow rules.
>
>Huh? Down t
ubject to non-local control
flow rules.
I'd rather have the 'try' there for the same reason I want to see the 'do'
in "do { ... } while ..." (well, leaving aside the fact that it would be
unparseable without it). But I certainly understand your preference.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
At 08:44 AM 2/6/01 +, Simon Cozens wrote:
>On Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 11:04:06PM -0500, Dan Sugalski wrote:
> > Granted, if this was all done with trusted servers it would be really neat,
> > but...
>
>TANSTAATS.
Not even with the appropriate amount of PKI/X.509 hand-wav
in C style casting capability, with all the evil that brings
>with it, including the ability to bittwiddle perl structures from
>within perl, which is a feature migrating C programmers miss.
This migrated C programmer misses it like intestinal flu.
Can you come up with one remotely useful example?
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
>
>or fname could be used instead of rval all through it.
Ah, an homage to Pascal :-)
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
language@perl.org/index.html
http://www.mail-archive.com/perl6-internals@perl.org/index.html
Although I cannot find an article referring to what you mention. It does
sound familiar though.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
At 11:39 PM 12/20/00 +, Nicholas Clark wrote:
>On Wed, Dec 20, 2000 at 03:36:48PM -0800, Peter Scott wrote:
> > Should this second paragraph still be true for Perl 6? I have at times
> > wanted to do something of the form
> >
> > perl -lwe '$x = "x";
ted to make the right argument an expression to be
interpreted as a search pattern (since I have qr//).
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
At 01:10 PM 10/24/00 +0200, Philip Newton wrote:
>On 23 Oct 2000, at 15:40, Peter Scott wrote:
> > What about introducing a pragma which either (a) promises not to use such
> > things, or (b) throws an exception if the program does use such
> constructs,
> > and say "
ch constructs,
and say "if you want your programs to be compilable (or compile to
something a heck of a lot lighter), say 'use strict "compilation"' or
whatever"?
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
could anybody please
>explain it. If not, I'd like to suggest to skip the 2nd argument.
Consider how to generate the right result when the slope is infinite.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
At 01:38 PM 10/5/00 -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>On Thu, 5 Oct 2000, John Porter wrote:
>
> > Peter Scott wrote:
> > > the idea is to be an extension of Larry's creative thinking
> > > process. Neither of us is deciding what goes into Perl 6, and
> neither i
ce.
A brainstorming process can be wonderfully enhanced by the introduction of
contradictory or even nonsensical ideas. Not that I would have
intentionally done so myself. But great ideas have sprung from the
unorthodox thoughts provoked by such things.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
nd good tool support (e.g. emacs modes).
Arrgh, you're giving me WEB flashbacks... I nearly went blind trying to
read that stuff...
As I said earlier, why don't we just define a syntax for *anything* to be
used as an extension language, and let the, er, market decide?
--
Pete
ent from the type of thing it contains. But what
syntax will you use? If I make one up for the sake of illustration:
my DogPound(Dog) @kennel :homeless;
then @kennel->municipality, but $kennel[37]->breed. Make sense, or should
I just go back to bed?
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
what if SomeType was like "int", and you were just
>trying to assert that each individual element was going to be SomeType?
>
>If these problems were resolved, then I must admit to having a perverse
>softspot for being able to say:
>
> my packed @bits :long;
&g
ble to call object methods on it distinct from its members, no? So arrays
and hashes could be objects too. Hmm, am I saying that I should be able to
write @array->method()?
There again, maybe it's just this head cold I've got.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
F boundary=VERYLONGSTRINGYOUGETTHEIDEA
... SDF ...
VERYLONGSTRINGYOUGETTHEIDEA
... perl ...
Not that this should stop us from improving POD as well...
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
At 04:53 PM 10/1/00 -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote:
>At 11:33 AM 10/1/00 -0700, Peter Scott wrote:
>>But, setting aside my visceral reaction to changing array bases, you have
>>precisely the same problem here that has scuppered my intent to file an
>>RFC for hashes with fixed k
rator. Bearing in mind that a highly
desirable extension would be user-defined variable attributes.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
re that has scuppered my intent to file an RFC
for hashes with fixed keys; how do you apply the attribute to anonymous,
let alone autovivified, arrays? If I say
my @a :base(1);
then what of $a[1][1]? How to specify that the second level array also has
a base of 1? Without it looking really ugly?
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
ould use objects instead, but
that's hardly the point.)
I have been unable to come up with a lightweight syntax for saying that the
second-level hash keys should be fixed. I supplicate the gods of new
syntax for any succor they may render in my hour of need.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
late undef to IS NULL when constructing
queries, and DBI handily turns NULLs into undefs in results for me. If
this is not about DBMS interfacing but you want Perl to implement SQL
expression semantics, why? What possible benefit is there?
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
WHERE foo IN (NULL)". You'd think that would be the same as
"WHERE foo IS NULL", but n, we're talking about SQL here. (At least
the Oracle brand of it.) Let's not venture one inch down that path.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
g the NUL character, although of course an empty string
actually is terminated by the NUL character, but you don't put it in..."
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
At 06:49 PM 9/17/00 -0400, Michael G Schwern wrote:
>On Sun, Sep 17, 2000 at 03:37:07PM -0700, Peter Scott wrote:
> > However, while we've got ways in P6 to do objects better without
> > pseudo-hashes, a major benefit of them to me is nothing to do with
> objects,
> &
quats => 42);
would be allowed.
So can we keep the option for fixed keys somehow?
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
lly much rather see a new qh// "quoted here doc"
>operator that solves these problems than trying to jam them all into the
>existing shell-like syntax, which is a leftover oddity, really.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
arch for this sentinel string.
>
>I must admit that apart from easy debugging, this feature would hardly
>serve any other practical purpose.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
ed; it's RFC 93, "Regex: Support
for incremental pattern matching". It has everything in there, it just
might benefit from explicitly saying, "This is how people who want $/ to be
a regex can get what they want" even though it may not be called $/ in Perl 6.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
y be considered independently.
*Applause* There is no RFC on it unless it is hopelessly mistitled. This
is something I've wanted for a long time. Someone working on the RFC?
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
e another? That's what my idea was, to provide a
second argument. Also, shouldn't be necessary to label a loop if you don't
have another one inside it, although if you did, it would avoid the
embarrassment of "last undef, 'foo'" that fell out of my suggestion.
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
next does not include any return value,
so what should it be? Of course, if it's false, you didn't need a next in
the first place and if it's true you didn't need a grep in the first place :-)
--
Peter Scott
Pacific Systems Design Technologies
1 - 100 of 225 matches
Mail list logo
