Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

I would like to remind everyone that a) we are all friends, and b) we don't need to reply to everything. Now for some humour https://xkcd.com/386/ "someone is wrong on the internet" Tail of Banana talk, just before Get me off your ... very strong language https://youtu.be/eC9rmsI7dnw?t=1m32s (I

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

Geoff Winkless writes: > On 22 November 2017 at 14:19, Vick Khera wrote: >> This sounds to me like you're going to run afoul of CAN-SPAM unsubscribe >> rules. You should re-think this workflow. > CAN-SPAM only applies to commercial email, "the primary purpose of > which is the commercial advert

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

Vick, * Vick Khera (vi...@khera.org) wrote: > On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 9:07 AM, Stephen Frost wrote: > > * Mike Sofen (mso...@runbox.com) wrote: > > > Confirmed, I did not get a reset email either. Also, I had subscribed > > to the digest version and now I get individual emails - which is why I >

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On 22 November 2017 at 14:19, Vick Khera wrote: > > This sounds to me like you're going to run afoul of CAN-SPAM unsubscribe > rules. You should re-think this workflow. CAN-SPAM only applies to commercial email, "the primary purpose of which is the commercial advertisement or promotion of a com

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On Wed, Nov 22, 2017 at 9:07 AM, Stephen Frost wrote: > Greetings everyone, > > * Mike Sofen (mso...@runbox.com) wrote: > > Confirmed, I did not get a reset email either. Also, I had subscribed > to the digest version and now I get individual emails - which is why I > needed to login, but my pas

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

Greetings everyone, * Mike Sofen (mso...@runbox.com) wrote: > Confirmed, I did not get a reset email either. Also, I had subscribed to the > digest version and now I get individual emails - which is why I needed to > login, but my password no longer worked. Sigh. Mike I've replied to Mike di

RE: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

...@autouncle.com] Sent: Wednesday, November 22, 2017 12:06 AM To: Stephen Frost Cc: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org Subject: Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe) The password reset form does not work. I do not get any reset emails when entering mine, so I can’t unsubscribe.

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

The password reset form does not work. I do not get any reset emails when entering mine, so I can’t unsubscribe. > Den 22. nov. 2017 kl. 04.24 skrev Stephen Frost : > > Igor, > > * Igor Korot (ikoro...@gmail.com) wrote: >> Can anyone explain why? >> Why not do what other ML do - provide the lin

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

Igor, * Igor Korot (ikoro...@gmail.com) wrote: > Can anyone explain why? > Why not do what other ML do - provide the links in the footer? This has been explained multiple times in multiple ways, including at https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce Please drop it. We won't be going ba

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

Hi, On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 2:15 PM, Jerry Regan wrote: > I kind of agree with both. Personally, my strengths are data communication. > Databases are frequent end points. Mailing lists? Have never had a need to > work with them, so they’re in the, “don’t care” bucket so long as they work. > >

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On 22 November 2017 at 03:35, Tom Lane wrote: > Magnus Hagander writes: > > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 8:14 PM, David G. Johnston < > > david.g.johns...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> What would help the majority of readers is if a rule could be added that > >> keys off of the word "unsubscribe" (and maybe

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:46:42AM -0800, John R Pierce wrote: > On 11/21/2017 11:42 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > I am not sure if that is sarcasm but I think the reason is pretty self > > explanatory. -Hackers have all the people that understand how all this > > works, -general has all the peopl

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:05:37AM -0800, John R Pierce wrote: > they did.   you must not have noticed it. I'm sorry I was misinformed, then. I'll look more carefully in my archives and the public ones. I apologise for suggesting that this was not properly announced. Best regards, A -- Andre

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

I kind of agree with both. Personally, my strengths are data communication. Databases are frequent end points. Mailing lists? Have never had a need to work with them, so they’re in the, “don’t care” bucket so long as they work. As far as missing , ‘unsubscribe’ in headers/titles, my totally un

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 10:57:32AM -0800, Alan Hodgson wrote: > That wouldn't help; DMARC policies are based on the From: header. This is why DKIM and DMARC are different, just to be clear. A -- Andrew Sullivan a...@crankycanuck.ca

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 9:02 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > John R Pierce writes: > > On 11/21/2017 11:42 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > >> I am not sure if that is sarcasm but I think the reason is pretty self > >> explanatory. -Hackers have all the people that understand how all this > >> works, -general

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On 11/21/2017 12:02 PM, Tom Lane wrote: I'm not sure I believe it. People reading any database-oriented mailing list are going to be pretty tech-savvy, I'd think. Not to burn bytes but I think your view is narrow on this one. I am tech-savvy although I am certainly not a hacker. The only rea

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

John R Pierce writes: > On 11/21/2017 11:42 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> I am not sure if that is sarcasm but I think the reason is pretty self >> explanatory. -Hackers have all the people that understand how all this >> works, -general has all the people that don't. > rotfl, and ain't that t

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On 11/21/2017 11:42 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: I am not sure if that is sarcasm but I think the reason is pretty self explanatory. -Hackers have all the people that understand how all this works, -general has all the people that don't. rotfl, and ain't that the truth. -- john r pierce, recy

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On 11/21/2017 11:35 AM, Tom Lane wrote: [ wanders away wondering why last week's migration of the hackers lists produced far less complaining... ] I am not sure if that is sarcasm but I think the reason is pretty self explanatory. -Hackers have all the people that understand how all this wor

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

Magnus Hagander writes: > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 8:14 PM, David G. Johnston < > david.g.johns...@gmail.com> wrote: >> What would help the majority of readers is if a rule could be added that >> keys off of the word "unsubscribe" (and maybe some other key phrases) and >> dumps it into a non-public

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 8:14 PM, David G. Johnston < david.g.johns...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Andrew Sullivan > wrote: > >> All I, at least, was trying to say was that there were some of us who >> were entirely surprised, and I'm kind of amazed that a bunch of >> dat

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

Greetings, * David G. Johnston (david.g.johns...@gmail.com) wrote: > What would help the majority of readers is if a rule could be added that > keys off of the word "unsubscribe" (and maybe some other key phrases) and > dumps it into a non-public moderation queue where requests can be handled > ma

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

Steve Atkins wrote: > Removing Subject tagging and footers of the messages isn't an accidental > side effect of the migration, it's (I assume) a primary goal of it. > If that weren't done, more and more people at large consumer mailbox > providers would increasingly have problems sending mail succ

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 11:59 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > All I, at least, was trying to say was that there were some of us who > were entirely surprised, and I'm kind of amazed that a bunch of > database people didn't announce a planned migration weeks in advance. ​My read on all this is that

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On 11/21/2017 10:59 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: All I, at least, was trying to say was that there were some of us who were entirely surprised, and I'm kind of amazed that a bunch of database people didn't announce a planned migration weeks in advance. they did.   you must not have noticed it.

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On Tue, Nov 21, 2017 at 01:48:50PM -0500, Stephen Frost wrote: > > This is really all pointless. Gee, I love it when people dismiss observations with categorical statements. I'll remember to shut up in the future. Given my erstwhile employer, it's probably insane for me to be posting anyway. >

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

All, * Alan Hodgson (ahodg...@lists.simkin.ca) wrote: > On Tue, 2017-11-21 at 10:52 -0800, John R Pierce wrote: > > it seems to *ME* like a simpler solution to the original problem > >   would have been to simply STRIP any DKIM out of the original > >   messages, and continue to munge

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Tue, 2017-11-21 at 10:52 -0800, John R Pierce wrote: > > > > > it seems to *ME* like a simpler solution to the original problem >   would have been to simply STRIP any DKIM out of the original >   messages, and continue to munge headers and footers like mail > list >  

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

> On Nov 21, 2017, at 10:39 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 02:46:08PM -0800, Steve Atkins wrote: >> That's poor practice, for several reasons - replay attacks with added content >> and it being an extremely rare practice that's likely to trigger bugs in DKIM >> validation

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/21/2017 10:39 AM, Andrew Sullivan wrote: On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 02:46:08PM -0800, Steve Atkins wrote: That's poor practice, for several reasons - replay attacks with added content and it being an extremely rare practice that's likely to trigger bugs in DKIM validation are two. The latter

Re: migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

Andrew, all, * Andrew Sullivan (a...@crankycanuck.ca) wrote: > On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 08:40:08PM +0100, Magnus Hagander wrote: > > So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that we have > > more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make those changes > > without p

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 02:46:08PM -0800, Steve Atkins wrote: > That's poor practice, for several reasons - replay attacks with added content > and it being an extremely rare practice that's likely to trigger bugs in DKIM > validation are two. The latter is the much bigger deal. > > It also doesn'

migrations (was Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe)

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 08:40:08PM +0100, Magnus Hagander wrote: > > Which is why the extra email was sent *after* the migration, to make sure > it would be the first one *not* hitting peoples filters, and thus have a > chance of being read even if the others weren't. That surely didn't work, sin

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 1:11 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > Vick Khera writes: > > Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being > properly auto-files by the filter I have set up. > > Yes - did you not see either of the "migration to pglister" messages? > There's a summary of the

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 21/11/17 09:20, Magnus Hagander wrote: On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:07 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: On 11/20/2017 12:03 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Unfortunately, the removal of the footer is a feature not a bug. In order to be DKIM-compatible and thus

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Mon, 2017-11-20 at 18:12 -0200, Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter wrote: > Seems that Thunderbird (latest stable version) doesn't understand > the unsubscribe header. > Or, perhaps, it is wrong. Or maybe you need an addon. -- Jan Claeys

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

> On Nov 20, 2017, at 2:18 PM, Piotr Stefaniak > wrote: > > On 2017-11-20 21:03, Tom Lane wrote: >> "Joshua D. Drake" writes: >>> On 11/20/2017 11:40 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote: >>> One thing I would note is that there is no longer a footer that >>> tells people what to do if they want to unsub

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 2017-11-20 21:03, Tom Lane wrote: > "Joshua D. Drake" writes: >> On 11/20/2017 11:40 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote: >> One thing I would note is that there is no longer a footer that >> tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe. Perhaps one >> thing that could be done is a header (for a

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

Greetings, * Tom Lane (t...@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote: > In principle, the List-Unsubscribe: headers that are now included in > mailing list headers allow MUAs to offer convenient unsubscribe > buttons. Not sure how many of the people who are complaining use > mail agents that don't handle that. Quit

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

Magnus Hagander wrote: > So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that we have > more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make those changes > without peoples filters not matching, we'd be happy to hear it.. I guess it's a bit late at this point, but in

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:58 PM, John R Pierce wrote: > On 11/20/2017 12:49 PM, John R Pierce wrote: > >> Sigh, not surprised about gmail, its amazing how many .com's and .org's >> use it now. I'm not at ALL a fan of how the web client handles a bunch of >> stuff like replies, & hiding your own

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

Edson Carlos Ericksson Richter wrote: > I've been affected also, in a minor way, because I used to receive digest  2 > or 3 times a day, and now I'm receiving every e-mail again. > This is, at least, annoying. > would be better to keep the user options when migrating from one software to > another

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 12:49 PM, John R Pierce wrote: Sigh, not surprised about gmail, its amazing how many .com's and .org's use it now.  I'm not at ALL a fan of how the web client handles a bunch of stuff like replies, & hiding your own messages from yourself. oh and my biggest gripe, gmail seems to

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:49 PM, John R Pierce wrote: > On 11/20/2017 12:20 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote: > > Not even remotely. People use gmail. See https://blog.hagander.net/ > mail-agents-in-the-postgresql-community-233/. > > > its rather hard to tell some of those colors apart on my monitor. >

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 12:20 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote: Not even remotely. People use gmail. See https://blog.hagander.net/mail-agents-in-the-postgresql-community-233/ . its rather hard to tell some of those colors apart on my mon

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 12:20 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote: On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:07 PM, Joshua D. Drake > wrote: Not even remotely. People use gmail. See https://blog.hagander.net/mail-agents-in-the-postgresql-community-233/

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

Em 20/11/2017 18:07, Joshua D. Drake escreveu: On 11/20/2017 12:03 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Unfortunately, the removal of the footer is a feature not a bug. In order to be DKIM-compatible and thus help avoid becoming classified as spammers, we can't mangle message content anymore, just like we can't

RE: To all who wish to unsubscribe

hera [mailto:vi...@khera.org] Sent: Monday, November 20, 2017 10:58 AM To: pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org Subject: Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being properly auto-files by the filter I have set up. On Nov 20, 2017, at 13:48

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:12 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > Magnus Hagander writes: > > Right. This is why you can send an emtil to say > > pgsql-general-unsubscr...@lists.postgresql.org to unsubscribe. > > Oh? First I've heard of that, and I do not see it mentioned on the > PGLister_Announce wiki page.

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 9:07 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 11/20/2017 12:03 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > >> Unfortunately, the removal of the footer is a feature not a bug. >> In order to be DKIM-compatible and thus help avoid becoming classified >> as spammers, we can't mangle message content anymore

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 12:07 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: I use Thunderbird which I imagine most people on the lists are using. I can't find where these would work to unsubscribe. In Thunderbird, ctrl-U shows the full headers, but the List-Unsubscribe links are NOT shown as hotlinks, so you have to copy

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 11:44 AM, Mengxuan Xia wrote: A common feature in modern Email client is to allow users to unsubscribe in one line. This works by sending a email titled "unsubscribe" to the listserv, which most listserv these days are able to understand and unsubscribe the user. thats a featur

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 11:45 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Perhaps one thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time period) that says: The mailing list software of Postgresql.org has changed. Please see this page on instructions on how to manage your subscription and filters. vast majorit

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

Magnus Hagander writes: > Right. This is why you can send an emtil to say > pgsql-general-unsubscr...@lists.postgresql.org to unsubscribe. Oh? First I've heard of that, and I do not see it mentioned on the PGLister_Announce wiki page. It definitely should be. regards, t

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

Em 20/11/2017 17:45, Joshua D. Drake escreveu: On 11/20/2017 11:40 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote:     https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce     Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page.  Sending     "uns

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 12:03 PM, Tom Lane wrote: Unfortunately, the removal of the footer is a feature not a bug. In order to be DKIM-compatible and thus help avoid becoming classified as spammers, we can't mangle message content anymore, just like we can't mangle the Subject: line. Ugh, o.k. In princi

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:57 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 11/20/2017 11:45 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > >> >> So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that we >>> have more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make those >>> changes without peoples filters not

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

"Joshua D. Drake" writes: > On 11/20/2017 11:40 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote: > One thing I would note is that there is no longer a footer > that tells people what to do if they want to unsubscribe. Perhaps one > thing that could be done is a header (for a temporary time period) that > says: > The

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 11:45 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: So do you have any suggestions for actually fixing that? Given that we have more lists to migrate, if you can figure out a way to make those changes without peoples filters not matching, we'd be happy to hear it.. I was thinking about that. I w

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 11:40 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote: https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Announce Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page.  Sending "unsubscribe" messages to the list will not ac

RE: To all who wish to unsubscribe

ilto:haram...@gmail.com] Sent: November 20, 2017 2:41 PM To: Tom Lane Cc: Vick Khera ; pgsql-general@lists.postgresql.org Subject: Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe > On 20 Nov 2017, at 20:11, Tom Lane wrote: > > Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page. Send

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

> On 20 Nov 2017, at 20:11, Tom Lane wrote: > > Those looking to unsubscribe should also read that page. Sending > "unsubscribe" messages to the list will not accomplish anything > except to annoy the rest of the list membership. I imagine that some people might think along the lines of: "Anno

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 8:37 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 11/20/2017 11:11 AM, Tom Lane wrote: > >> Vick Khera writes: >> >>> Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being >>> properly auto-files by the filter I have set up. >>> >> Yes - did you not see either of the "

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On 11/20/2017 11:11 AM, Tom Lane wrote: Vick Khera writes: Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being properly auto-files by the filter I have set up. Yes - did you not see either of the "migration to pglister" messages? There's a summary of the changes at I certa

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

On Mon, Nov 20, 2017 at 2:11 PM, Tom Lane wrote: > Vick Khera writes: > > Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being > properly auto-files by the filter I have set up. > > Yes - did you not see either of the "migration to pglister" messages? > There's a summary of the

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

Vick Khera writes: > Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being > properly auto-files by the filter I have set up. Yes - did you not see either of the "migration to pglister" messages? There's a summary of the changes at https://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/PGLister_Anno

Re: To all who wish to unsubscribe

Did the list software change? All my messages from here are not being properly auto-files by the filter I have set up. > On Nov 20, 2017, at 13:48, Martin Fernau wrote: > > PLS unsubscribe via https://lists.postgresql.org/manage/ > > Today I received dozens of unsubscribe mails, spamming my m

To all who wish to unsubscribe

*PLS unsubscribe via **https://lists.postgresql.org/manage/* Today I received dozens of unsubscribe mails, spamming my mail account :-) thx Am 20.11.2017 um 19:42 schrieb Ramalingam, Sankarakumar: Thank you! Kumar Ramalingam *From:* Zacher, Stacy [mailto:szac...@mcw.edu] *Sent:* Monday, Nov