Stephen Frost wrote:
* Marc G. Fournier ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
we're not talking load issues this time ... the way I understand it,
bittorrent has a 'tracker' process that only one can be running on the "BT
Distributed Network" at once ... so, if the bt "central server" goes down,
the who
* Marc G. Fournier ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> we're not talking load issues this time ... the way I understand it,
> bittorrent has a 'tracker' process that only one can be running on the "BT
> Distributed Network" at once ... so, if the bt "central server" goes down,
> the whole bt network go
Thomas Hallgren wrote:
Gaetano Mendola wrote:
...so the very first client is the real server
that must be run 24/24.
I don't think this is correct. You need a tracker for downloaders to be
able to find each other but no client is more important than the others.
I'm sorry to say that you're wrong.
On Wed, Nov 24, 2004 at 11:28:31AM -0600, Gavin M. Roy wrote:
> To a degree you are correct. AFAIK new downloads could not start if the
> tracker crashed. The tracker is the traffic cop that tells peer nodes
> about each other. I dont believe the tracker that comes from the main
> bit torrent
To a degree you are correct. AFAIK new downloads could not start if the
tracker crashed. The tracker is the traffic cop that tells peer nodes
about each other. I dont believe the tracker that comes from the main
bit torrent author allows for multiple trackers with a common data
repository, bu
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Gavin M. Roy wrote:
No you can not, but the tracker isn't very resource intesive from my past
experience. I can host it if needed.
It wasn't that that I was thinking of ... just wondering if there was some
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Gavin M. Roy wrote:
No you can not, but the tracker isn't very resource intesive from my
past experience. I can host it if needed.
It wasn't that that I was thinking of ... just wondering if there was
some way of having it redundant, instead of centr
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Gavin M. Roy wrote:
No you can not, but the tracker isn't very resource intesive from my past
experience. I can host it if needed.
It wasn't that that I was thinking of ... just wondering if there was some
way of having it redundant, instead of centralized ... nice thing abo
No you can not, but the tracker isn't very resource intesive from my
past experience. I can host it if needed.
Gavin
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Thomas Hallgren wrote:
Gaetano Mendola wrote:
...so the very first client is the real server
that must be run 24/24.
I don't think thi
On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 08:43:56PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Thomas Hallgren wrote:
>
> >Gaetano Mendola wrote:
> >>...so the very first client is the real server that must be run
> >>24/24.
> >>
> >I don't think this is correct. You need a tracker for downloaders
> >to
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004, Thomas Hallgren wrote:
Gaetano Mendola wrote:
...so the very first client is the real server
that must be run 24/24.
I don't think this is correct. You need a tracker for downloaders to be able
to find each other but no client is more important than the others.
can there be mu
Gaetano Mendola wrote:
...so the very first client is the real server
that must be run 24/24.
I don't think this is correct. You need a tracker for downloaders to be
able to find each other but no client is more important than the others.
Regards,
Thomas Hallgren
---(end o
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
| On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, Thomas Hallgren wrote:
|
|> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
|>
|>> What about the Java version that Gavin had mentioned? Aegus or
|>> something like that?
|>>
|> http://azureus.sourceforge.net/
|
|
| There is a Fr
On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 11:06:40AM -0600, Jeff Hoffmann wrote:
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >>The download servers have enough bandwidth to serve any client
> >>faster than the client can take. The traffic on the download
> >>servers is not reduced, only distributed differently. I don't see
> >>a
* Marc G. Fournier ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> >The download servers have enough bandwidth to serve any client faster than
> >the client can take. The traffic on the download servers is not reduced,
> >only distributed differently. I don't see any a
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
The download servers have enough bandwidth to serve any client faster
than
the client can take. The traffic on the download servers is not reduced,
only distributed differently. I don't see any advantage.
Actually, and here is where I exhibit my total lack of knowledge o
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
Am Montag, 22. November 2004 17:40 schrieb David Fetter:
A much slimmed-down bt.postgresql.org is now serving it. :)
Out of curiosity, what purpose does a bittorrent source serve in this case?
I've always just seen it as an alternative option for downloa
On Tue, Nov 23, 2004 at 05:33:15PM +0100, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Am Montag, 22. November 2004 17:40 schrieb David Fetter:
> > A much slimmed-down bt.postgresql.org is now serving it. :)
>
> Out of curiosity, what purpose does a bittorrent source serve in
> this case?
BitTorrent was designed to
Am Montag, 22. November 2004 17:40 schrieb David Fetter:
> A much slimmed-down bt.postgresql.org is now serving it. :)
Out of curiosity, what purpose does a bittorrent source serve in this case?
The download servers have enough bandwidth to serve any client faster than
the client can take. The
It's all peer to peer client type stuff with the exception of the
tracker server.
Gavin
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, Thomas Hallgren wrote:
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
What about the Java version that Gavin had mentioned? Aegus or
something like that?
http://azureus.sourceforge.net
The problem is it requires a box with X on it. (ie it's not console
Java, it's gui java) I don't have a server to run it on right now, but
will be readdressing server allocations shortly and may be able to set
something up with x/vnc and would be happy to use that as a primary bt
seeding site
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
There is a FreeBSD port of it also but it says "A BitTorrent client
written in Java" ... does it work as server too, or, by its nature, are
servers == clients in Bittorrent? :)
Yes. While you're downloading, others might pick bits and pieces from
the segmetns that you've
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, Thomas Hallgren wrote:
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
What about the Java version that Gavin had mentioned? Aegus or something
like that?
http://azureus.sourceforge.net/
There is a FreeBSD port of it also but it says "A BitTorrent client
written in Java" ... does it work as server
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
What about the Java version that Gavin had mentioned? Aegus or
something like that?
http://azureus.sourceforge.net/
Regards,
Thomas Hallgren
---(end of broadcast)---
TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, David Fetter wrote:
On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 12:49:25PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, David Fetter wrote:
On Sun, Nov 21, 2004 at 11:40:29PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
Check her out and let me know if there are any problems ... I've
changed the mk scrip
On Mon, Nov 22, 2004 at 12:49:25PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, David Fetter wrote:
>
> >On Sun, Nov 21, 2004 at 11:40:29PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> >>
> >>Check her out and let me know if there are any problems ... I've
> >>changed the mk script to pull in the bet
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004, David Fetter wrote:
On Sun, Nov 21, 2004 at 11:40:29PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
Check her out and let me know if there are any problems ... I've
changed the mk script to pull in the beta3 man pages that I found
in the dev/doc directory ...
A much slimmed-down bt.postgresq
On Sun, Nov 21, 2004 at 11:40:29PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>
> Check her out and let me know if there are any problems ... I've
> changed the mk script to pull in the beta3 man pages that I found
> in the dev/doc directory ...
A much slimmed-down bt.postgresql.org is now serving it. :)
Ch
Marc G. Fournier schrieb:
Just as a heads up, I'm going to roll it in about 4hrs (~02:00GMT) ...
I checked a couple of mirrors this morning and only the swedish one got
it so far. (timestamps 03:24 - 03:36)
Maybe it would be better next time to upload it before 0:00 GMT
--
Reini Urban
http://xarch
Tom Lane wrote:
> "Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Just as a heads up, I'm going to roll it in about 4hrs (~02:00GMT) ...
>
> Works for me. I've got two small patches I'm about to commit, and then
> I'll go update the release notes; should be done in an hour or two.
Fine by me.
"Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Just as a heads up, I'm going to roll it in about 4hrs (~02:00GMT) ...
Works for me. I've got two small patches I'm about to commit, and then
I'll go update the release notes; should be done in an hour or two.
regards, tom
Marc G. Fournier schrieb:
Just a quick note, since we obviously passed the previous date we were
aiming for ... we're aiming for Sunday evening to roll Beta5 ... all the
major stuff that we felt were outstanding have been committed, and a
*large* # of the smaller patches, but Bruce is working th
* Olivier PRENANT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010227 15:00]:
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Larry Rosenman wrote:
>
> > * Olivier PRENANT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010227 13:30]:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I've been trying to play with beta5 today on unixware 711. I have 2
> > > problems:
> > >
> > > 1) enabling --
On Tue, 27 Feb 2001, Larry Rosenman wrote:
> * Olivier PRENANT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010227 13:30]:
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I've been trying to play with beta5 today on unixware 711. I have 2
> > problems:
> >
> > 1) enabling --with-tcl yields to link errors on bin/pgtclsh and
> > interfaces/pl/tcl
* Olivier PRENANT <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010227 13:30]:
> Hi all,
>
> I've been trying to play with beta5 today on unixware 711. I have 2
> problems:
>
> 1) enabling --with-tcl yields to link errors on bin/pgtclsh and
> interfaces/pl/tcl because Makefile insists on linking with libtcl7.6.0
> inst
Hi,
Is it desirable for me to build Solaris 8 SPARC packages (Solaris .pkg
format) of beta5?
I have experience in doing this.
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
Database Administrator
Matthew writes:
> I think UP or SMP should be an option to check, perhaps just a box for the
> number of processors. Also something to capture the compile flags. I have
> a dual Ppro, and it compiles fine unless I use the -j3 or -j4 commands,
> then I get an error.
Which error?
Parallel make
Bruce Momjian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> OK, clearly your looking at the bit is better than what we have now, so
> how about committing something that looks at the bit, but leave the
> default at zero. Then, let people test zero and non-zero delays and
> let's see what they find. That seems s
> Hmm. A further refinement would be to add a waiting-for-client-input
> bit to PROC, although if you have a fast-responding client, ignoring
> such backends wouldn't necessarily be a good thing. Notice that the
> pgbench transaction involves multiple client requests ...
>
> > Let's keep talkin
Bruce Momjian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> So, the change would have to show that doing the delay when some other
> backend has dirtied a buffer is _better_ than doing no delay.
Agreed. However, we have as yet no data that proves nonzero commit
delay is bad in the presence of multiple active ba
Scratch that... my fault, I started the wrong one. I'm getting the proper
version now.
> -Original Message-
> From: Matthew
>
> FYI, I downloaded / compiled / installed beta5 and did a select version()
> from psql and got:
>
> template1=# select version();
>
> Bruce Momjian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > I think we need to give up on the delay for 7.1.X. I don't see any
> > good/easy solutions.
>
> I take it you think my idea is not even worth trying. Why not?
You are suggesting looking at the "I have modified something" bit in
Proc, and using th
Bruce Momjian writes:
> I was wondering what open items are left? Are we ready to start the
> release process with a docs freeze?
I still have the JDBC docs to finish and someone was going to send some
PL/pgSQL stuff, but I guess I'll have to remind him again. What exactly
is the goal of a doc
Bruce Momjian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I think we need to give up on the delay for 7.1.X. I don't see any
> good/easy solutions.
I take it you think my idea is not even worth trying. Why not?
regards, tom lane
> Bruce Momjian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > I was wondering what open items are left? Are we ready to start the
> > release process with a docs freeze?
>
> I need some feedback on my commitdelay proposal first. If we add a
> runtime parameter to control that, it had better be documented.
I
FYI, I downloaded / compiled / installed beta5 and did a select version()
from psql and got:
template1=# select version();
version
PostgreSQL 7.1beta4 on i686-pc-linux-gnu, compiled by GCC eg
> Bruce Momjian writes:
>
> > I was wondering what open items are left? Are we ready to start the
> > release process with a docs freeze?
>
> I still have the JDBC docs to finish and someone was going to send some
> PL/pgSQL stuff, but I guess I'll have to remind him again. What exactly
> is t
Bruce Momjian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I was wondering what open items are left? Are we ready to start the
> release process with a docs freeze?
I need some feedback on my commitdelay proposal first. If we add a
runtime parameter to control that, it had better be documented.
I have a coup
>
> ... if anyone wants to take a quick gander at it while I wait to announce
> its availability ... let me know if therea re any obvious problems iwht it
> ...
I was wondering what open items are left? Are we ready to start the
release process with a docs freeze?
--
Bruce Momjian
The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> ... if anyone wants to take a quick gander at it while I wait to announce
> its availability ... let me know if therea re any obvious problems iwht it
> ...
Quick note: it will be Sunday at the earliest before I can build RPM's
of beta5. If the package release is af
Hi Vince,
Here's the next thing... how do you want to distinguish between Solaris
SPARC, Solaris INTEL (and maybe even Solaris MAC even though it isn't
sold any longer)? Each of these has a 32 and 64 bit mode also.
I thought that might be what "Platform" could be used for, but
"Architecture" so
Vince Vielhaber [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 10:57 AM
> To: Pete Forman
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [HACKERS] beta5 ...
>
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Pete Forman wrote:
>
> > Vince Vielhaber writes:
> > > On Thu,
On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Thomas Lockhart wrote:
> > Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version. Anyone think
> > of anything else?
>
> Hmm. Any suggestions on how we collate the test results for our release
> docs? And how we solicit tests for remaining platforms?
>
> In previous rele
On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Pete Forman wrote:
> Vince Vielhaber writes:
> > On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
> >
> > > What about adding a field where they paste the output of 'uname
> > > -a' on their system...?
> >
> > Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version
On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Vince Vielhaber writes:
>
> > http://hub.org/~vev/regress.php
> >
> > What other info is needed to distinguish these systems?
>
> The operating systems should be ordered by some key other than maybe
> author's preference. ;-)
Actually it's more rand
> Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version. Anyone think
> of anything else?
Hmm. Any suggestions on how we collate the test results for our release
docs? And how we solicit tests for remaining platforms?
In previous releases (and until now), I have kept track of results
posted
Vince Vielhaber writes:
> http://hub.org/~vev/regress.php
>
> What other info is needed to distinguish these systems?
The operating systems should be ordered by some key other than maybe
author's preference. ;-)
Linux needs to be split into one for each distribution.
'Sun' should probably be S
Vince Vielhaber writes:
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
>
> > What about adding a field where they paste the output of 'uname
> > -a' on their system...?
>
> Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version. Anyone
> think of anything else?
Architecture.
On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Christopher Kings-Lynne wrote:
> What about adding a field where they paste the output of 'uname -a' on their
> system...?
Got this and Justin's changes along with compiler version. Anyone think
of anything else?
Vince.
--
=
er
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [HACKERS] beta5 ...
>
>
> Hi Vince,
>
> That's really nifty.
>
> I don't know how to word it, but I think it might be worth including
> something to find out if the machine was "out-of-the box" with just t
On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> >
> > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
> > relatively quickly?
>
> The beta or registering the results? After the last time I won't
> put beta releases on the webs
Hi Vince,
That's really nifty.
I don't know how to word it, but I think it might be worth including
something to find out if the machine was "out-of-the box" with just the
recommended installation utils (i.e. a "new build" of AIX, NT, Solaris,
etc, then gcc, bison or whatever) vs. a machine that
The Hermit Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
> relatively quickly?
> On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Hannu Krosing wrote:
>> It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
>> central web page for registering th
* Lamar Owen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> [010221 16:36]:
> Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> > the things Lamar and Peter also mentioned. Note: I'm probably 450
> > messagees behind due to a 2 day dsl outage; I may have missed some of
> > the conversation. Some messages trickled in, the rest flooded in over
> >
On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
> > > relatively quickly?
> >
> > The beta or registering the resul
Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> the things Lamar and Peter also mentioned. Note: I'm probably 450
> messagees behind due to a 2 day dsl outage; I may have missed some of
> the conversation. Some messages trickled in, the rest flooded in over
> night. I may be nearing the time for incoming mail folders
On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Vince Vielhaber wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
> > > relatively quickly?
> >
> > The beta or registering the resul
On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:
>
> Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
> relatively quickly?
The beta or registering the results? After the last time I won't
put beta releases on the website, but if you want the results thing
it can be done in a
Hannu Krosing writes:
> It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
> central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
> scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
"Platform already tested" is a misguided concept. Almos
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> Hannu Krosing writes:
> > It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.) provided a
> > central web page for registering the results so that you won't need to
> > scan athe whole list to find out if your platform is already tested.
> "Platform already test
On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Tom Lane wrote:
> The Hermit Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
> > relatively quickly?
>
> > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Hannu Krosing wrote:
> >> It would be nice if someone (pgsql inc., great bridge, etc.)
Vince, is this something that PostgreSQL.Org can have on the web page
relatively quickly?
On Wed, 21 Feb 2001, Hannu Krosing wrote:
> Justin Clift wrote:
> >
> > I was just thinking that perhaps as part of the "beta" release process
> > it would be worthwhile saying "New beta about to be releas
Justin Clift wrote:
>
> I was just thinking that perhaps as part of the "beta" release process
> it would be worthwhile saying "New beta about to be released" (or
> similar) and then have the appropriate people for each platform/OS do a
> compile against the up-to-the-minute CVS and give a yes/no
I was just thinking that perhaps as part of the "beta" release process
it would be worthwhile saying "New beta about to be released" (or
similar) and then have the appropriate people for each platform/OS do a
compile against the up-to-the-minute CVS and give a yes/no for each of
their platforms.
Title: RE: [HACKERS] beta5 ...
Would there be any value in setting up a project on sourceforge to make use of their compile farm? I know that it doesn't cover all platforms, but it would perhaps be a start to mechanical compile and regression testing.
Just a thought...
>> As a matter of curiosity, is each beta compiled and then regression
>> tested against *every* one of the known "supported" platforms before
>> release?
Who are you expecting to do that, exactly?
One of the differences between Postgres and a proprietary commercial
database is that there is no
> As a matter of curiosity, is each beta compiled and then regression
> tested against *every* one of the known "supported" platforms before
> release?
No. But the changes from beta to beta are usually done with platform
compatibility in mind, and we try to stay away from introducing
platform-spe
Hi all,
As a matter of curiosity, is each beta compiled and then regression
tested against *every* one of the known "supported" platforms before
release?
Like, as an official "checklist" type step?
Regards and best wishes,
Justin Clift
Database Administrator
Quoting The Hermit Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2001, Tom Lane wrote:
>
> > The Hermit Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > > things appear to have quieted off nicely ... so would like to put
> out a
> > > Beta5 for testing ...
> >
> > Unless Peter E. has some more commits up h
On Sun, 18 Feb 2001, Tom Lane wrote:
> The Hermit Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > things appear to have quieted off nicely ... so would like to put out a
> > Beta5 for testing ...
>
> Unless Peter E. has some more commits up his sleeve, I think we're
> good to go.
okay, I'll put one out M
Tom Lane writes:
> The Hermit Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > things appear to have quieted off nicely ... so would like to put out a
> > Beta5 for testing ...
>
> Unless Peter E. has some more commits up his sleeve, I think we're
> good to go.
Just uploaded freshly baked man pages, inclu
The Hermit Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> things appear to have quieted off nicely ... so would like to put out a
> Beta5 for testing ...
Unless Peter E. has some more commits up his sleeve, I think we're
good to go.
regards, tom lane
Tatsuo Ishii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I see a small problem with the regression test. If PL/pgSQL has been
> already to template1, the regression scripts will fail because
> createlang fails. Probably we should create the regression database
> using template0?
Done ...
Tatsuo Ishii <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Probably we should create the regression database
> using template0?
Seems like a good idea.
regards, tom lane
> Other than that, I have nothing to hold up a beta5. Anyone else?
>
> regards, tom lane
I see a small problem with the regression test. If PL/pgSQL has been
already to template1, the regression scripts will fail because
createlang fails. Probably we should create the regr
I am GO. SET DIAGNOSTICS is my only open item left.
> The Hermit Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > things appear to have quieted off nicely ... so would like to put out a
> > Beta5 for testing ...
>
> > Tom, I saw/read your proposal about the JOIN syntax, but haven't seen any
> > commit o
The Hermit Hacker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> things appear to have quieted off nicely ... so would like to put out a
> Beta5 for testing ...
> Tom, I saw/read your proposal about the JOIN syntax, but haven't seen any
> commit on it yet, nor any arguments against the changes ... so just
> wonde
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