[python-committers] miss-islington comment spam

Hello, It seems that in some situations miss-islington may send quite a lot of messages, for no obvious reason: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/29612#issuecomment-972754922 Regards Antoine. ___ python-committers mailing list -- python-commi

[python-committers] Re: Trouble bisecting

Oh, my bad. I finally understood my mistake. "git bisect" always expects you to search for a regression, not the other way round. So "bad" revisions are supposed to be more recent than "good" revisions. Regards Antoine. Le 26/06/2021 à 17:00, Antoin

[python-committers] Trouble bisecting

Hello, I haven't bisected the Python source tree in a long time and it seems our current way of making releases is messing it up. # Start on tip of branch 3.9 (3.9)$ git bisect start # 3.9 tip is good (3.9|BISECTING)$ git bisect good # Switch to release 3.9.1, where the bug wasn't fi

[python-committers] Re: status of smtpd

Also, it seems this discussion should happen on python-dev so that more people are aware of it. Regards Antoine. Le 23/06/2021 à 14:58, Joannah Nanjekye a écrit : Am not against removing dead batteries but Am still very skeptical and disturbed about how the decision to remove modules is m

[python-committers] Re: Please make sure you're following good security practices with your GitHub account

Le 16/06/2021 à 07:14, Julien Palard via python-committers a écrit : I do use a Yubikey too. Le 6/14/21 à 11:27 PM, Tim Peters a écrit : If I buy one and plug it in, and that's the end of it, fine by me That's almost as simple as you want: - In Github settings 2FA tab you'll have to hit a "

[python-committers] Re: Please make sure you're following good security practices with your GitHub account

Le 16/06/2021 à 10:33, Christian Heimes a écrit : On 16/06/2021 07.14, Julien Palard via python-committers wrote: I do use a Yubikey too. Le 6/14/21 à 11:27 PM, Tim Peters a écrit : If I buy one and plug it in, and that's the end of it, fine by me That's almost as simple as you want: - In

[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

Le 18/05/2021 à 15:36, Senthil Kumaran a écrit : Antoine Pitrou wrote: I'll ask the question again: what are the « evolving needs » that are not addressed by Zulip, but would be addressed by *another* chat system? I don't understand this question, and lost the context too

[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

Le 15/05/2021 à 19:01, Paul Moore a écrit : So let's start by working out *why* it failed. I don't see any point in having a vote, which comes up with the conclusion that (say) people like Discord, if we then set that up and there's no-one on there. If we were to ask the question, why did peopl

[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

Le 15/05/2021 à 17:57, Senthil Kumaran a écrit : On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 04:16:20PM +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote: You still haven't explained why e.g. Zulip (which has a modern Web UI, a very well-thought threading mechanism, several clients, many integrations, is widely used, and is

[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

Le 15/05/2021 à 17:11, Dong-hee Na a écrit : So I agree with you and my suggestion may not be an objective perspective. But I think that if we decide to choose to adopt new communication tools, I think that we can remove the danger factor which makes people not use after some period. What "

[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

Le 15/05/2021 à 16:37, Dong-hee Na a écrit : > You still haven't explained why e.g. Zulip I think that Zulip is a good service and AFAIK Zulip is the OSS project based on Python. But I think that such communication tools should be evaluated not only technology side but also on how people fee

[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

Le 15/05/2021 à 13:23, Senthil Kumaran a écrit : On Sat, May 15, 2021 at 11:13:48AM +0900, Dong-hee Na wrote: So I'm also a supporter of new communication tools. I agree with everything you've mentioned, Dong-hee. Need for good tool/system that addressed our evolving needs was one of the driv

[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

Le 14/05/2021 à 21:40, Senthil Kumaran a écrit : On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 09:21:14PM +0200, Marc-Andre Lemburg wrote: Wouldn't it make more sense to run a matrix.org server which then connects and bridges across all those channels ? https://matrix.org/bridges/ People could then continue to use

[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

Le 14/05/2021 à 09:26, Senthil Kumaran a écrit : On Fri, May 14, 2021 at 09:03:05AM +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote: Well, the more you create chat services for a single purpose, the less you're likely to actually find a community there. Why do you want to use Gitter if Zulip and IRC al

[python-committers] Re: core-dev chat

Le 14/05/2021 à 02:25, Senthil Kumaran a écrit : On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 04:53:08PM -0700, Guido van Rossum wrote: I’ve found Gitter works well. I’d use that, assuming it was only open to core devs and invitees. Thanks! I interpret this as a) Yes to a need for chat-service for core-dev. b) A

[python-committers] DeprecationWarning silent by default

Le 21/04/2021 à 13:34, Victor Stinner a écrit : On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 1:24 PM M.-A. Lemburg wrote: Isn't that an educational problem ? Adjusting reporting of warnings isn't all that hard: A common practical problem is a project CI which pulls the most recent verisons of 3rd party dependenc

[python-committers] Re: Performance benchmarks for 3.9

Le 14/10/2020 à 17:25, M.-A. Lemburg a écrit : > > Well, there's a trend here: > > [...] > > Those two benchmarks were somewhat faster in Py3.7 and got slower in 3.8 > and then again in 3.9, so this is more than just an artifact. unpack-sequence is a micro-benchmark. It's useful if you want t

[python-committers] Re: Performance benchmarks for 3.9

Le 14/10/2020 à 15:16, Pablo Galindo Salgado a écrit : > Hi! > > I have updated the branch benchmarks in the pyperformance server and now > they include 3.9. There are > some benchmarks that are faster but on the other hand some benchmarks > are substantially slower, pointing > at a possible perf

[python-committers] Resignation from Stefan Krah

Hello, Apparently, Stefan Krah (core developer and author of the C _decimal module) was silently banned or moderated from posting to python.org mailing-lists. He asked me to forward the following message: == Hello

[python-committers] Re: MSDN Subscription renewals

I don't think you receive an e-mail. You should just log in to your account and check your subscription's expiration date. Regards Antoine. Le 29/08/2020 à 22:25, Eric V. Smith a écrit : > And of course I sent this to everyone by mistake. Sorry about that. That will > teach me to do things f

[python-committers] Re: Notification of a three-month ban from Python core development

Can we stop it already? Le 23/07/2020 à 17:52, Nathaniel Smith a écrit : > On Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 05:25 Jack Diederich > wrote: > > I'm sorry we had to ban Guido for three months but maybe he'll learn > his lesson and not merge commit messages that include scr

[python-committers] Re: Python Language Summit 2020 blog posts

Thank you for the blog posts! Regards Antoine. Le 14/05/2020 à 20:19, Mariatta a écrit : > The rest of Python Language Summit articles are now out: > > Property-Based Testing for Python Builtins and the Standard Library, Zac > Hatfield-Dodds:  > https://pyfound.blogspot.com/2020/05/property-b

[python-committers] Re: The Night’s Watch is Fixing the CIs in the Darkness for You

Le 03/04/2020 à 20:48, Nathaniel Smith a écrit : > On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 11:32 AM Victor Stinner wrote: >> I had to update the OpenSSL version in the CI configuration which >> lives in the same Git repository than Python code base. Since our CI >> currently runs on unmodified PRs, maybe the 1090

[python-committers] Re: Policy around compile-time flags in bugfix releases

I don't know. However, it seems possible given the symptoms of the original issue (see ASAN-produced stack trace) that there is a bug when using context vars with foreign threads (in this case, C++-created): https://bugs.python.org/issue39776 Regards Antoine. Le 01/03/2020 à 11:30, Łukasz Lan

[python-committers] Re: bpo email problems - Is there someone in the infra boat?

I don't use Gmail ;-) Le 01/03/2020 à 01:33, Victor Stinner a écrit : > FYI I'm using a Gmail filter to ensure that emails coming from > rep...@bugs.python.org are never marked as spam. > > Victor > > Le ven. 28 févr. 2020 à 20:51, Antoine Pitrou a écrit : &g

[python-committers] Re: bpo email problems - Is there someone in the infra boat?

Le 28/02/2020 à 19:56, Mariatta a écrit : > I think this is same issue > as https://github.com/python/bugs.python.org/issues/38 > > To get in touch with infrastructure team, you can write > to infrastructure-staff at python dot org I'm not sure it's the same issue (my problems started end of las

[python-committers] Re: bpo email problems - Is there someone in the infra boat?

(note - apparently the psf.org domain doesn't belong to the PSF - removing it from the cc list :-)) Le 28/02/2020 à 19:42, Antoine Pitrou a écrit : > > Hello, > > In the end of 2019 I've reported an issue where all b.p.o notifications > would get into my spam fold

[python-committers] bpo email problems - Is there someone in the infra boat?

Hello, In the end of 2019 I've reported an issue where all b.p.o notifications would get into my spam folder (apparently because my ISP's mail server marks them as suspicious in the e-mail headers): https://github.com/python/psf-infra-meta/issues/16 Then since the beginning of 2020 I haven't be

[python-committers] Re: A urlparse regression in minor version

FWIW, I agree with Senthil here. A slight behaviour change in 3.9 is fine, especially in an area where the "right" semantics are not immediately obvious. What we want to avoid is breaking behaviour changes in bugfix releases. Regards Antoine. Le 16/02/2020 à 13:13, Senthil Kumaran a écrit :

[python-committers] Re: A urlparse regression in minor version

Le 13/02/2020 à 03:27, Senthil Kumaran a écrit : > Thanks for sharing your thoughts. > > I was originally thinking that if the problem is contained only to 3.8.1 > and 3.7.6 and, reverted 3.8.2. I would say it depends what the "revert" means: - revert to pre-bugfix behavior? - revert then apply

[python-committers] Re: Possible bug in voting system ? (was: Re: Reminder to vote for the 2020 Steering Council)

Le 10/12/2019 à 23:57, Nick Coghlan a écrit : > On Wed, 11 Dec 2019 at 06:52, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: >> The conversion to an inactive dev is something that core devs need >> to be asked to agree to, and thus needs to be managed as a status >> flag, not depend on commits to the repo. > > All commit

[python-committers] Re: Steering Council Nomination Period - Begins Nov 1

How can we ask questions? For example I don't seem to be allowed to post under: https://discuss.python.org/t/steering-council-nomination-pablo-galindo-salgado-2020-term/2667 Regards Antoine. Le 18/11/2019 à 19:43, Brett Cannon a écrit : > Nominations closed out and it looks like the following

[python-committers] Re: [Python-checkins] remove a strange non-ASCII character in _iomodule.c (GH-17239)

There's probably an argument for being consistent, though. If there's only a single one of them in a given file, it may mean it's an accident. The best thing may be to "git annotate" who added it and ask them. I don't remember the _io module having form feed characters in its source code. But I

[python-committers] Re: Cleaning up the historical list of core developers

Le 05/07/2019 à 09:58, Alexandre Vassalotti a écrit : > > On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 5:00 AM Antoine Pitrou <mailto:anto...@python.org>> wrote: > > > So, how do we pull together a clean-enough list of historical core > > developers? Here is my idea of criter

[python-committers] Re: Cleaning up the historical list of core developers

Le 03/07/2019 à 21:45, Brett Cannon a écrit : > To simplify the developer log and to have an accurate list of core > developers for PEP 13, I have been trying to compile a clean, historical > list of core developers. Thanks for tackling this! > So, how do we pull together a clean-enough list of

Re: [python-committers] Azure build operations

Le 21/05/2019 à 20:28, Paul Moore a écrit : > On Tue, 21 May 2019 at 19:10, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> >> Hello, >> >> How can I restart a failed build on Azure? >> https://dev.azure.com/Python/cpython/_build/results?buildId=43161&view=logs&j=18d1a34d

[python-committers] Azure build operations

Hello, How can I restart a failed build on Azure? https://dev.azure.com/Python/cpython/_build/results?buildId=43161&view=logs&j=18d1a34d-6940-5fc1-f55b-405e2fba32b1 Regards Antoine. ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org http

Re: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as core developers

Le 14/05/2019 à 01:19, Gregory P. Smith a écrit : > > I think these two make sense as email module maintainers from a > demonstrated domain expertise point of view. > > But you'll probably have an easier time convincing others who want to > see some PRs first if you just go ahead and have them d

Re: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as core developers

Le 13/05/2019 à 10:14, Victor Stinner a écrit : > > I would prefer to first see them more involved upstream, before > starting to discuss promoting them. They are other contributors who > are way more active than them. > > In the meanwhile, they don't have to be core devs to help to maintain > t

Re: [python-committers] Promote Mark Sapiro and Abhilash Raj as core developers

I'd like to second Andrew's request. Regards Antoine. Le 09/05/2019 à 21:14, Andrew Svetlov a écrit : > A link to a list of CPython commits (Pull Requests) for both these > guys would be greatly appreciated. > > On Thu, May 9, 2019 at 1:59 PM Barry Warsaw wrote: >> >> If you like the way mai

Re: [python-committers] [Python-Dev] Farewell, Python 3.4

Thank you for being a generally reasonable being. Regards Antoine. Le 09/05/2019 à 04:23, Benjamin Peterson a écrit : > Thank you for your service! > > On Wed, May 8, 2019, at 08:37, Larry Hastings wrote: >> >> >> It's with a note of sadness that I announce the final retirement of >> Python

Re: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?

Ah, there's already a PR at https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/13192, thanks to Gregory. Regards Antoine. Le 08/05/2019 à 17:58, Antoine Pitrou a écrit : > > Ok, apparently the SSL cert on self-signed.pythontest.net was changed > but it wasn't updated in our sou

Re: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?

tHub command line (it respects the same branch protection policy) > > I don't think we should merge if tests are still failing. Perhaps the > test should be adjusted to handle this spurious errors? Can it be marked > as "allowed failure" or something like that? >

Re: [python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?

now? > > My usual habit on other projects (I'm not very active on CPython these > days) is to restart the build on travis so that is a nice green checkmark. > > Alex > > On Wed, May 8, 2019 at 11:32 AM Antoine Pitrou <mailto:anto...@python.org>> wrote:

[python-committers] Merge with spurious CI failures?

Hello, There are spurious CI failures (SSL certificate issue in test_httplib). Therefore the "Squash and merge" button is greyed out. How should I merge? Using the command-line instructions from Github? Regards Antoine. ___ python-committers mailing

Re: [python-committers] Hello

Welcome / Bienvenue Stéphane ! Regards Antoine. Le 15/04/2019 à 13:10, Stephane Wirtel a écrit : > Hello everyone, > > Thank you. It's just a dream come true. When I started to contribute to > Python, I didn't think I would become a core-dev. I am really honoured > becoming a member of this f

Re: [python-committers] Welcome Stefan Behnel to the team!

Welcome Stefan and Stéphane ! Le 08/04/2019 à 22:04, Brett Cannon a écrit : > > > ___ > python-committers mailing list > python-committers@python.org > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-committers > Code of Conduct: https://www.python.o

Re: [python-committers] Could we focus our discourse, mail list on Python related issues?

Le 07/04/2019 à 18:42, Berker Peksağ a écrit : > > IMO, every individual would > want to work in better conditions regardless of their opinions on > politics (freedom of speech, cheap education, and better health care > can be added to that list) Of course, as you pointed out, it doesn't > mean t

Re: [python-committers] Could we focus our discourse, mail list on Python related issues?

Le 07/04/2019 à 14:41, Berker Peksağ a écrit : > On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 3:19 PM Xiang Zhang wrote: >> https://discuss.python.org/t/can-we-do-something-for-996-programmers-in-china/1119/11 > > Hi Xiang, > > Perhaps I'm missing some context here, but Guido's first post in the > thread you've link

Re: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer

Le 05/04/2019 à 22:14, Brett Cannon a écrit : > > I don't think you meant it to come off this way, but that email felt > like a lecture because you didn't ask for clarification and instead just > stated back at me what the process is as if you didn't believe me or any > one of the five of us knew

Re: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer

Le 05/04/2019 à 21:44, Brett Cannon a écrit : > > On Fri, Apr 5, 2019 at 12:40 PM Antoine Pitrou <mailto:anto...@python.org>> wrote: > > PEP 13 says: > """ > [Core team membership] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds > posi

Re: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer

PEP 13 says: """ [Core team membership] is granted by receiving at least two-thirds positive votes in a core team vote and no veto by the steering council. """ Since both Stéphane and Stefan reached the 2/3 positive votes threshold, the only question is whether the SC decides to veto their member

Re: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer

If Stefan is willing to become a XML maintainer, it sounds like a good reason to make him core developer. Regards Antoine. Le 27/03/2019 à 10:03, Serhiy Storchaka a écrit : > I asked Stefan some questions and here is he answer. > > > 27.03.19 10:25, Stefan Behnel пише: >> Hi Serhiy! >> >> It

Re: [python-committers] Votes on new core dev candidates

Le 26/03/2019 à 09:58, M.-A. Lemburg a écrit : > >>> Asking people who have voted -1 or +1 to publicly tell the world why >>> they did so is not helpful in this respect, since it just creates bias. >>> What people, who are unsure how to vote, really need, is more >>> information, not bias. >> >>

Re: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer

Le 24/03/2019 à 22:12, Victor Stinner a écrit : > The PEP 13 defines who deserves to become a core developer: > https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0013/#membership Or here's the introductory sentence: """Here's an incomplete list of areas where contributions may be considered for joining the co

Re: [python-committers] Promote Stefan Behnel as a core developer

Le 24/03/2019 à 17:14, Serhiy Storchaka a écrit : > I propose to promote Stefan Behnel (aka scoder on the tracker and > GitHub) as a core developer. Perhaps not one from us is surprised that > he is not yet a core developer. Stefan is a core developer of Cython and > lxml, two important project

Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Stéphane Wirtel as a core dev

Le 23/03/2019 à 00:17, Victor Stinner a écrit : > Le ven. 22 mars 2019 à 22:42, Brett Cannon a écrit : >> I don't think people have to justify their vote. We don't ask that of anyone >> else in any other votes that we hold. > > Ok, I'm fine with that. > > I wanted to ask explicitly, since vote

Re: [python-committers] Vote to promote Stéphane Wirtel as a core dev

Le 22/03/2019 à 22:42, Brett Cannon a écrit : > > On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 2:14 PM Victor Stinner > wrote: > > Le ven. 22 mars 2019 à 21:56, Victor Stinner > a écrit : > > For the poll, I chose: > > > > * Type: Single C

Re: [python-committers] Last-minute request: please backport bpo-33329 fix to 3.4 and 3.5

Hi Larry, Le 02/03/2019 à 07:05, Larry Hastings a écrit : > > This bug in bpo-33329: > > https://bugs.python.org/issue33329 > > was fixed for 3.6+, but it also affects 3.4 and 3.5.  The bug is that > with newer versions of glibc--which I'm pretty sure has shipped on all > major Linux distr

Re: [python-committers] Hello!

Welcome on board Cheryl! Regards Antoine. Le 20/02/2019 à 00:05, Cheryl Sabella a écrit : > Hello everyone! > > Thank you for allowing me to join you.   All of your kind and > encouraging words on my nomination is quite overwhelming.  My goal when > I started contributing was to learn and to

Re: [python-committers] Can we choose between mailing list and discuss.python.org?

Le 13/02/2019 à 21:31, Gregory P. Smith a écrit : > > I know I can browse easily through a 161-message mailing-list or > newsgroup thread using a traditional threaded view, read what I want, > come back later to read the rest, etc.  But Discourse's linear > presentation pretty muc

Re: [python-committers] Can we choose between mailing list and discuss.python.org?

Le 13/02/2019 à 20:12, Brett Cannon a écrit : > > > On Wed, Feb 13, 2019 at 2:55 AM Paul Moore <mailto:p.f.mo...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > On Tue, 12 Feb 2019 at 22:00, Antoine Pitrou <mailto:anto...@python.org>> wrote: > > Here is a 161-messag

Re: [python-committers] Can we choose between mailing list and discuss.python.org?

Le 11/02/2019 à 20:00, Barry Warsaw a écrit : > On Feb 11, 2019, at 09:48, Victor Stinner wrote: >> >> tl; dr How can we decide if we should stop using mailing list or if we >> should stop using discuss.python.org? > > Point of order: I think we need a PEP for this decision. Such a PEP would >

Re: [python-committers] Learning from PostgreSQL community: How to address the review bottleneck

Hi Marc-André, I find this feedback very interesting :-) As PG is a sophisticated piece of high-quality software, if that process works for them, then it may deserve trying on our side as well. Regards Antoine. Le 04/02/2019 à 12:03, M.-A. Lemburg a écrit : > I've attended FOSDEM over the we

[python-committers] Duplicate ("triplicate"?) Github notifications on Roundup

Hello, For some time now, Github notifications on Roundup when a PR is open arrive three times instead of one. Is this a known issue? Regards Antoine. ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/li

Re: [python-committers] Fwd: EPS: Announcing the Guido van Rossum Core Developer Grant

Le 31/01/2019 à 11:15, M.-A. Lemburg a écrit : > FYI... perhaps you now understand why I was keen to get the committers > listed somewhere :-) Indeed! That's an interesting turn of events. Traditionally PyCon US *refused* to offer special prices for core developers, right? (I'm not sure what t

[python-committers] Election: you can change your vote

Hello, I wasn't aware, and it doesn't seem mentioned prominently in the voting system, but if you have already voted, you can still change your vote by logging in again with the original vote URL (apparently it will cast a new ballot). Nathaniel originally mentioned this on Discourse, but it wa

Re: [python-committers] "bedevere/news — News entry file name incorrectly formatted"

Le 21/01/2019 à 21:11, Ned Deily a écrit : > On Jan 21, 2019, at 15:07, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> A potential explanation: the original PR title was formatted as >> "bpo-XX : ..." (note the space before the colon). I fixed it to >> "bpo-X: ...&quo

Re: [python-committers] "bedevere/news — News entry file name incorrectly formatted"

A potential explanation: the original PR title was formatted as "bpo-XX : ..." (note the space before the colon). I fixed it to "bpo-X: ..." but the bot didn't run again. Perhaps that's related? Le 21/01/2019 à 21:05, Ned Deily a écrit : > On Jan 2

[python-committers] "bedevere/news — News entry file name incorrectly formatted"

Hello, The NEWS file check failed in a weird way here: https://github.com/python/cpython/pull/11531 Could someone take a look and find out the reason for failure? Thanks Antoine. ___ python-committers mailing list python-committers@python.org https:

Re: [python-committers] *Important*: Python governance vote (December 2018): Ballots Sent

/discuss.python.org/t/python-governance-vote-december-2018-ballots-sent/496 >>> >>> On 01/12/2018 17:59, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I'm forwarding this for the benefit of all who don't follow Discourse >>>> a

[python-committers] *Important*: Python governance vote (December 2018): Ballots Sent

Hello, I'm forwarding this for the benefit of all who don't follow Discourse actively. Regards Antoine. --- Begin Message --- Ballots have been sent for the Python governance vote described in [PEP 8001](https://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-8001/#where-is-the-vote). Invitations to vote were

Re: [python-committers] Draft ballot text

Le 30/11/2018 à 10:30, Eric V. Smith a écrit : > On 11/30/2018 3:51 AM, Nathaniel Smith wrote: >> Oh yeah, one odd thing I noticed: according to PEP 8001, the vote runs >> from Dec. 1 to Dec. 16, i.e., two weeks + two days. Is this... >> intentional? Of course 16 is a good round number, but it sti

[python-committers] A plea to stop last-minute changes to governance PEPs

Hello folks, A couple days ago Nathaniel pushed significant changes to his governance PEP (PEP 8016). This means some governance PEPs are apparently still *not* finalized. This raises a problem: when can we consider that we are reading the final version of a proposal (barring wording fixes or

Re: [python-committers] Timeline to vote for a governance PEP

Le 05/11/2018 à 23:08, Victor Stinner a écrit : > Le sam. 3 nov. 2018 à 10:39, Antoine Pitrou a écrit : >>> I'm unhappy with the "[] Further discussion" choice. We have a >>> governance crisis. Many people would like to see it resolved as soon >>> as

Re: [python-committers] Timeline to vote for a governance PEP

Le 04/11/2018 à 12:38, Paul Moore a écrit : > On Sun, 4 Nov 2018 at 00:21, Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> But let's be fair to those who have put in the effort to make this work >> so far. "Disenfranchisement" is not even close to a fair criticism. > > Frankly, I'm tired of being picked up on specifi

Re: [python-committers] Timeline to vote for a governance PEP

Le 03/11/2018 à 22:30, Tim Peters a écrit : > [Antoine] >> How does Discourse "work better", exactly? > > Several examples have already been given. You're determined to hate > it, and that's fine. That's an idiotic statement and an unwarranted personal attack. If that's all you're taking from

Re: [python-committers] Timeline to vote for a governance PEP

Le 03/11/2018 à 20:34, Tim Peters a écrit : > > This may be a clear demonstration of one way Discourse "works better": > the "conversation" we're having here is really of little value to > anyone, including to us. How does Discourse "work better", exactly? The long-winded discussion on variant

Re: [python-committers] [OT] email clients

Le 03/11/2018 à 20:15, Donald Stufft a écrit : > > I’m the other way. I basically don’t participate in python-dev or > python-ideas anymore because of the issues mailing lists have. Just a question: which tool do you use to participate in distutils-sig discussions, then? Regards Antoine.

Re: [python-committers] Timeline to vote for a governance PEP

Le 03/11/2018 à 20:07, Tim Peters a écrit : > [Antoine] You're basically forced to accept the flat discussion view, which is completely unworkable to review a long and branchy discussion. > > [Tim] >>> There are two more fundamental problems with long and branchy >>> discussions:

Re: [python-committers] [OT] email clients

Le 03/11/2018 à 19:45, Donald Stufft a écrit : > > To be honest, I’m not even sure how you’d represent some of these things > in a threaded view. For instance within discourse I can multi quote > different posts to tie multiple lines of discussion together. How would > you present that in a threa

Re: [python-committers] Timeline to vote for a governance PEP

Le 03/11/2018 à 19:41, Tim Peters a écrit : > >> You're basically forced to accept the flat discussion view, which is >> completely >> unworkable to review a long and branchy discussion. > > There are two more fundamental problems with long and branchy > discussions: they're long, and they're

Re: [python-committers] Suggestion: A PSF grant for running a "Core Dev Mentorship Program"

Le 02/11/2018 à 17:30, Victor Stinner a écrit : > >> There are much simpler and >> more approachable projects out there if they'd like to learn >> contributing to open source software. > > Exactly. This is why we fail to convert volunteer contributors to core > developers. They fly away because

Re: [python-committers] [OT] email clients

Le 03/11/2018 à 18:46, Donald Stufft a écrit : > >> On Nov 3, 2018, at 1:42 PM, Antoine Pitrou > <mailto:anto...@python.org>> wrote: >> >>> Perhaps the difference is in that every mail client I’ve ever used >>> presents mailing list threads (or any

Re: [python-committers] Timeline to vote for a governance PEP

Le 03/11/2018 à 18:26, Donald Stufft a écrit : >>> >>> Indeed.  As soon as a discussion is starting to become branchy, >>> Discourse just ruins readability compared to a normal threaded >>> discussion system.  The electoral system discussion is an example of >>> that: >>> https://discuss.python.or

Re: [python-committers] Timeline to vote for a governance PEP

Le 03/11/2018 à 16:19, Stefan Krah a écrit : > On Sat, Nov 03, 2018 at 07:22:21AM -0700, Ethan Furman wrote: >> On 11/03/2018 03:55 AM, Paul Moore wrote: >> >>> Frankly, I feel pretty disenfranchised by the process >>> at the moment. >> >> +1 > > I wouldn't go as far as disenfranchised, but just

Re: [python-committers] Timeline to vote for a governance PEP

Le 03/11/2018 à 04:40, Victor Stinner a écrit : >>> I see that the PEP 8001 is still being updated (voting method). Should >>> we still expect new changes before the vote starts? >> >> I don't detect any groundswell of opposition anymore now that the >> voting method changed. > > I'm unhappy with

Re: [python-committers] Suggestion: A PSF grant for running a "Core Dev Mentorship Program"

As a side note, I'm not against the general principle of funding some mentorship or other contribution-related activity. I'm just unsure that this would be money well spent. Regards Antoine. Le 02/11/2018 à 14:37, Antoine Pitrou a écrit : > > Le 02/11/2018 à 14:19, T

Re: [python-committers] Suggestion: A PSF grant for running a "Core Dev Mentorship Program"

Le 02/11/2018 à 14:19, Tal Einat a écrit : > > I would also like to work towards these goals. I have recently invested > more time on the core-mentorship mailing list and Zulip stream, as well > as doing my best to mentor two promising developers. However, my free > time is becoming increasingly

Re: [python-committers] Vote on governance will happen between Nov 16 - Nov 30

Le 23/10/2018 à 18:05, Tim Peters a écrit : > > [Donald Stufft mailto:don...@stufft.io>>] > > ... > I’m struggling to find a resource besides that doesn’t also include > shilling for another voting system or isn’t a lengthy paper > but https://rangevoting.org/IRVpartic.html gives

Re: [python-committers] Vote on governance will happen between Nov 16 - Nov 30

Le 23/10/2018 à 13:55, Donald Stufft a écrit : > > We’re using IRV and I accept that, but I just want to point out that IRV > still has a form vote splitting (in electoral parlance, vote splitting > is the “favorite betrayal criterion” > - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtKAScORevQ. IRV only pro

Re: [python-committers] Vote on governance will happen between Nov 16 - Nov 30

Le 23/10/2018 à 13:06, Nick Coghlan a écrit : > On Tue, 23 Oct 2018 at 06:38, Łukasz Langa wrote: >> >> The voting procedure is described in PEP 8001. I flipped it from "Draft" to >> "Active" without further changes a few minutes ago. That's in the interest >> of giving everybody enough lead ti

Re: [python-committers] Moderation of the Python community

Le 18/10/2018 à 00:06, Alex Gaynor a écrit : > I think you're dramatically overestimating a) the possibility that > someone would attempt to use the CoC process frivolously, b) the > possibility that the CoC WG would act on such a complaint without good > cause. > > FWIW I was involved in removin

Re: [python-committers] Moderation of the Python community

Le 17/10/2018 à 21:44, Brian Curtin a écrit : > > Especially given who I've now found out is on that working group, I'm > fine with them managing issues of behavior, but we should be able to > (responsible for, even) handle standard team dynamics amongst ourselves. > Maybe I was/am missing someth

Re: [python-committers] discuss.python.org participation

Le 16/10/2018 à 06:22, Benjamin Peterson a écrit : > > > On Fri, Oct 12, 2018, at 11:55, Brett Cannon wrote: >> On Thu, 11 Oct 2018 at 01:30, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> >>> >>> What concerns me is that there are several long-time and/or prominent >>&g

Re: [python-committers] PEP 8015: Organization of the Python community

Le 15/10/2018 à 12:00, Victor Stinner a écrit : > Le lun. 15 oct. 2018 à 11:35, Antoine Pitrou a écrit : >>> I don't want to put this responsibility on the board. So yes, >>> conflicts between core developers will be handled by the conduct WG. >> >> How d

Re: [python-committers] PEP 8015: Organization of the Python community

Le 15/10/2018 à 10:30, Victor Stinner a écrit : > >>> The organization of this workgroup is defined by the >>> `ConductWG Charter `_. >> >> Is this here to mean the expectation that the conduct WG will manage CoC >> issues for the core development t

Re: [python-committers] discuss.python.org participation

What concerns me is that there are several long-time and/or prominent developers who are not even registered (*) on discuss.python.org. For example Benjamin Peterson, Larry Hastings, Raymond Hettinger, Stefan Krah, Terry Reedy. I would be worried if a decision is taken without them. (*) https:/

Re: [python-committers] python-committers is dead, long live discuss.python.org

Thank you! I hadn't noticed this setting and it will be helpful. Regards Antoine. Le 09/10/2018 à 14:24, Donald Stufft a écrit : > On a specific category page, in the top right you can select a watch level > for the whole category, the two relevant ones for you will be either > “Watching” w

Re: [python-committers] python-committers is dead, long live discuss.python.org

Le 29/09/2018 à 13:55, Stefan Krah a écrit : > On Sat, Sep 29, 2018 at 12:11:12PM +0200, Antoine Pitrou wrote: >> On the more general idea of Discourse, I'm all for experimenting as I do >> agree with the advantages you mention. Like Serhiy I also like my Gmane >> work

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