Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 05.03.2016 00:40, Brett Cannon wrote: > On Fri, 4 Mar 2016 at 14:04 M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > >> Brett, >> >> I don't think that spamming all MLs, Github accounts, etc. >> with CoC notices will help anyone. >> > > Which is not what I'm suggesting nor would I want to do unless

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 06.03.2016 17:52, Ezio Melotti wrote: > On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 7:17 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: >> >> >> Python-ideas has been under the same CoC for a while now and it has been >> nothing but positive. When people know they are expected to behave in a >> civil manner and others

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 7:17 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > Python-ideas has been under the same CoC for a while now and it has been > nothing but positive. When people know they are expected to behave in a > civil manner and others know they are allowed to call someone out for

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 6 March 2016 at 06:52, Brett Cannon wrote: > > On Sat, 5 Mar 2016 at 10:58 Georg Brandl wrote: > >> >> Anyway, with the migration to Git it becomes much easier to spot and >> remind us >> of potential committers, as both author and committer info are

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 05.03.16 10:18, Ned Deily wrote: In article <20160305043104.60898b14...@webabinitio.net>, "R. David Murray" wrote: I the past few years I've monitored the bug tracker fairly closely, and watched for good prospects, and recommended or inspired the recommendation of

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

In article <20160305043104.60898b14...@webabinitio.net>, "R. David Murray" wrote: > Remember how new committers happen: current committers notice their > contributions on the tracker, suggest they be given the commit bit and > offer to mentor them, and we take a poll. The

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

> On Mar 4, 2016, at 4:07 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > I guess I'm just worried about the health of this project. I'm doing what I > can through the migration to GitHub to make it easier for others to get > involved while making it easier for us to accept the work of others,

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Fri, 04 Mar 2016 21:31:44 +, Brett Cannon wrote: > I guess I'm just worried about the health of this project. I'm doing what I > can through the migration to GitHub to make it easier for others to get > involved while making it easier for us to accept the work of others,

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 03/04/2016 04:07 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: We also still have no female or minority members. Well, I'n not female, but I am of Native American / Latino descent. So you have at least one. :) And yes, those extremely low numbers of new committers are a bit worrying. :( -- ~Ethan~

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Fri, Mar 4, 2016 at 5:07 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > When I thought about this the other week after a > cranky email to python-dev appeared I realized that the CoC isn't exactly > advertised so that people know they shouldn't act mean here like they might > in other corners of

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Fri, 4 Mar 2016 at 15:07 R. David Murray wrote: > On Fri, 04 Mar 2016 21:31:44 +, Brett Cannon wrote: > > The discussion about the Code of Conduct has sputtered out, so I'm going > to > > assume those who care to speak up have at this point. It

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 03/04/2016 03:07 PM, R. David Murray wrote: > I guess I have one more thing to say. [snip] > [*] I think it is a feeling of annoyance, like I'm being nagged for > no good reason [...] I'm inclined to agree, but some bureaucracy is the price of success. Be grateful somebody else is

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Fri, 4 Mar 2016 at 14:04 M.-A. Lemburg wrote: > Brett, > > I don't think that spamming all MLs, Github accounts, etc. > with CoC notices will help anyone. > Which is not what I'm suggesting nor would I want to do unless it's a stated change in policy so people feel properly

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Fri, 04 Mar 2016 21:31:44 +, Brett Cannon wrote: > The discussion about the Code of Conduct has sputtered out, so I'm going to > assume those who care to speak up have at this point. It seems to me that > the general agreement is that putting python-dev and

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

The discussion about the Code of Conduct has sputtered out, so I'm going to assume those who care to speak up have at this point. It seems to me that the general agreement is that putting python-dev and bugs.python.org under the CoC might not solve any real issues we currently have, but it won't

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 2 March 2016 at 05:44, R. David Murray wrote: > On Tue, 01 Mar 2016 19:00:21 +, Brett Cannon wrote: >> Now obviously I could be totally wrong and this isn't an actual barrier for >> getting women or ethnic minorities to participate in Python's

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Tue, 01 Mar 2016 19:00:21 +, Brett Cannon wrote: > I don't want this discussion to drag on forever as CoC discussions tend to, Agreed, I made my point and don't otherwise feel a need to engage in further discussion. Unless someone pushes one of my buttons, I suppose :)

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 12:36 PM, R. David Murray wrote: > > On Tue, 01 Mar 2016 04:10:08 +, Brett Cannon wrote: > > On Mon, 29 Feb 2016 at 18:01 Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > > So let me make it clear: Brett, and the other list

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 1 March 2016 at 17:36, R. David Murray wrote: > On Tue, 01 Mar 2016 04:10:08 +, Brett Cannon wrote: >> On Mon, 29 Feb 2016 at 18:01 Steven D'Aprano wrote: >> > So let me make it clear: Brett, and the other list maintainers,

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Tue, 01 Mar 2016 04:10:08 +, Brett Cannon wrote: > On Mon, 29 Feb 2016 at 18:01 Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > So let me make it clear: Brett, and the other list maintainers, you're > > not listening. Even if I'm a minority of one out of the whole

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:51 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: > Sorry, this is a huge strawman. Core developers are already very much on a > level playing field. > The intent of the CoC isn't just about protecting the current community members. It's also about making it open and

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

Le 01/03/2016 10:50, Antoine Pitrou a écrit : > > Monty Python have ridiculed militant practices and jargon in the past > (e.g. the anarcho-syndicalist commune in Holy Grail, or the various > Liberation Fronts in Life Of Brian). I'm sure if the CoC frenzy had > appeared in the 1970s they'd have

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

Le 01/03/2016 10:33, Thomas Wouters a écrit : > > On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Stefan Krah > wrote: > > Wondering what a Monty Python episode about CoCs would look like ... > > I think you're misunderstanding Monty Python's humour if

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

Thomas Wouters python.org> writes: > On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Stefan Krah bytereef.org> wrote:Wondering what a Monty Python episode about CoCs would look like ... > > I think you're misunderstanding Monty Python's humour if you think they'd have made one about the CoC :) They were very

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Tue, Mar 1, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Stefan Krah wrote: > Wondering what a Monty Python episode about CoCs would look like ... > I think you're misunderstanding Monty Python's humour if you think they'd have made one about the CoC :) They were very much for punching upward, not

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

M.-A. Lemburg egenix.com> writes: > > This particular CoC specifically addresses conference misbehavior, which is > > fine. > > The PSF CoC has a focus on community interaction, not on conferences. > It's different from eg. the PyCon US conference CoC. Consider me schooled. :) > Mix all that

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Mon, 29 Feb 2016 at 18:01 Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 03:11:25PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: > > On 28 February 2016 at 12:27, Steven D'Aprano > wrote: > > > Nobody *has* to tolerate jerks, especially on an email forum. Just > > >

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 02/29/2016 06:00 PM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: I have worked in a team where managers would apply policy changes that affected the entire team (including other managers) without a period of consultation, and it is toxic behaviour. It breeds resentment and a feeling of being pushed into the

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 03:11:25PM +1000, Nick Coghlan wrote: > On 28 February 2016 at 12:27, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > Nobody *has* to tolerate jerks, especially on an email forum. Just > > filter their emails into the trash. > > This approach means every *future*

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016 at 07:10:18PM +, Brett Cannon wrote: > On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 at 18:33 Steven D'Aprano wrote: [...] > > You could have, should > > have, waited a few days before seemingly ramming this policy change in > > behind people's backs. > > Steven, I didn't

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 02/29/2016 12:09 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote: This is the part about all this CoC talk I never understand. Why on earth would someone change their regular behavior when "at a meetup or conference that has not implemented a CoC" ? Sadly, there are plenty of people who act wildly differently

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 29.02.2016 18:38, Brett Cannon wrote: > ... If we > happen to be at a meetup or conference that has not implemented a CoC that > shouldn't give us an excuse as esteemed representatives of this language > and community to be lax in our behaviour since how we act as core devs is > probably

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Sun, 28 Feb 2016 at 23:15 Georg Brandl wrote: > On 02/28/2016 10:25 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2016, 12:02 Georg Brandl > > wrote: > > > > On 02/28/2016 08:10 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > >

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 02/28/2016 10:25 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > On Sun, Feb 28, 2016, 12:02 Georg Brandl > wrote: > > On 02/28/2016 08:10 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > Can *anyone* take it upon themselves to (let's > > say) say "Brett, you

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 02/28/2016 11:10 AM, Brett Cannon wrote: I swear that I did not mean to pull a fast one or somehow exert some influence to make this happen on the sly and I'm sorry if you thought that; I seriously thought it wasn't going to be an issue. But since it is for some I promise I won't make any

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 2/28/2016 3:56 PM, Victor Stinner wrote: Hi, 2016-02-26 20:29 GMT+01:00 Brett Cannon : I noticed that the devguide didn't explicitly mention that core developers were expected to follow the PSF CoC (https://docs.python.org/devguide/coredev.html and

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Sun, Feb 28, 2016, 12:02 Georg Brandl wrote: > On 02/28/2016 08:10 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > Can *anyone* take it upon themselves to (let's > > say) say "Brett, you unilaterally changed the policy with no > discussion > > or consultation and just four minutes

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 02/28/2016 08:10 PM, Brett Cannon wrote: > Can *anyone* take it upon themselves to (let's > say) say "Brett, you unilaterally changed the policy with no discussion > or consultation and just four minutes notice. That is unspeakably rude > and total jerk behaviour, so under your

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Sat, 27 Feb 2016 at 18:33 Steven D'Aprano wrote: > On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 05:17:50PM +, Brett Cannon wrote: > > [...] > > After a rather rude email on python-dev > > I haven't noticed this email. Care to link to it? We should be allowed > to see what sort of

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On 28 February 2016 at 12:27, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Nobody *has* to tolerate jerks, especially on an email forum. Just > filter their emails into the trash. This approach means every *future* participant in that community then has to encounter the person that's behaving

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 05:17:50PM +, Brett Cannon wrote: [...] > After a rather rude email on python-dev I haven't noticed this email. Care to link to it? We should be allowed to see what sort of behaviour is likely to treated as officially unacceptable in the future. I think this is

Re: [python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

Brett Cannon python.org> writes: > I noticed that the devguide didn't explicitly mention that core developers were expected to follow the PSF CoC (https://docs.python.org/devguide/coredev.html and https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/, respectively). I have opened 

[python-committers] Making the PSF CoC apply to core developers

I noticed that the devguide didn't explicitly mention that core developers were expected to follow the PSF CoC ( https://docs.python.org/devguide/coredev.html and https://www.python.org/psf/codeofconduct/, respectively). I have opened http://bugs.python.org/issue26446 to make sure it gets