On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:44 PM, David Cournapeau wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:49 AM, Paul Moore wrote:
>> 2009/10/20 Chris Withers :
>> There are many (I believe) Windows users for whom bdist_wininst is
>> just what they want. For those people, where's the incentive to switch
>> in what yo
On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 5:49 AM, Paul Moore wrote:
> 2009/10/20 Chris Withers :
>> I wouldn't have a problem if integrating with the windows package manager
>> was an optional extra, but I think it's one of many types of package
>> management that need to be worried about, so might be easier to ge
On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:49:42 +0100, Paul Moore wrote:
> Can I repeat that in big letters? The key is a SINGLE DISTRIBUTION
FORMAT.
ok - but that pretty much exists..
> If you can persuade everyone to accept a format which ignores clearly
> stated user requirements, go for it. But if you can't,
2009/10/20 Chris Withers :
> I wouldn't have a problem if integrating with the windows package manager
> was an optional extra, but I think it's one of many types of package
> management that need to be worried about, so might be easier to get the
> others working and let anyone who wants anything
Chris Withers wrote:
[following up on distutils-sig]
...FAIL, sorry for the noise.
Chris
--
Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting
- http://www.simplistix.co.uk
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[following up on distutils-sig]
Michael Foord wrote:
Many Windows users would be quite happy if the standard mechanism for
installing non-source distributions on Windows was via the wininst
binaries.
...and many users may not be ;-) I know I'd be extremely unhappy if that
were the case as I
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Tarek Ziadé wrote:
> = Virtualenv and the multiple version support in Distribute =
>
> (I am not saying "We" here because this part was not discussed yet
> with everyone)
>
> Virtualenv allows you to create an isolated environment to install
> some
>> My opinion is that this tool exists only because Python doesn't
>> support the installation of multiple versions for the same
>> distributions.
>
> This is not at all how I use virtualenv. For me virtualenv is a
> sandbox so that I don't have to become root whenever I need to install
> a Python
On Fri, 09 Oct 2009 17:49:23 +0100, Michael Foord
> I wonder if it is going to be possible to make this compatible with the
> upcoming distutils package management 'stuff' (querying for installed
> packages, uninstallation etc) since installation/uninstallation goes
> through the Windows system
On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Steven Bethard
wrote:
>> I am working with Tarek to keep Windows issues (and in particular this
>> one) on the agenda. It's quite hard at times, as getting a
>> representative sample of Windows users' preferences/requirements is
>> difficult at best (Windows users
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 2:56 PM, Paul Moore wrote:
> In this context, eggs are "merely" the first (and most important)
[..]
> example of a format extension, and so should drive the development of
> a standard.
>
> To summarise:
>
> I believe that we need a statement of direction on the (zipped) egg
On Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Paul Moore wrote:
> 2009/10/9 Michael Foord :
>> Many Windows users would be quite happy if the standard mechanism for
>> installing non-source distributions on Windows was via the wininst binaries.
>
> +1 I'm one of those people.
+1 on installing packages on Wind
2009/10/9 Michael Foord :
> Many Windows users would be quite happy if the standard mechanism for
> installing non-source distributions on Windows was via the wininst binaries.
+1 I'm one of those people.
> I wonder if it is going to be possible to make this compatible with the
> upcoming distuti
Probably all these discussions are better on distutils-sig (just
copying python-dev to note the movement of the discussion)
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 11:49 AM, Michael Foord
wrote:
>> Outside of binaries on Windows, I'm still unsure if installing eggs
>> serves a useful purpose. I'm not sure if egg
Ian Bicking wrote:
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Paul Moore wrote:
2009/10/9 Antoine Pitrou :
Ian Bicking colorstudy.com> writes:
Someone mentioned that easy_install provided some things pip didn't;
outside of multi-versioned installs (which I'm not very enthusiastic
about)
I'm crossposting to continue on distutils.
Ian Bicking a écrit :
> On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 3:54 AM, kiorky wrote:
> Well, if multi-versioned installs were deprecated, it would not be
> necessary to use Setuptools' style of script generation. Instead you
> could simply dereference the entry point,
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 7:32 AM, Paul Moore wrote:
> 2009/10/9 Antoine Pitrou :
>> Ian Bicking colorstudy.com> writes:
>>>
>>> Someone mentioned that easy_install provided some things pip didn't;
>>> outside of multi-versioned installs (which I'm not very enthusiastic
>>> about) I'm not sure what
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 3:54 AM, kiorky wrote:
>> If I had my way, buildout would use virtualenv and throw away its
>> funny script generation. If virtualenv had existed before buildout
>
> Which one, the one provided to generate scripts from entry points with the
> *.egg
> recipes or the bin/bui
Paul Moore wrote:
2009/10/9 Antoine Pitrou :
Ian Bicking colorstudy.com> writes:
Someone mentioned that easy_install provided some things pip didn't;
outside of multi-versioned installs (which I'm not very enthusiastic
about) I'm not sure what this is?
http://pip.openplans.org/
2009/10/9 Antoine Pitrou :
> Ian Bicking colorstudy.com> writes:
>>
>> Someone mentioned that easy_install provided some things pip didn't;
>> outside of multi-versioned installs (which I'm not very enthusiastic
>> about) I'm not sure what this is?
>
> http://pip.openplans.org/#differences-from-ea
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 3:22 AM, Ian Bicking wrote:
> I'm coming in late and breaking threading, but wanted to reply to
> Tarek's original email:
>
>> - easy_install is going to be deprecated ! use Pip !
>
> Cool! I wouldn't have written pip if I didn't think it would improve
> substantially on ea
Ian Bicking a écrit :
> I'm coming in late and breaking threading, but wanted to reply to
> Tarek's original email:
>
> This is verifiable, stable, and to varying degrees concrete
> (virtualenv being more concrete than buildout, which tends more
> towards the declarative).
Is that a friday troll
I'm coming in late and breaking threading, but wanted to reply to
Tarek's original email:
> - easy_install is going to be deprecated ! use Pip !
Cool! I wouldn't have written pip if I didn't think it would improve
substantially on easy_install.
Incidentally (because I know people get really ent
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 1:11 AM, kiorky wrote:
>
>
> Tarek Ziadé a écrit :
>
>> The choice to deprecate easy_install in 0.7 is done because the Pip project
>> is not far to meet all uses cases easy_install users have, and we're betting
>> on the fact that Pip is active and will be much more advance
Tarek Ziadé a écrit :
> The choice to deprecate easy_install in 0.7 is done because the Pip project
> is not far to meet all uses cases easy_install users have, and we're betting
> on the fact that Pip is active and will be much more advanced that what
> we could do with a 'new' refactored easy_
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:28 PM, Ned Deily wrote:
[..]
> So, without some other intervention, users will continue to follow the
> instructions with those hundreds of packages (or on those thousands of
> websites) and manually or automatically try to install setuptools.
I think this will be in the
In article ,
Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Ned Deily acm.org> writes:
> > How to decide on and then effectively
> > communicate that direction is not at all trivial, I think.
>
> I think it's quite trivial actually. Since everybody agrees (except perhaps
> PJE)
> that Distribute should replace setu
In article
<94bdd2610910080131j323b98d9i871bce43465f2...@mail.gmail.com>,
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
> Here's a quick summary of the main things that are going to happen in
> Distutils, and Distribute, and a few words on virtualenv and pip.
> (there is much much more work going on, but I don't want to d
2009/10/8 Tarek Ziadé :
>> The egg format
>>
>> One thing missing from your roadmap (unless I missed it) is the fate
>> of the egg (zipfile) format. If it's to remain a valid option
>> (bdist_egg and the like) then I'd assume that Distribute needs to be
>> the place to develop it.
>> One thing it w
On Thu, 08 Oct 2009 06:52:57 -0700, Michael Foord
wrote:
I don't recall ever having wanted / needed to install multiple versions
of the same library - whilst I can appreciate that it *can* be a real
issue it has never been a problem for me.
Multiple versions is going to be a mess. It is
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 05:30:00PM +0100, Michael Foord wrote:
> Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
>> On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 02:52:24PM +0200, Simon Cross wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
>>>
= Virtualenv and the multiple version support in Distribute =
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 04:28:52PM +, Antoine Pitrou wrote:
> Toshio Kuratomi gmail.com> writes:
> >
> > This is needing to install multiple versions and use the newly installed
> > version for testing.
> [...]
>
> What you're missing is that having separate environments has a virtue of
> cl
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 06:56:19PM +0200, kiorky wrote:
>
>
> Toshio Kuratomi a écrit :
> >
> > Also note, the ability to have multiple versions makes things easier for
> > system packagers and provides an easy alternative to a virtualenv for
> > end-users.
> >
> > * System packagers: virtualen
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 4:55 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>> OTOH, the register command sends the meta-data directly to
>> the PyPI database, so it doesn't even need another file
>> for storing away the meta data.
>>
>> Unless I'm missing something important (which I probably am),
On 8 Oct 2009, at 19:22 , David Cournapeau wrote:
This is not true - stow solves the problem in a more general way (in
the sense that it is not restricted to python), at least on platforms
which support softlink.
I was, of course, talking about "pure" Python solutions (but I should
indeed have
On Fri, Oct 9, 2009 at 1:35 AM, Masklinn wrote:
> On 8 Oct 2009, at 18:17 , Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
>>
>>> This is not at all how I use virtualenv. For me virtualenv is a
>>> sandbox so that I don't have to become root whenever I need to install
>>> a Python package for testing purposes
>>
>> This
Toshio Kuratomi a écrit :
> On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 01:27:57PM +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>> Tarek Ziadé a écrit :
But if PEP 376 and PEP 386 support are added in Python, we're not far
from being able to provide multiple version support with
the help of importlib.
>> Before putti
Toshio Kuratomi a écrit :
> On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 01:27:57PM +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>> Tarek Ziadé a écrit :
But if PEP 376 and PEP 386 support are added in Python, we're not far
from being able to provide multiple version support with
the help of importlib.
>> Before putti
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 4:55 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> OTOH, the register command sends the meta-data directly to
> the PyPI database, so it doesn't even need another file
> for storing away the meta data.
>
> Unless I'm missing something important (which I probably am),
> the only added value of
On 8 Oct 2009, at 18:17 , Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
This is not at all how I use virtualenv. For me virtualenv is a
sandbox so that I don't have to become root whenever I need to
install
a Python package for testing purposes
This is needing to install multiple versions and use the newly
insta
On 8 Oct 2009, at 18:17 , Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
This is not at all how I use virtualenv. For me virtualenv is a
sandbox so that I don't have to become root whenever I need to
install
a Python package for testing purposes
This is needing to install multiple versions and use the newly
ins
Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 02:52:24PM +0200, Simon Cross wrote:
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
= Virtualenv and the multiple version support in Distribute =
...
My opinion is that this tool exists only because Python doesn't
suppo
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 02:52:24PM +0200, Simon Cross wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
> > = Virtualenv and the multiple version support in Distribute =
> ...
> > My opinion is that this tool exists only because Python doesn't
> > support the installation of multiple v
On Thu, Oct 08, 2009 at 01:27:57PM +0200, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
> > Tarek Ziadé a écrit :
> >> But if PEP 376 and PEP 386 support are added in Python, we're not far
> >> from being able to provide multiple version support with
> >> the help of importlib.
>
> Before putting much work into this: do y
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 9:52 AM, Michael Foord wrote:
> Simon Cross wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Tarek Ziadé
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> = Virtualenv and the multiple version support in Distribute =
>>>
>>
>> ...
>>
>>>
>>> My opinion is that this tool exists only because Python doesn't
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:27 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>>
== The fate of setup.py, and static metadata ==
So we are going to separate the metadata description from setup.py, in
a static configuration file, that can be open and read by anyone
without
On Oct 8, 2009, at 4:31 AM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
- no more namespaced packages system, if PEP 381 (namespaces package
support) makes it to 2.7
Make that PEP 382:
http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0382/
-Barry
PGP.sig
Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Simon Cross wrote:
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
= Virtualenv and the multiple version support in Distribute =
...
My opinion is that this tool exists only because Python doesn't
support the installation of multiple versions for the same
distributions.
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 1:27 PM, M.-A. Lemburg wrote:
>
>>> == The fate of setup.py, and static metadata ==
>>>
>>> So we are going to separate the metadata description from setup.py, in
>>> a static configuration file, that can be open and read by anyone
>>> without
>>> running any code. The only
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
> = Virtualenv and the multiple version support in Distribute =
...
> My opinion is that this tool exists only because Python doesn't
> support the installation of multiple versions for the same
> distributions.
This is not at all how I use vir
Le Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:27:57 +0200, M.-A. Lemburg a écrit :
>
> This sounds a lot like DLL- or RPM-hell to me.
>
> I think it's much better to keep things simple and under user control,
> e.g. by encouraging use of virtualenv-like setups and perhaps adding
> better native support for these to Pyt
Hello,
Thanks for the summary :)
[Distribute 0.7]
> - easy_install is going to be deprecated ! use Pip !
Apparently there are a couple of things Pip doesn't support:
« It cannot install from eggs. It only installs from source. (Maybe this
will be changed sometime, but it’s low priority.) »
«
I have just a few comments to make, so I'm trimming the long quote
a bit...
> Tarek Ziadé a écrit :
>> == Version comparison ==
>>
>> One very important point: we will not force the community to use the
>> scheme described in PEP 386, but *there is* already a
>> de-facto convention on version sche
Tarek Ziadé a écrit :
> Here's a quick summary of the main things that are going to happen in
> Distutils, and Distribute, and a few words on virtualenv and pip.
> (there is much much more work going on, but I don't want to drown
> people with details)
>
> = Distutils =
>
> Distutils is a packa
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 11:42 AM, David Cournapeau wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
>
>> = Virtualenv and the multiple version support in Distribute =
>>
>> (I am not saying "We" here because this part was not discussed yet
>> with everyone)
>>
>> Virtualenv allows you t
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 5:31 PM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
> = Virtualenv and the multiple version support in Distribute =
>
> (I am not saying "We" here because this part was not discussed yet
> with everyone)
>
> Virtualenv allows you to create an isolated environment to install
> some distribution wit
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Paul Moore wrote:
>
> +1
>
> This addresses my biggest concern with the way PEP 376 was going
> (largely prompted by my suggestions, so I'll take the blame for this!)
> which was that PEP 376 was trying to define list/uninstall methods for
> package formats (i.e. z
2009/10/8 Tarek Ziadé :
> Here's a quick summary of the main things that are going to happen in
> Distutils, and Distribute, and a few words on virtualenv and pip.
> (there is much much more work going on, but I don't want to drown
> people with details)
Thanks for this summary. The overview was g
Here's a quick summary of the main things that are going to happen in
Distutils, and Distribute, and a few words on virtualenv and pip.
(there is much much more work going on, but I don't want to drown
people with details)
= Distutils =
Distutils is a package manager and competes with OS package
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