Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-07 Thread Mario Figueiredo
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 21:09:24 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote: > >there was a time (maybe times, I don't remember) when >Microsoft tried hard to require "managed code" everywhere (aka ".NET >runtime only"), and the push-back was so strong that they had to >abandon the requirement. But somehow, people ac

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-06 Thread Thomas Rachel
Am 26.02.2015 01:37 schrieb Chris Angelico: My bad. I was talking in a context of Python programming, specifically with APIs where you would use some kind of true/false flag as either a function parameter or a return value. Oh. Then take subprocess.Popen.wait()... :-P Thomas -- https://mail.

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-06 Thread Christian Gollwitzer
Am 06.03.15 um 19:15 schrieb Marko Rauhamaa: > llanitedave : > >> It's obvious that's what's needed here is a PEP requiring that the >> International Phonetic Alphabet be used for all Python identifiers and >> keywords. > > You're onto something: ROFL!!! Though I'd prefer a few identifiers in a d

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-06 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
llanitedave : > It's obvious that's what's needed here is a PEP requiring that the > International Phonetic Alphabet be used for all Python identifiers and > keywords. You're onto something: #!/ˈjuːzəɹ/bɪn/ɛnv ˈpaɪˌθɑːn3 #

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-06 Thread llanitedave
On Friday, March 6, 2015 at 2:03:42 AM UTC-8, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Rustom Mody : > > > I really dont understand what we are communicating (or not) about... > > > > Can you hear my accent? > > If we met at a Python conference, I would hear it and hopefully even > understand it. > > > But more

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-06 Thread alister
On Fri, 06 Mar 2015 08:31:40 +, Mark Lawrence wrote: > On 06/03/2015 08:00, Rustom Mody wrote: >> On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 10:49:54 AM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa >> wrote: >>> Rustom Mody: >>> You keep talking of accent. At first I thought you were using the word figuratively or e

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-06 Thread Steve Hayes
On Fri, 6 Mar 2015 00:00:28 -0800 (PST), Rustom Mody wrote: >On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 10:49:54 AM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> Rustom Mody: >> >> > You keep talking of accent. >> > At first I thought you were using the word figuratively or else joking. >> > Im now beginning to wonder

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-06 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
Mark Lawrence : > British accent, Christmas is early this year so ho, ho, ho. Nobody in > this country ever guesses where I was born and bred, they all think > I'm from the South West or the West Country. Irish, Scottish, Welsh, > English alone are different. Most foreigners wouldn't have a dog's

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-06 Thread Chris Angelico
On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 5:58 PM, Jonas Wielicki wrote: > On 01.03.2015 03:43, Chris Angelico wrote: >> Imagine if all >> your Python code ran twice as fast (that's slightly better than the >> IronPython figure quoted!), but worked only on BSD Unix and Mac OS. Is >> that something that'll make a fle

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-06 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
Rustom Mody : > I really dont understand what we are communicating (or not) about... > > Can you hear my accent? If we met at a Python conference, I would hear it and hopefully even understand it. > But more to the point its still not clear (to me) whether you are objecting to > - to Mark > - to

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-06 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 06/03/2015 08:00, Rustom Mody wrote: On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 10:49:54 AM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: Rustom Mody: You keep talking of accent. At first I thought you were using the word figuratively or else joking. Im now beginning to wonder if you mean it literally. If so have you

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-06 Thread Rustom Mody
On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 10:49:54 AM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Rustom Mody: > > > You keep talking of accent. > > At first I thought you were using the word figuratively or else joking. > > Im now beginning to wonder if you mean it literally. > > If so have you patented a new AOIP pro

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-05 Thread Jonas Wielicki
On 01.03.2015 03:43, Chris Angelico wrote: > Imagine if all > your Python code ran twice as fast (that's slightly better than the > IronPython figure quoted!), but worked only on BSD Unix and Mac OS. Is > that something that'll make a fledgling language succeed? I heard that Swift and Objective

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-05 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 05/03/2015 03:38, Rustom Mody wrote: On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 1:03:13 AM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: Steven D'Aprano: Care to enlighten us then? Because your anecdote doesn't appear to have even the most tenuous relationship to this discussion. Even more important, when you talk

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-05 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
Steve Hayes : > On Wed, 04 Mar 2015 21:33:01 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa >>English-speaker, when you name things in your Python programs, you had >>better stick to American spellings. >> >>Even more important, when you talk about Python or other computer stuff >>to a non-English-speaker, try to emulate

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-05 Thread Steve Hayes
On Wed, 04 Mar 2015 21:33:01 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >Steven D'Aprano : > >> Care to enlighten us then? Because your anecdote doesn't appear to >> have even the most tenuous relationship to this discussion. > >English-speaker, when you name things in your Python programs, you had >better sti

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-05 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
Mario Figueiredo : > If instead you prefer to demand british people to speak in your > accent, because you are in your country I'm in Finland, mind you. Finnish (the Häme dialect, specifically) is my native language. I'm not suggesting my international coworkers should address me in my language,

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-05 Thread Mario Figueiredo
On Thu, 05 Mar 2015 07:19:42 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > >Where I work, people do use voice still occasionally to communicate. > Communications skills... the bane of any software developer. Pronunciation is just another obstacle to cross on top of the natural barrier that is transmitting compl

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
Rustom Mody : > You keep talking of accent. > At first I thought you were using the word figuratively or else joking. > Im now beginning to wonder if you mean it literally. > If so have you patented a new AOIP protocol? > If not do you give tuitions¹ in ESP/telepathy/Voodoo? I'll be happy to > pay

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Rustom Mody
On Thursday, March 5, 2015 at 1:03:13 AM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Steven D'Aprano: > > > Care to enlighten us then? Because your anecdote doesn't appear to > > have even the most tenuous relationship to this discussion. > > Even more important, when you talk about Python or other compute

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Tim Delaney
On 5 March 2015 at 09:39, Emile van Sebille wrote: > On 3/4/2015 12:40 PM, Tim Delaney wrote: > >> A related thing is when you have multiple multi-lingual people talking >> together where at least two of their languages match (or are close >> enough for most uses e.g. Spanish and Portuguese). The

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Emile van Sebille
On 3/4/2015 12:40 PM, Tim Delaney wrote: A related thing is when you have multiple multi-lingual people talking together where at least two of their languages match (or are close enough for most uses e.g. Spanish and Portuguese). They'll slip in and out of multiple languages depending on which be

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Tim Delaney
On 5 March 2015 at 07:11, Steven D'Aprano < steve+comp.lang.pyt...@pearwood.info> wrote: > > As for your comments about spoken accents, I sympathise. But changing > accents is very hard for most people (although a very few people find it > incredibly easy). Even professionals typically need to hav

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-04 Thread Christian Gollwitzer
Am 04.03.15 um 00:12 schrieb Chris Angelico: > The problems come from needing more than two components at each step, > like with string formatting. You could write it like this: > > "Hello, %s from %s!" % name % location > > but then it'd be really hard to track down errors - the modulo > operato

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 04/03/2015 19:33, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: Steven D'Aprano : Care to enlighten us then? Because your anecdote doesn't appear to have even the most tenuous relationship to this discussion. English-speaker, when you name things in your Python programs, you had better stick to American spellings

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Steven D'Aprano
Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Steven D'Aprano : > >> Care to enlighten us then? Because your anecdote doesn't appear to >> have even the most tenuous relationship to this discussion. > > English-speaker, when you name things in your Python programs, you had > better stick to American spellings. > > E

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
Steven D'Aprano : > Care to enlighten us then? Because your anecdote doesn't appear to > have even the most tenuous relationship to this discussion. English-speaker, when you name things in your Python programs, you had better stick to American spellings. Even more important, when you talk about

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Ethan Furman
On 03/04/2015 11:14 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > > [...] > > > Wow -- a new level of succinctness! ;) -- ~Ethan~ signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Steven D'Aprano
Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > llanitedave : > >> Seems the ultimate in irony when a language invented by a Dutchman and >> named after a British comedy troupe gets bogged down in an argument >> about whether its users are sufficiently "American". > > No, the ultimate irony is that people don't underst

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
Mario Figueiredo : > Care to summarize then? > > Because the one thing I'm seeing is your assertion that people should > write identifiers in a more standard way following an us-eng dialect > and you jab at the British by accusing them of being more resistant to > this than non-english speakers (w

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Rustom Mody
On Wednesday, March 4, 2015 at 6:46:32 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > llanitedave : > > > Seems the ultimate in irony when a language invented by a Dutchman and > > named after a British comedy troupe gets bogged down in an argument > > about whether its users are sufficiently "American". >

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Mario Figueiredo
On Wed, 04 Mar 2015 15:16:18 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > >No, the ultimate irony is that people don't understand what is being >talked about. > Care to summarize then? Because the one thing I'm seeing is your assertion that people should write identifiers in a more standard way following an

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-04 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
llanitedave : > Seems the ultimate in irony when a language invented by a Dutchman and > named after a British comedy troupe gets bogged down in an argument > about whether its users are sufficiently "American". No, the ultimate irony is that people don't understand what is being talked about. R

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-03 Thread llanitedave
Seems the ultimate in irony when a language invented by a Dutchman and named after a British comedy troupe gets bogged down in an argument about whether its users are sufficiently "American". -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-03 Thread Chris Angelico
On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 9:46 AM, Christian Gollwitzer wrote: > I can agree with the argument that operator precedence can make > problems; e.g. this > > cout< > does not output the truth value of a==b, but instead outputs a and > compares the stream to b (which will usually fail to compile,

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-03 Thread Christian Gollwitzer
Am 03.03.15 um 12:12 schrieb Chris Angelico: > On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Christian Gollwitzer wrote: > >> Are you trying to pick on C++ streams? I could never understand why >> anybody has problems with an arrow << that means "put into the left >> thing" instead of "shift the bits to the lef

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-03 Thread Antoon Pardon
Op 02-03-15 om 15:39 schreef Steven D'Aprano: > Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > >> alister : >> >>> or as another analogy why don't you (Marco) try telling a Barber in >>> Seville that he should be speaking Latin Spanish not that strange >>> variation he uses? >> If the barber conference language were Lati

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-03 Thread alister
On Tue, 03 Mar 2015 03:00:30 -0800, Rustom Mody wrote: > I dont understand what you are saying. > Lets say you replace 'conservative' by something more definitively > pejorative eg fundamentalist, backward etc Now replace 'American > society' by 'Nazi Germany' finally we can call Godwins on this

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-03 Thread Jon Ribbens
On 2015-03-03, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Jon Ribbens wrote: >> On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: >>> A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street >> >> If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American >> equivalent second, then I'm afraid the first one is misleadin

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-03 Thread Jon Ribbens
On 2015-03-03, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > On Mon, 2 Mar 2015 17:12:24 + (UTC), Jon Ribbens > declaimed the following: >>On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: >>> A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street >> >>If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-03 Thread Chris Angelico
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 7:51 PM, Christian Gollwitzer wrote: > Am 28.02.15 um 02:44 schrieb Chris Angelico: >> On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 12:32 PM, wrote: >>> For example, I've seen someone create a Socket class, then created an >>> operator overload that allowed you to "add" a string to your socke

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-03 Thread Rustom Mody
On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 at 10:02:30 AM UTC+5:30, Mario Figueiredo wrote: > On Mon, 2 Mar 2015 19:51:31 -0800 (PST), Rustom Mody wrote: > > > >I dont know what you are saying Mario or even whom you are addressing > > I was replying directly to Marko. I don't think it is possible to > establish a

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-03 Thread Gregory Ewing
Chris Angelico wrote: And I've seen a number of proposals to build Python with its *keywords* localized. While there is a reasonable limit to this (for instance, I wouldn't expect the disassembly of CPython byte-code to have "STORE_FAST" translated into another language), there's nothing wrong wi

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-03 Thread Sturla Molden
Mark Lawrence wrote: >> I can assure you that in a veterinary sence, Yersey cows will produce a >> milk with higher fat content. > > Yersey? Eh, Jersey. -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-03 Thread Christian Gollwitzer
Am 28.02.15 um 02:44 schrieb Chris Angelico: > On Sat, Feb 28, 2015 at 12:32 PM, wrote: >> For example, I've seen someone create a Socket class, then created an >> operator overload that allowed you to "add" a string to your socket to make >> the socket send the string, with the result being a

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Steven D'Aprano
Chris Angelico wrote: > And I've seen a number of proposals to build Python with its > keywords localized. ChinesePython: http://www.chinesepython.org/english/english.html Teuton: http://www.fiber-space.de/EasyExtend/doc/teuton/teuton.htm -- Steve -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listin

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 03/03/2015 04:04, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: On Mon, 2 Mar 2015 17:12:24 + (UTC), Jon Ribbens declaimed the following: On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the America

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Chris Angelico
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 6:05 PM, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Chris Angelico : > >> Aye, but that's only an issue if you use more than one. You're most >> welcome to use "colour" in a project, just be consistent. > > Or "Farbe" or "couleur" or "väri" or... > > I *have* seen code like that. And I've see

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
Chris Angelico : > Aye, but that's only an issue if you use more than one. You're most > welcome to use "colour" in a project, just be consistent. Or "Farbe" or "couleur" or "väri" or... I *have* seen code like that. Marko -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Chris Angelico
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 4:40 PM, Gregory Ewing wrote: > Chris Angelico wrote: >> >> You want to >> use "colour" instead of "color"? Also not a problem, and should be >> easy enough for someone to understand who normally spells it the other >> way. > > > It's not a matter of failing to understand, i

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Gregory Ewing
Sturla Molden wrote: I can assure you that in a veterinary sence, Yersey cows will produce a milk with higher fat content. There, "a milk" is really an abbreviation for "a type of milk". But people who talk about "a code" don't mean "a type of code", they're using it the way we would say "a pr

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Gregory Ewing
Steven D'Aprano wrote: "please hand all monies to the bursar", I think that's another case of an implied unit, the unit in this case being the money involved in one transaction. but it would be weird to say "please hand five monies to the bursar". It would, but I'm not sure I could explain

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Gregory Ewing
Chris Angelico wrote: You want to use "colour" instead of "color"? Also not a problem, and should be easy enough for someone to understand who normally spells it the other way. It's not a matter of failing to understand, it's about having more than one spelling of an identifier around imposing

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Steven D'Aprano
MRAB wrote: > There might be a difference, like that between "this program contains a > bug" and "this program contains one bug". Those two sentences mean exactly the same thing in standard American, British and Australian English. Pedants can argue whether "one bug" means *exactly* one bug, n

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread Steven D'Aprano
Jon Ribbens wrote: > On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: >> A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street > > If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American > equivalent second, then I'm afraid the first one is misleading and the > other two are just nonsense. Unf

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
Dennis Lee Bieber : >>On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: >>> A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street > > Not based on some of what I found in York while on TDY... Where the > entries to the old town -- what an American might call a gate -- were all > named bar, and the str

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Mario Figueiredo
On Mon, 2 Mar 2015 19:51:31 -0800 (PST), Rustom Mody wrote: > >I dont know what you are saying Mario or even whom you are addressing I was replying directly to Marko. I don't think it is possible to establish a standard dialect for variable names in English or any other language. It doesn't even

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Ben Finney
Rustom Mody writes: > And among these people, if they are faithful to their own calling, to > their own vocation, and to their own message from God, communication > on the deepest level is possible. And the deepest level of > communication is not communication, but communion. It is wordless. It >

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Rustom Mody
On Tuesday, March 3, 2015 at 8:21:53 AM UTC+5:30, Mario Figueiredo wrote: > On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 17:30:42 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > > >Steven D'Aprano: > > > >> But for Britons to use American English is, in a way, to cease to be > >> Britons at all. > > > >Did Hugh Laurie have to turn in his

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Mario Figueiredo
On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 17:30:42 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >Steven D'Aprano : > >> But for Britons to use American English is, in a way, to cease to be >> Britons at all. > >Did Hugh Laurie have to turn in his British passport? The concepts behind an actor performing and a programmer programming

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread MRAB
On 2015-03-03 01:44, Mark Lawrence wrote: On 03/03/2015 00:23, Sturla Molden wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: Variations in idiom and spelling are a good thing. They open our minds to new possibilities, remind us that we aren't all the same, and keep life fresh. I remember the first time I reali

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 03/03/2015 00:23, Sturla Molden wrote: Steven D'Aprano wrote: Variations in idiom and spelling are a good thing. They open our minds to new possibilities, remind us that we aren't all the same, and keep life fresh. I remember the first time I realised that when Indians talk about "a code" t

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Steven D'Aprano
Sturla Molden wrote: > Steven D'Aprano wrote: > >> Variations in idiom and spelling are a good thing. They open our minds to >> new possibilities, remind us that we aren't all the same, and keep life >> fresh. I remember the first time I realised that when Indians talk about >> "a code" they are

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Sturla Molden
Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Variations in idiom and spelling are a good thing. They open our minds to > new possibilities, remind us that we aren't all the same, and keep life > fresh. I remember the first time I realised that when Indians talk about "a > code" they aren't using "wrong English", the

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Gregory Ewing
Steven D'Aprano wrote: I remember the first time I realised that when Indians talk about "a code" they aren't using "wrong English", they are using a regional variation. I don't think this is confined to Indians. I've noticed that people from a Fortran scientific-computing background tend to us

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread Jon Ribbens
On 2015-03-02, sohcahto...@gmail.com wrote: > On Monday, March 2, 2015 at 9:13:21 AM UTC-8, Jon Ribbens wrote: >> On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: >> >A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street >> >> If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American >> equiv

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 01/03/2015 17:52, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: Mark Lawrence : On 01/03/2015 17:01, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: What you (or I) speak in our native surroundings is up to you (and me). However, when I exhange software engineering ideas with you, I wish both of us could stick to American English. Well

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread sohcahtoa82
On Monday, March 2, 2015 at 9:13:21 AM UTC-8, Jon Ribbens wrote: > On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > > A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street > > If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American > equivalent second, then I'm afraid the first one is misl

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread Jon Ribbens
On 2015-03-02, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > A pub's a bar; a bar's a gate; a gate's a street If each of those is supposed to be English first and then the American equivalent second, then I'm afraid the first one is misleading and the other two are just nonsense. -- https://mail.python.org/m

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread alister
On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 08:25:40 -0800, Travis Griggs wrote: > seems like the very smallest of our worries. "There is no egg in eggplant" What the blood heck is eggplant? oh wait you mean aubergine this page is clearly about American English. We are even more obtuse, it stops Johnnie Foreigner kn

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread Travis Griggs
> On Mar 1, 2015, at 5:53 PM, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > > On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 20:16:26 + (UTC), alister > declaimed the following: > >> >> The language is called English, the clue is in the name. interestingly >> most 'Brits' can switch between American English & English without too >>

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Joel Goldstick
I like "Old Tricks". I learn lots of British english idioms. I'm from NYC On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 10:45 AM, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:39 AM, Steven D'Aprano > wrote: >> Whereas the comparatively small differences between British and American >> English are all the more imp

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Chris Angelico
On Tue, Mar 3, 2015 at 1:39 AM, Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Whereas the comparatively small differences between British and American > English are all the more important because they distinguish the two. Nobody > is ever going to mistake Finland and the Finish people for Americans, even > if you lear

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 02/03/2015 15:32, alister wrote: On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:19:45 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: alister : or as another analogy why don't you (Marco) try telling a Barber in Seville that he should be speaking Latin Spanish not that strange variation he uses? If the barber conference language

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread alister
On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 14:19:45 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > alister : > >> or as another analogy why don't you (Marco) try telling a Barber in >> Seville that he should be speaking Latin Spanish not that strange >> variation he uses? > > If the barber conference language were Latin, and some Spa

Re: (Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
Steven D'Aprano : > Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> Similarly, I've heard some Finnish representatives in the Nordic >> Council complain how the Danish insist on speaking Danish. The >> official language there is Swedish. > > I'm reminded of the British Prime Minister David Lloyd George, who > apparently

(Still OT) Nationalism, language and monoculture [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-02 Thread Steven D'Aprano
Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > alister : > >> or as another analogy why don't you (Marco) try telling a Barber in >> Seville that he should be speaking Latin Spanish not that strange >> variation he uses? > > If the barber conference language were Latin, and some Spaniard insisted > on speaking Western

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread Dave Angel
On 03/02/2015 07:38 AM, MRAB wrote: On 2015-03-02 04:49, Dave Angel wrote: On 03/01/2015 08:59 PM, MRAB wrote: On 2015-03-02 01:37, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote The 16 bit address bus permitted addressing of 64k words. On most processors, that was 64k bytes, though I know one Harris had no by

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread Manolo Martínez
On 03/02/15 at 08:59am, alister wrote: > or as another analogy why don't you (Marco) try telling a Barber in > Seville that he should be speaking Latin Spanish not that strange > variation he uses? > > I suspect the reaction you get will be far more severe than the one you > are getting from

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread MRAB
On 2015-03-02 04:49, Dave Angel wrote: On 03/01/2015 08:59 PM, MRAB wrote: On 2015-03-02 01:37, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote You'd be able to run it on a TI99/4 (in which the BASIC interpreter, itself, was run on an interpreter... nothing like taking the first "16-bit" home computer and shackli

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
alister : > or as another analogy why don't you (Marco) try telling a Barber in > Seville that he should be speaking Latin Spanish not that strange > variation he uses? If the barber conference language were Latin, and some Spaniard insisted on speaking Western Andalusian, I sure would consider t

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread alister
On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 20:14:13 -0800, Rustom Mody wrote: > On Sunday, March 1, 2015 at 10:32:00 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: >> Mark Lawrence : >> >> > Are you suggesting that we Brits have a single "home accent"? If you >> > are, you need to stand up as your voice is rather muffled. That b

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-02 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 3:52 AM, Mark Lawrence wrote: >> It's not one that we use out here in the Antipodes... probably a >> British peculiarity. Or perhaps an English peculiarity, but I would >> guess more likely British. >> >> ChrisA >> > > British. Never call me English, my mum was Welsh and wo

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-01 Thread Dave Angel
On 03/01/2015 08:59 PM, MRAB wrote: On 2015-03-02 01:37, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote You'd be able to run it on a TI99/4 (in which the BASIC interpreter, itself, was run on an interpreter... nothing like taking the first "16-bit" home computer and shackling it with an interpreted language that

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-01 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
Rustom Mody : >> However, when I exhange software engineering ideas with you, I wish >> both of us could stick to American English. > > [...] > > I would say it is wrong side of the ledger because the amount of > culture' invested into a Brit is more than into someone who just > poorly learned the

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-01 Thread Rustom Mody
On Sunday, March 1, 2015 at 10:32:00 PM UTC+5:30, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > Mark Lawrence : > > > Are you suggesting that we Brits have a single "home accent"? If you > > are, you need to stand up as your voice is rather muffled. That by the > > way is a British expression that may or may not be u

Re: (Still OT) It's not the size of the vocabulary that matters, but what you do with it [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-01 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Paul Rubin wrote: > Steven D'Aprano writes: >> The Aussie replies “Ah yes, I had a car like that once. American-made, is >> it?” > > Is it true that in Australia, the number of the beast is 999? Wouldn't know. Out here, we're not afraid of the beast - why should w

Re: (Still OT) It's not the size of the vocabulary that matters, but what you do with it [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-01 Thread Paul Rubin
Steven D'Aprano writes: > The Aussie replies “Ah yes, I had a car like that once. American-made, is > it?” Is it true that in Australia, the number of the beast is 999? -- https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

(Still OT) It's not the size of the vocabulary that matters, but what you do with it [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-01 Thread Steven D'Aprano
Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: > Well... when we've got states bigger than some countries... A Texan farmer goes to Australia on vacation. There he meets an Aussie farmer and gets to talking. They walk around the farm a little, and the Aussie shows off his herd of cattle. The Texan immediately replie

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-01 Thread MRAB
On 2015-03-02 01:37, Dennis Lee Bieber wrote: On Sun, 1 Mar 2015 13:43:50 +1100, Chris Angelico declaimed the following: losing performance. Conversely, I'm sure Python could also have been implemented on top of BASIC if someone felt like it, though what the advantages might be I have no idea.

An injury when I was a sbhoolboy; I was bitten by a bat. (was: Python Worst Practices)

2015-03-01 Thread Ben Finney
Roy Smith writes: > In article , > Gregory Ewing wrote: > > > But in documentation, in contexts where it's not critical, I'm more > > likely to use the spelling I'm most familiar with, which is > > "colour". I can't imagine any English speaker, native or otherwise, > > being unable to cope with

OT Accents [was Re: Python Worst Practices]

2015-03-01 Thread Steven D'Aprano
Michael Torrie wrote: > If you want a bit of fun, listen to Patrick Stewart reciting a poem in > his native northern accent.  In school they drilled it out of him, I > guess. And then you have people like Alexis Denisof, husband to Alyson Hannigan, best known for playing Wesley Wyndam-Pryce in Bu

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-01 Thread BartC
On 01/03/2015 16:16, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: Steven D'Aprano : Marko Rauhamaa wrote: Learn it like everybody else has to. Stockholm Syndrome :-) "I learned English, and so everyone else should too." No, the point is that if everybody else has taken the trouble of learning American English,

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-01 Thread Mark Lawrence
On 01/03/2015 21:47, Roy Smith wrote: In article , Gregory Ewing wrote: But in documentation, in contexts where it's not critical, I'm more likely to use the spelling I'm most familiar with, which is "colour". I can't imagine any English speaker, native or otherwise, being unable to cope wit

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-01 Thread Roy Smith
In article , Gregory Ewing wrote: > But in documentation, in contexts where it's not critical, > I'm more likely to use the spelling I'm most familiar > with, which is "colour". I can't imagine any English > speaker, native or otherwise, being unable to cope with > that. What abut people who ca

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-01 Thread Gregory Ewing
Mario Figueiredo wrote: But could you please point us to the ISO that details the international standard for variable names? Or failing that, to the public discussion that took place and decided American-English is the de-facto language for variable names? American became the standard for varia

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-01 Thread alister
On Mon, 02 Mar 2015 07:26:22 +1100, Chris Angelico wrote: > On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 7:16 AM, alister > wrote: >> Last time I was is the USA I had a local ask me which state London was >> in! (heck I know they only bother with their own history but I though >> we played quite an important role in t

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-01 Thread Mario Figueiredo
On Sun, 01 Mar 2015 22:45:12 +0200, Marko Rauhamaa wrote: > >Fact remains I can easily understand what Chinese, Mexican, Italian, >Russian or Malay colleagues say in English. For some reason, Australian >and Indian speakers don't give me trouble, either. The Irish accent is >borderline, but the Br

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-01 Thread Marko Rauhamaa
alister : > The language is called English, the clue is in the name. I don't care what you call it as long as you use the Hollywoodese accent and spelling. > interestingly most 'Brits' can switch between American English & > English without too much trouble I wish they actually did. Not to pic

Re: Python Worst Practices

2015-03-01 Thread Chris Angelico
On Mon, Mar 2, 2015 at 7:16 AM, alister wrote: > Last time I was is the USA I had a local ask me which state London was > in! (heck I know they only bother with their own history but I though we > played quite an important role in that) See, that wasn't a geographic question, it was one of securi

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