[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

This is a little thread drift, but in the past, GP has noted that most people do not need a custom bicycle. If one of their sizes fits you, then you don't need a custom fit. My Ram is that way. It wouldn't be any different if it was custom made. Back when Toyo & Waterford were making frames,

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Probably true enough for 'full time custom builders' - the nice part is that this is not true for all custom builders. Only a few of these things you list are true, others are assumptions and just plain false On Friday, February 2, 2018 at 10:04:47 AM UTC-6, phil k wrote: > > yes, prices went up

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

What would be the major advantage of a custom over a Rivendell? The only benefit I would see is if you wanted s bike that was different from Grant’s vision, perhaps a disc frame bike. Perhaps there is a perception a custom builder can truly design a unique bike for each individual body but I am

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

yes, prices went up for a lot of one-man shops as well. most full-time custom builders are starting at $3000-3300. i do realize that there are builders that can offer it for less than that, but usually they have other streams of income other than building customs, or are not full time, or do

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

So when I heard this news I was kind of surprised. I was like...didn't they just raise prices?! My surprise was akin to hearning my grandma when she learned a cup of coffee was 3 plus dollars (not for this guy thanks to my AeroPress!) Anyways, I did a little comparison shopping. I shopped

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Yes that is ridiculous, but a "cheaper" way to own a "McLaren" -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Cool color. I wonder how much you're paying for McLaren to brand a bicycle they otherwise had no involvement in. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/s-works-roubaix-mclaren-dura-ace-di2/p/134255?color=240101-134255 Maybe lum was referring to something like this when calling out pricing:-$ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 5:19:00 PM UTC-6, Andrew Huston wrote: > > No, but making Hilsens and Hunqs in Taiwan batch-style, could make these > bikes more accessible with minimal quality decrease. True, but that would require Riv to pre-order, and then stock, a very large number of

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Ugh, too many "franklies" in that one. My kingdom for an edit feature! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

I, too, have bouts of "money from the sky" custom dreaming, but had to face reality: Even if I could afford one - I sorta can if I really committed - I'm much too low-mileage and casual of a rider to justify the effort. My new Cheviot is a spectacular bicycle which already has abilities far

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Dave, Agreed on everything you said... We do vote with our dollars. When and where we spend our dollars equates in its way to, we vote for more of that, and unfortunately, in the zero-sum sense, we vote for less of whatever we did not choose. If money did fall from the sky, there are several

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

One value-add, as they say in biznis speak, is what appears (from owning 5 Rivendells) a signature Rivendell handling quality which I experience as straight line stability with "unerring" transition into turns. I had hoped to get this from my Matthews, but didn't (and given that I ride 50 or, now,

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Well stated. On Thursday, February 1, 2018 at 9:37:03 AM UTC-6, Dave Small wrote: > > I have a couple of thoughts: > > I like well-designed and well-made steel bikes that are lugged or > fillet-brazed, are built for 1" threaded quill stems, and can accommodate > tires of at least 32mm and

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Here's what Grant had to say on the subject of price and value and bicycles exactly 22 years ago, in the sidebar in the February 1996 issue of Bicycle Guide magazine (click to embiggen):

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

I have a couple of thoughts: I like well-designed and well-made steel bikes that are lugged or fillet-brazed, are built for 1" threaded quill stems, and can accommodate tires of at least 32mm and preferably wider. Offhand I can think of a few specific models from other companies that meet

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

That's what I think. If a custom MUSA frame can be had for not a lot more than what a production frame costs, eventually people will choose to go custom, choose to purchase overseas produced frames, or go a different route for a bicycle. On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 10:43:55 AM UTC-6,

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

I don't have a problem discussing why prices rises, I just take issue with a question being presented as though there was no explanation from Grant. There's been countless explanations of the state of business over all the years Riv had existed, and a good number in the last couple months. The

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

While it’s possible to get another MUSA bike for cheaper than a MUSA Rivendell, it won’t ever magically morph into a Rivendell. So there’s that. I don’t, however, think it’s ludicrous to have a conversation about the price change. Clearly, Grant knew it would be a big deal because he mentioned

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

You can plug your years and dollar figures into the adjusted inflation machine all you want. But like almost all statistics and figures having to do with our economy, you won't get even close to the real picture. The owners or investors of companies like bikesdirect or Public might be in it in

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

I'm pretty sure Taiwan already has, and has had, the best large production bicycle factories for some time, including carbon fiber, aluminum, and steel. On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 6:26:28 PM UTC-5, Philip Kim wrote: > > Price also has to go up considering Taiwan has made significant

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

There's a short answer to the question, and it's right in the Blug post this thread is about: "F.A.Q.: Why are your frames so expensive? Answer: COSTS!" I'm not clear why we're using this forum to ask answered questions. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Price also has to go up considering Taiwan has made significant investment in their bike factory technology and aqcuiring more skilled labor and it's fast approaching the best factories in the world that can fulfill on a production scale in high quality frames. Same thing happened to Nike in S

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

No, but making Hilsens and Hunqs in Taiwan batch-style, could make these bikes more accessible with minimal quality decrease. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

It is likely that a large part of what makes the Taiwan-made frames so much cheaper is that they are made---and shipped---in batches of several identical model, size, color frames. Ordering bikes one-at-a-time like the nominally `production' Waterford frames, then shipping them across the

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

I think Bill makes a very good point about resale value. When I first read this post, I'll admit some concern at Rivendell pricing themselves out of the market. I thought 'Wow, I could buy a pretty damned good custom for $2700." Simon Firth here in Philly makes amazing lugged frames/forks for

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

LOL. Not about the shrinking quantities that the g-damned corporate suits try to sneak past us hoping we don't notice -- the gross sin here is not only the cheating; it's the pettiness, meanness, and caddish nature of it, petty snivelling little shits -- but the idea that the Rivendell suits are

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Oh man... I just want to add that Grant and Riv struggle to survive from year to year in this country that does not support small, successful, vibrant, loved, etc. companies like this. Riv employs a bunch of great, real people that answer the phone when you call. People who love the product

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Prices of everything have to go up eventually in a country where you have a constant trade deficit. 1+1!=3. On Wed, Jan 31, 2018 at 3:51 PM, Mattt wrote: > The price is still pretty good compared to other kinds of bikes out there. > > -- > You received this message because

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

The price is still pretty good compared to other kinds of bikes out there. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

I'll also add that as an owner of a Waterford Tig'd Milwaukee frame and a Taiwanese Tig'd Rivendell Clem Smith both have equally clean looking welds with no perceptible differences as far as my untrained eye could tell. I trust that the imported fully lugged Riv's are just as reliable and well

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Either the price of your product needs to be adjusted to reflect it, or your product needs to be adjusted to reflect your target price... off topic but kinda reminds of Haagen Dazs reducing their "pints" from 16 to 14oz rather than raise their pint price. I recall this happening a while back

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

$1000 in 1999 is just about $1500 in 2018 accounting for inflation. When USA made frames are going for double, triple, or more since 1999 I don’t think “out of control” is a totally crazy opinion. I might not agree with it but I think it’s within the realm of normal and acceptable opinions.

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

I would imagine because Grant wants a new car. Just kidding. I suspect the usual reason, which is that the cost of doing business is going up--factories charging more, shipping costs, labor, insurance, etc. These things are generally always inching up, and after a while, the price of your

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Not sure what Lum (IF THAT IS YOUR REAL NAME ;) ) is referring to as far as bike industry pricing. Do you mean frames? Do you mean parts? There are ways around this if you care to spend time and wait a bit longer - overseas sellers and the like. -- You received this message because you are

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

I've had a Taiwan Sam, a Waterford Roadeo, and an Atlantis that I am really not sure where it was built. They all rode like Rivendells. I wouldn't have a problem with an entire line of Taiwan Rivs provided the quality was the same as the Sam I had. On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 12:27:31

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

The terrible secret about the Taiwan versions is they're just as meticulously brazed by bike geeks as the MUSA frames. Everybody likes supporting domestic production and some of us have the cash to support it, but realistically you're not getting a "better" Riv. They're all great. -- You

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

My mistake Bill, I misread your previous posting questioning the "posting police". So to get this discussion back on track...does anyone know why prices are increasing? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Would the perceived “value” of these bikes be less if the design attributes remained and the production went overseas for a respective reduction on the price tag? I’ve felt that the Taiwanese versions are rather highly regarded by Riv staff. I have owned both Waterford and Taiwan built bikes.

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Eric I've heard various "police" names thrown out when people are feeling persecuted. If Lum Gim Fong is feeling unfairly persecuted. The classic situation is when people habitually post misspellings, or fragment sentences, or otherwise sloppy grammar, and somebody points out the bad

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Bill, I've never heard the term "posting police". Do you find it laughable that this group is "dedicated to the discussion of RBW and products" and that someone decides that actual discussion of such is verboten? I do. Additionally, while resale value can fluctuate, it seems outside the

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

At this point I think it's fair to say the line between MUSA production and MUSA custom is well and truly blurred. They're both handbuilt in USA with long lead times, with the main difference on Nobilletes being specific tubing and sizing for the specific customer. And that sweet Rivendell

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

I think nick b is probably right in his interpretation of Rivs BLUG typo. It's not clear to me whether the HHH Tandem frames needed to be included at all. The HHH tandem is $1800, and they have just a few in stock. There's no plan to do another run, and the 'costs' of the ones in stock

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

not sure what you mean? do you mean mass produced parts (like shimano components, etc) and their price in US relative to their price in other parts of the world? Do you mean pricing on bikes like Surly/All city in the US is too high? That Americans overpay for the current bike trends like race

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Lum Gim Fong said: "Posting police please stay away." Can you please expand on the meaning of this request? At whom is this directed, and what are these people doing? Bill Lindsay El Cerrito, CA On Wednesday, January 31, 2018 at 8:48:20 AM UTC-8, Lum Gim Fong wrote: > > I think the bike

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

I do not hear of many U.S. based builders getting hugely rich, in fact, quite the opposite. This makes me think that saying "bike industry pricing in the USA is out of control" is just another way of saying one prefers products and/or the price structure associated with mass production in low

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

Lum, can you expand on how bike industry pricing out of control but Riv is competitive? And did Waterford raise all their prices too? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

I think the bike industry pricing in the USA is out of control. That said, I think Rivendells pricing is competitive, if not better than like frame sellers. Posting police please stay away. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

^Exactly. Waterford is pricing themselves out of the market, sorry not sorry. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

$2700 for a stock Atlantis or AHH? $3500 for a custom sounds cheap. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to

[RBW] Re: Rivendell prices going up.

The prices are going up $100 from $1300 to $1400. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to