Does anyone actually know the current appointment system for military
chaplains? A fairly high ranking officer told me that they no longer have
quotas by denomination, as a result of litigation; that was either held
unconstitutional or they agreed in a settlement to abandon it. The special
I don't know about military chaplains (and I know this is a bit of a
digression), but there is an interesting case before the 9th Circuit involving
prison chaplains, McCollum v. CA Dept. of Corrections. Plaintiff, a Wiccan who
applied to be a prison chaplain and was rejected, alleges
Douglas Laycock
Armistead M. Dobie Professor of Law
University of Virginia Law School
580 Massie Road
Charlottesville, VA 22903
434-243-8546
--- the forwarded message follows ---
---BeginMessage---
Doug, for some reason my message to the list was just bounced back, so
here's what I meant
] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Marty Lederman
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006
5:50 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Law Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: Re: Victory for Military
Chaplains Who Pray In Jesus Name
Chaplain Klingenschmitt:
With all due respect
Paul Finkelman wrote:
Sounds very much like someone tooting his own horn? Is excessive pride
also a sin?
Interestingly enough, it sounded like somebody who was accused of
selfishness attempting to place his actions in context in order to defend
the impugning of his character.
One can
Brad Pardee writes:
It sounds to me very much like the Navy has, in essence, said that a
person
can only be a chaplain if they act as if they don't actually believe
anything. That doesn't sound like what 200+ years worth of American
fighting men and women were willing to die to defend.
There
Having lost this debate onits intellectual merits, Mr. Finkelman resorts to personal attacks on my character.Yet I agree with him on one point,that pride is a terrible sin, so I shall here endeavor to humblypracticeProverbs 27:2: "Let another praise you,and not your own mouth; someone else,
: Monday, October 02, 2006 9:13
AM
Subject: Re: Victory for Military
Chaplains Who Pray "In Jesus Name"
Having lost this debate onits intellectual merits, Mr. Finkelman
resorts to personal attacks on my character.
Yet I agree with him on one point,that pride is a terrible si
On 10/2/06, Brad Pardee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It sounds to me very much like the Navy has, in essence, said that a person
can only be a chaplain if they act as if they don't actually believe
anything. That doesn't sound like what 200+ years worth of American
fighting men and women were
n
James Klingenschmitt
To: Law Religion issues for Law
Academics
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 8:16
PM
Subject: RE: Victory for Military
Chaplains Who Pray "In Jesus Name"
Excellent comment Professor Scarberry,
But now that the policy is rescinded, s
ehalf Of David E.
GuinnSent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 11:57 AMTo: Law
Religion issues for Law AcademicsSubject: Re: Victory for Military
Chaplains Who Pray "In Jesus Name"
I am appalled by the selfishness of this line of
argument -- that the only point of concern is to "prote
Of course, selfishness is an abhorrent sinmuch to be despisedplease forgive me if anyone supposes my "zeal" is based in selfishnessI shall certainly self-examine and repent if sobut I only ask,was it selfish or unselfish,when I :1) Gave up an award-winningAir Force career and
Sounds very much like someone tooting his own horn? Is excessive pride
also a sin?
One can only wonder how G-d will respond to someone who brags about his
work to make outcasts of gay members of the human family. Perhaps the
Chaplain should try marching a mile or two in the boot of a gay
: Re: Victory for Military Chaplains Who Pray In Jesus Name
Sounds very much like someone tooting his own horn? Is excessive pride
also a sin?
One can only wonder how G-d will respond to someone who brags about his
work to make outcasts of gay members of the human family. Perhaps the
Chaplain
AlthoughCongress didn't pass new legislation,they did order SECNAV and SECAF to rescind their recent (illegal) policies that required "non-sectarian" prayersso the controversial Air Force Guidelines (and Navy policy) are now TOTALLY RESCINDED, and military chaplains are free to pray
to proclaim their private religious beliefs. Our
soldiers die to protect the latter right; they should not be subjected
to the oppression from military chaplains who insist on insulting and
antagonizing soldiers and sailors and causing conflict within the ranks.
I am sure Capt. Kingenschmitt can
o: UCLA Law Class
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 3:14
PM
Subject: Victory for Military Chaplains
Who Pray "In Jesus Name"
AlthoughCongress didn't pass new legislation,they did order
SECNAV and SECAF to rescind their recent (illegal) policies that required
"no
Chaplain Klingenschmitt:
With all due respect, this is simple
nonsense.
1. Section 6031 does not say that military
chaplains may pray "in Jesus's name," and if it did authorize such
prayers in the chaplains' official capacities, it would almost certainly violate
the Establishm
essage -
From:
Marty Lederman
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Law
Religion issues for Law Academics
Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 5:50
PM
Subject: Re: Victory for Military
Chaplains Who Pray "In Jesus Name"
Chaplain Klingenschmitt:
With all due respect, thi
Disclaimer: Any views expressed below are my
own and do not necessarily reflect the official position of the Department of
the Navy or the Navy Chaplain Corps.
Professors,
If the agreement to remove the "Military Chaplains
Prayer Law" from the National Defense Authorization Ac
he is assigned, and shall perform appropriate religious burial services for members of the Air Force who die while in that command."- Original Message - From: Marty Lederman To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Law Religion issues for Law Academics Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 5
ie while in that command."- Original Message - From: Marty Lederman To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; Law Religion issues for Law Academics Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 5:50 PM Subject: Re: Victory for
Military Chaplains Who Pray "In Jesus Name"Chaplain Klingensc
of W. A. Wildhack III
Sent: Sat 9/30/2006 5:02 PM
To: 'Law Religion issues for Law Academics'
Subject: RE: Victory for Military Chaplains Who Pray In Jesus Name
Disclaimer: Any views expressed below are my own and do not necessarily
reflect the official position of the Department of the Navy
Excellent comment Professor Scarberry, But now that the policy is rescinded, so is any distinction between "public worship at divine services" and "public worship at command ceremonies" and so the law (once again) protects the chaplain at all events whenever he prays...prayer itself is
Can a military chaplain pray publicly "in Jesus name?"
And can a military chaplain quote "divisive" scriptures?
Today the Air Force issued NEW guidelines forbiddingsectarian public prayers.
But the Naval Chief of Chaplains said thatactually can't be enforced.
Comments on thearticle on the front
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