h calculator in Rockbox! TRULY mainstream! (if my
old Nokia's 'bonus' features were anything to go by)
> -Original Message-
> From: mat holton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 28 November 2006 10:30
> To: Rockbox development
> Subject: Re: rockbox-recorder-
Philipp Pertermann wrote:
Paul Louden schrieb:
In that context, 90% could actually be considered the same as
-10%, as they're both "10% less than the full level" but since you don't
have an absolute point of reference with dB, the negative numbers make
perfect sense.
Actually you do have an ab
Paul Louden schrieb:
In that context, 90% could actually be considered the same as
-10%, as they're both "10% less than the full level" but since you don't
have an absolute point of reference with dB, the negative numbers make
perfect sense.
Actually you do have an absolute point of reference:
Nix schrieb:
I don't understand why 0dB doesn't mean `dead silence'. I mean, that's
what decibels are, right, a unit of sound intensity?
In audio gear decibel is used to describe the _amplification_ of the
system. It is not a unit of sound intensity. 0 db means unity gain, the
input signal i
s :D
_
From: Paul Louden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 28 November 2006 00:14
To: Rockbox development
Subject: Re: rockbox-recorder-20061122 - volume representation messed up
Well, firstly decibels are a relative scale. So 0 would be "not reduced or
amplified." In that cont
Well, firstly decibels are a relative scale. So 0 would be "not reduced or
amplified." In that context, 90% could actually be considered the same as
-10%, as they're both "10% less than the full level" but since you don't
have an absolute point of reference with dB, the negative numbers make
perfe
On 23 Nov 2006, Linus Nielsen Feltzing told this:
> mat holton wrote:
>> You see, this is the problem when you let audiophiles or programmers
>> design User Interfaces.
>
> Actually, the dB scale solves a very old issue on the Archos, namely
> the question what volume to set to avoid clipping (0dB)
On 23.11.2006, mat holton wrote:
> Mike Holden wrote:
>> Paul Louden wrote:
>>
>>> Most audio devices have exactly *one* scheme for volume:
>>> ...
> Then I won't mention it again. After this. The fact remains
> that most people will think that seeing negative is strange
> when dealing with
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 14:18:49 -0800, "Menachem Shapiro"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>B"H
>On 11/23/06, Tom Cole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Perhaps it's enough to add "dB" on the display to make it clear?
>> >
>> >Yes, that's a good idea either way.
>>
>> Yes I agree, but on the small Arch
B"H
On 11/23/06, Tom Cole <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps it's enough to add "dB" on the display to make it clear?
>
>Yes, that's a good idea either way.
Yes I agree, but on the small Archos screens, there is no room on the
status line to add the "dB" text.
The Recorder does have enoug
On Thu, 23 Nov 2006 18:09:30 -, "gl" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> That's where the 92% came from as the Archos can go up to +12dB (100%).
>
>I see (never had one).
>
>>> Sure, but 100% for 0dB and (say) 110% convey it just as well.
>>
>> I don't think this is intuitive at all if it is not c
That's where the 92% came from as the Archos can go up to +12dB (100%).
I see (never had one).
Sure, but 100% for 0dB and (say) 110% convey it just as well.
I don't think this is intuitive at all if it is not clear that 100%
refers to 0dB.
Seems pretty clear to me. No less clear than 0d
gl wrote:
> > I had to remember that 0dB are 92% on the AJR20
> > and something else on the H340.
>
> It doesn't need to be. Just code it so that 0 and 100% always lie on
> exactly the first and last values,.
That's where the 92% came from as the Archos can go up to +12dB (100%).
> > In the ol
B"H
On 11/23/06, Linus Nielsen Feltzing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Philipp Pertermann wrote:
> If the percentage- versus decibel-volume-scale is that much of an issue
> - why not make it an option wether to display the volume as % or as db?
Because it is a waste of precious code space on the arc
On 11/23/06, Philipp Pertermann <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Also it makes life so much easier to have a well _define_ gain when you
chain up an Archos with other audio gear.
Ok, I admit: neither the normal user nor a sound professional will chain
up the Archos with other gear. The normal user does
Linus Nielsen Feltzing schrieb:
Actually, the dB scale solves a very old issue on the Archos, namely the
question what volume to set to avoid clipping (0dB).
Also it makes life so much easier to have a well _define_ gain when you
chain up an Archos with other audio gear.
Ok, I admit: neither
mat holton wrote:
I don't know if I'm just being really argumentative today but I feel
that if you have to look at a manual in order to understand the volume
reading then something has gone wrong somewhere.
Of course, you don't *need* to look at the manual. Turn the volume up,
it gets loude
I had to remember that 0dB are 92% on the AJR20
and something else on the H340.
It doesn't need to be. Just code it so that 0 and 100% always lie on
exactly the first and last values,. I did that with my original 'abitrary
enum bitmaps' patch for volume, exactly so that a 'mute' and 'max'
Michael DiFebbo wrote:
mat holton wrote:
You see, this is the problem when you let audiophiles or programmers
design User Interfaces. You have to look at things from the
perspective of someone who is not a programmer or Mathematician or
Sound Engineer. Hard, I know, for some people to lower
mat holton wrote:
I agree 100%.
But surely that's what #ifdefs are for?
I guess we *could* exclude that setting from the Archos. I still think
it's an unnecessary setting. :-)
Linus
mat holton wrote:
You see, this is the problem when you let audiophiles or programmers
design User Interfaces. You have to look at things from the
perspective of someone who is not a programmer or Mathematician or
Sound Engineer. Hard, I know, for some people to lower themselves to
such leve
mat holton wrote:
You see, this is the problem when you let audiophiles or programmers
design User Interfaces.
Actually, the dB scale solves a very old issue on the Archos, namely the
question what volume to set to avoid clipping (0dB). The MAS chip can
set the volume above 0dB, you see.
In
mat holton wrote:
> So I'm wrong about hi-fi's displaying dB scale. There are also
> audiophile's that spend £50 on a piece of speaker-cable or buy little
> boxes to rest speaker their cable on. These kind of people would
> probably appreciate a dB scale.
I think it's the other way round: those
On 11/23/06, mat holton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Linus Nielsen Feltzing wrote:
> mat holton wrote:
>> how many hi-fi's have negative numbers next to the volume knob? None,
>> that's how many.
>
> That's odd. Then maybe my hi-fi isn't a hi-fi, because it displays the
> volume in dB. And I like i
On Thu, 2006-11-23 at 12:01 +0100, Linus Nielsen Feltzing wrote:
> Philipp Pertermann wrote:
> > If the percentage- versus decibel-volume-scale is that much of an issue
> > - why not make it an option wether to display the volume as % or as db?
>
> Because it is a waste of precious code space on
mat holton wrote:
The only fact I know is that people I work with thought the numbers
looked odd.
I agree. Most people I know have reacted the same way. It's surprising
for those who expect a vanilla 0-10 scale. However, most people I know
have had no problem accepting the dB scale either.
Linus Nielsen Feltzing wrote:
Philipp Pertermann wrote:
If the percentage- versus decibel-volume-scale is that much of an
issue - why not make it an option wether to display the volume as %
or as db?
Because it is a waste of precious code space on the archos?
Linus
.
I agree 100%.
But s
Linus Nielsen Feltzing wrote:
mat holton wrote:
how many hi-fi's have negative numbers next to the volume knob? None,
that's how many.
That's odd. Then maybe my hi-fi isn't a hi-fi, because it displays the
volume in dB. And I like it.
We could use any representation we want, and we opted fo
Steve B wrote:
... how many hi-fi's have negative numbers next to the volume knob?
Mine does. ;-p
Yes. It does.
Mine doesn't. Actually it might do. I'll check when I get home.
Then why doesn't Spinal Taps?
You see, this is the problem when you let audiophiles or programmers
design
Philipp Pertermann wrote:
If the percentage- versus decibel-volume-scale is that much of an
issue - why not make it an option wether to display the volume as % or
as db?
Phil
It's not, it's only me who's concerned about it apparently :-)
And I don't actually care, I merely _ASSUMED_ that
Philipp Pertermann wrote:
If the percentage- versus decibel-volume-scale is that much of an issue
- why not make it an option wether to display the volume as % or as db?
Because it is a waste of precious code space on the archos?
Linus
> ... how many hi-fi's have negative numbers next to the volume knob?
Mine does. ;-p
--
Steve B
If the percentage- versus decibel-volume-scale is that much of an issue
- why not make it an option wether to display the volume as % or as db?
Phil
mat holton wrote:
> Then I won't mention it again. After this. The fact remains that most
> people will think that seeing negative is strange when dealing with
> volume, how many hi-fi's have negative numbers next to the volume knob?
> None, that's how many.
This is false. I have seen numerous hi
mat holton wrote:
how many hi-fi's have negative numbers next to the volume knob?
None, that's how many.
That's odd. Then maybe my hi-fi isn't a hi-fi, because it displays the
volume in dB. And I like it.
We could use any representation we want, and we opted for a
representation that actual
Hello Mat!
Quoting mat holton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]):
> Then I won't mention it again. After this. The fact remains that most
> people will think that seeing negative is strange when dealing with
> volume, how many hi-fi's have negative numbers next to the volume knob?
> None, that's how many.
Mike Holden wrote:
Paul Louden wrote:
Most audio devices have exactly *one* scheme for volume: Higher numbers
are
louder. I have some that are 0-10, some that are 1-10 (with only mute
being
off, 1 is still quiet), some that are 0-40, 0-20, 0-30, 0-100, etc. The
only
real consistency is that h
Umm, the dB scale *IS* a bigger-is-louder settings. You start at negative
something, and as you increase toward (or on some players past) zero, the
volume gets louder. That is bigger is louder. I'm actually quite in favour
of the dB scale, because it's just as intuitive as the others numerically
(
Paul Louden wrote:
> Most audio devices have exactly *one* scheme for volume: Higher numbers
> are
> louder. I have some that are 0-10, some that are 1-10 (with only mute
> being
> off, 1 is still quiet), some that are 0-40, 0-20, 0-30, 0-100, etc. The
> only
> real consistency is that higher numbe
Most audio devices have exactly *one* scheme for volume: Higher numbers are
louder. I have some that are 0-10, some that are 1-10 (with only mute being
off, 1 is still quiet), some that are 0-40, 0-20, 0-30, 0-100, etc. The only
real consistency is that higher numbers are louder. Yes, there are no
mat holton wrote:
> It may make sense to an audio chip but for the average human being (and
> someone used to personal audio devices) it makes no sense whatsoever. I
> mean, why don't you go all the way and make it go from 0 - 11, so it's
> '1' louder than most devices!
Many other audio devices u
Menachem Shapiro wrote:
B"H
On 11/22/06, Dominik Riebeling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 11/23/06, Menachem Shapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> After I finished the install, my volume goes from -99 to 12, instead
> of 0 to 100.
This has been changed quite a while ago and is the normal (and
ex
B"H
On 11/22/06, Dominik Riebeling <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 11/23/06, Menachem Shapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> After I finished the install, my volume goes from -99 to 12, instead
> of 0 to 100.
This has been changed quite a while ago and is the normal (and
expected) behaviour -- inst
On 11/23/06, Menachem Shapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
After I finished the install, my volume goes from -99 to 12, instead
of 0 to 100.
This has been changed quite a while ago and is the normal (and
expected) behaviour -- instead of using some percentage value the
volume now uses the real d
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