On 5 August 2010 05:24, William Stein wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Harald Schilly
> wrote:
>> On Aug 2, 4:58 pm, "Dr. David Kirkby" wrote:
>>> .. if the difference between experimental
>>> and optional could be clarified.
>>
>> Personally. if I could define it, I would use these def
Several things going on in this thread (which is just fine, Johan!).
1. Doc rebuilds
Good to see this being addressed, and thanks to Georg for the
explanation. I like Simon's idea, but I'd make killing the docs an
active choice (especially if the extra rebuilding gets "fixed")
sage -clone -nod
Thanks, William. You are exactly right about the origins of these two
classes.
> It sounds to me like the "AbelianGroup" class you mention above that
> depends somewhat on GAP
> is basically the original code that David Joyner wrote long ago. The
> AdditiveAbelianGroup class sounds
> like the new
On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:41 AM, Harald Schilly
wrote:
> On Aug 2, 4:58 pm, "Dr. David Kirkby" wrote:
>> .. if the difference between experimental
>> and optional could be clarified.
>
> Personally. if I could define it, I would use these definitions:
>
> 1. standard: that's well tested, included
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 8:37 PM, Rob Beezer wrote:
> I am implementing the group of units mod n (the multiplicative group
> of invertible elements of the ring Z_n). Mostly I am interested in a
> non-trivial example of an infinite family of finite groups for
> students to work with, which can then
Hi Sage Developers,
There are going to be a couple of hours of coding sprints each day at
Sage Days 25 in India (Mon - Thur this coming week):
http://wiki.sagemath.org/daysindia25/schedule
However, unfortunately, there might not be any experienced Sage
developers there (I'm not able to
I am implementing the group of units mod n (the multiplicative group
of invertible elements of the ring Z_n). Mostly I am interested in a
non-trivial example of an infinite family of finite groups for
students to work with, which can then also be used as an example of a
direct product in accord wi
On 08/03/2010 03:05 PM, Georg S. Weber wrote:
> On 3 Aug., 08:34, Rob Beezer wrote:
>> I just built a clone in about a minute. On a fresh install of
>> 4.5.2.rc0 created from source. Maybe with a binary install, the docs
>> need to be built on the first clone?
>
> No,
>
> the problem is with r
> The fact that you're "doing it" at all implies the imperative which, as
> we all know, is not the way to program (this week).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Touché
my friend(?)
=)
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On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 4:42 PM, Alex Ghitza wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 13:21:11 -0700 (PDT), cousteau
> wrote:
>> I agree with Simon in that developers may be reluctant to modify the
>> preparser unless it's strictly necessary.
>> An argument in favor of changing it would be Sage's mission:
>>
mda_ wrote:
Hopefully this all agrees with you, and if not, I guess I can start
learning Lisp...
My apologies for the cross-posting (I am not yet approved for sage-
flame)
http://www.buayacorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/john-mccarthy-poster1.jpg
The fact that you're "doing it
On 08/04/2010 08:14 PM, David Kirkby wrote:
> I'm building Sage on one of my SPARCs which does not have much RAM
> (only 2 GB), though its enough to build Sage OK. But I noticed when
> building the documenation, the memory usage is quite high.
>
> This is the output from 'prstat' - the Solaris too
I'm building Sage on one of my SPARCs which does not have much RAM
(only 2 GB), though its enough to build Sage OK. But I noticed when
building the documenation, the memory usage is quite high.
This is the output from 'prstat' - the Solaris tool like 'top'.
PID USERNAME SIZE RSS STATE PRI
> Hopefully this all agrees with you, and if not, I guess I can start
> learning Lisp...
My apologies for the cross-posting (I am not yet approved for sage-
flame)
http://www.buayacorp.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/john-mccarthy-poster1.jpg
(Above: A portrait, and tribute! ;-), to the inven
Nils,
First of all, I hope my distaste for the muggy weather hasn't made me
unbearable. 0:-)
When I was referring to things being much more difficult, I was
thinking of implementing a cmp() function that took arbitrary
hashables and defined a total ordering on all of them, consistent
regardless o
On Aug 4, 3:44 pm, mda_ wrote:
> >http://docs.python.org/py3k/whatsnew/3.1.html#pep-372-ordered-diction...
Thanks! That makes me want to use Python 3.1.
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On 5 August 2010 00:47, Bill Hart wrote:
> It doesn't use it just because you set the environment variable. You
> can simply remove the ntl-prefix if you want.
>
> Bill.
In that case, there is no need to make any changes. I've changed the
ticket to "wontfix" as there is no need to fix it in this
It doesn't use it just because you set the environment variable. You
can simply remove the ntl-prefix if you want.
Bill.
On 4 Aug, 12:02, "Dr. David Kirkby" wrote:
> On 08/ 4/10 04:03 AM, Fran ois Bissey wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >> On 8/3/2010 7:34 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
> >>> I think I've discov
On Wed, 4 Aug 2010 13:21:11 -0700 (PDT), cousteau
wrote:
> I agree with Simon in that developers may be reluctant to modify the
> preparser unless it's strictly necessary.
> An argument in favor of changing it would be Sage's mission:
> "Creating a viable free open source alternative to Magma, Ma
On Aug 4, 4:20 pm, Nils Bruin wrote:
> O(len(L)*len(V)*log(len(V)))
sorry. That was a typo. Binary search means
O(log(len(L))*len(V)*log(len(V)))
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On Aug 4, 3:14 pm, Robert Miller wrote:
> If Python jumped off a cliff...
Then Sage might as well :-). Or be reimplemented in CL.
> So then you would rather have Sage sets give an error rather than sort
> in a list? I can't imagine why this is a good thing. You seem to be
> ignoring the sorted()
> Another except from the PEP: "A version written in C could use a
> linked list. The code would be more complex than the other two
> approaches but it would conserve space and would keep the same big-oh
> performance as regular dictionaries. It is the fastest and most space
> efficient."
The trad
> > I don't know how easy it is to make such a data structure efficient
> > and what the memory penalty is for having both hashing and ordering.
>
> http://docs.python.org/py3k/whatsnew/3.1.html#pep-372-ordered-diction...
>
> The reference implementation in the PEP(372) states "O(n)" for
> deletion
> An alternative approach would be to realise that vertices need to be
> stored in a sequence that has quick membership testing, for instance a
> dictionary {'v1': 0, 'v2':1} etc. Depending on the type of access,
> perhaps you would also need to keep the thing as a sequence
> ['v1','v2']. In magma,
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 5:51 PM, Nils Bruin wrote:
> On Aug 4, 1:16 pm, Robert Miller wrote:
>> So you want Sage Sets to implement "a < b" to mean "a is a subset of
>> b"? I'll admit that that is reasonable, and it is a fact that it
>> follows Python convention.
>
> My initial reaction for this is
On Aug 4, 1:16 pm, Robert Miller wrote:
> So you want Sage Sets to implement "a < b" to mean "a is a subset of
> b"? I'll admit that that is reasonable, and it is a fact that it
> follows Python convention.
My initial reaction for this is affirmative: If python makes a choice,
then sage must foll
Wow, I'm 100% certain I have nothing to add to this quandary, and
couldn't possibly know the correct answer/choice, only supply the link
to the relevant context Robert refers to:
http://docs.python.org/release/3.0.1/whatsnew/3.0.html#ordering-comparisons
Down the rabbit hole indeed.
D
On Aug 4,
IIRC Bareiss is not division-free, but fraction-free ie. only exact
divisions.
But feel free to correct me...
On Aug 4, 5:32 pm, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
> A standard thing to use for computing determinants division-free
> ishttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bareiss_algorithm
> (which is O(n^3) if you c
Also, consider the fact that many Sage functions use "return
sorted(output)" to guarantee a consistent ordering of the output. What
you're advocating means that this wouldn't work in many cases...
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 4:16 PM, Robert Miller wrote:
> Nils,
>
> So you want Sage Sets to implement
On 3 ago, 13:01, Simon King wrote:
>
> 1) It must be easily recognisable for the preparser. I think this is
> the case here.
> 2) There is no way to interpret it in Python syntax (i.e., there can
> be no doubt for the preparser which syntax is being used). I think
> this is the case here, since ha
Nils,
So you want Sage Sets to implement "a < b" to mean "a is a subset of
b"? I'll admit that that is reasonable, and it is a fact that it
follows Python convention. But I think that the Python convention is
bizarre, especially given how they implement sorting lists. I would
also rather the sort
Hi!
I think I'm successful to download the sagevmware, since the combined
.zip file has the checksum that you provided.
but the problem is the README.txt instruction says:
Double click on sage_vmx in the sage-vmware-x.y directory to run SAGE.
I've a sage-vmware-4.4.vmxf file which is 1 kb and the
Hi
As it turns out I had an undergraduate student do a research project
on Dodgson's method, and we have a paper coming out in College Math
Journal later this year on a way that sort of fixes it, but (still)
not always. Here's a preprint that's somewhat strewn with typos, but
should still get the
Hi,
I've been trying to make a Sage Package from a Python package, and I
have problems when using Sage classes such as RealNumber or Integer.
Since now, the only solutions I found are:
1- Redefining these two classes: RealNumber=float, Integer=int
2- Turning off the preparser via: preparser(False)
On Aug 4, 4:23 am, Robert Miller wrote:
> I'm not sure what the point of a comparison function is if we don't
> implement a total ordering. The main place cmp methods get used is in
> sorting.
But it is a fact that Python has already abandoned total ordering
semantics for "<".
> If you have a la
Hi Harald,
I think the operations in the case with zeroes are not random, but a
cyclic permutation of the rows, which allows to reuse most of the
previously computed minors. I haven't read a complete description of
the algorithm, but if cyclic permutations are always enough in the
case with zeroes
A standard thing to use for computing determinants division-free is
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bareiss_algorithm
(which is O(n^3) if you count ring operations)
Dima
On Aug 4, 5:20 pm, Harald Schilly wrote:
> On 4 Aug., 16:05, Robert Miller wrote:
>
> >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodgson_cond
I was unable to build Sage 4.5.1 on my laptop using gcc-4.5.1 (instead
of its standard gcc-4.3.2), cause Atlas did not compile, showing
strange messages like
(complete logs are at
http://boxen.math.washington.edu/home/dima/tmp/gcc451logs/)
make[5]: *** [re
On 4 Aug., 16:05, Robert Miller wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodgson_condensation
Nice, never heard of, but how does the case with zeros work? In the
example with zeros, C has zeros and then they do some random
operations (?) on the initial matrix to get rid of them. That sounds
bad. Rat
How about a sample of three? Seems fine from New Mexico.
On Aug 4, 7:37 am, "Dr. David Kirkby" wrote:
> On 08/ 4/10 01:58 PM, Robert Miller wrote:
>
> > Is the trac server slow this week, or is it just because I'm in Canada?
>
> Yes, I think so too, though its hard to know if it my Internet servi
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Sebastian Pancratz wrote:
> Actually, I don't think it does.
I was too eager to put a Lewis Carroll quote on sage-devel. I knew I
should have investigated this claim before posting. Also suspect is
the O(n^3) claim. If it is true, it might still be worth it to
imp
On 4 Aug, 15:05, Robert Miller wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodgson_condensation
>
> Chris Godsil pointed out to me yesterday that determinants over
> generic rings uses expansion by minors, which is exponential. Much
> better would be to use Charles Dodgson's method, which is cubic,
> de
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodgson_condensation
Chris Godsil pointed out to me yesterday that determinants over
generic rings uses expansion by minors, which is exponential. Much
better would be to use Charles Dodgson's method, which is cubic,
described in the link above. This might be a fun pro
Oh we finally cleared all doubts.
I found another paper which shows those two approaches.
www.ricam.oeaw.ac.at/conferences/aca08/Pauer.pdf
Thanks for helping.
Bye
On Aug 3, 6:00 pm, Michael Brickenstein wrote:
> Hi Simon!
> Search in the same book for "strong" Gröbner bases.
> Cheers,
> Michael
>
On 08/ 4/10 01:58 PM, Robert Miller wrote:
Is the trac server slow this week, or is it just because I'm in Canada?
Yes, I think so too, though its hard to know if it my Internet service provider,
so I would not base any conclusions on a sample of two people.
Dave
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On Aug 4, 4:44 am, ancienthart wrote:
> Hi kcrisman,
> Yes, this was the latest binary release of sage, on an ubuntu
> machine,
> sage-4.5-linux-64bit-ubuntu_10.04_lts-x86_64-Linux.tar.lzma
>
> I suspect that the only thing I need to change is the R_INCLUDE_HOME=
> lines, but when I try to get s
Is the trac server slow this week, or is it just because I'm in Canada?
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http://www.rlmiller.org/
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For more options,
Robert Bradshaw schreef:
What should be done is either fixing LazyNamedUnop to preserve
documentation, or populating these methods at class creation time
(rather than attribute lookup time, perhaps dynamically creating a
docstring for them). I don't think it's a good idea to hard code every
one o
I'm not sure what the point of a comparison function is if we don't
implement a total ordering. The main place cmp methods get used is in
sorting. If you have a large list of objects, and, for example, you
want to know whether X is in the list, you might find this out by
looping over the whole list
On 08/ 4/10 04:03 AM, François Bissey wrote:
On 8/3/2010 7:34 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote:
I think I've discovered something which should be a blocker for 4.5.2.
http://trac.sagemath.org/sage_trac/ticket/9681
Please correct me if I'm mistaken. It would not be the first time I've
been mistaken o
Although there is not a fully functioning 64-bit SPARC build of Sage, there is a
sufficiently functioning build to run doctests. One failure observed by John
Palmieri
File
"/home/palmieri/fulvia/sage-4.5.2.rc0/devel/sage-main/sage/symbolic/expression.pyx",
line 508\
8:
sage: maxima('asi
On Aug 4, 8:35 am, Robert Bradshaw
wrote:
> Personally, I always kill the documentation build 'cause it takes way
> too long.
Why not have an option?
sage -clone--> cloning without building docs
sage -clone -doc --> cloning with building docs
0.02€
Simon
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zn_poly only uses NTL for profiling. And the only time it does this is
if you explicitly build any of the *-ntl make targets. So if you
aren't building any of those in the spkg, then there is no dependency
on NTL.
Bill.
On 4 August 2010 03:42, Pat LeSmithe wrote:
> On 8/3/2010 7:34 PM, Dr. David
Hi kcrisman,
Yes, this was the latest binary release of sage, on an ubuntu
machine,
sage-4.5-linux-64bit-ubuntu_10.04_lts-x86_64-Linux.tar.lzma
I suspect that the only thing I need to change is the R_INCLUDE_HOME=
lines, but when I try to get something working, I don't like to leave
anything to ch
On 2010-08-04 09:59, Robert Bradshaw wrote:
> The new version of Pari has better error messages, though it'll be a
> bit of work to get at them.
It won't be that hard. PARI uses callbacks to write its error messages.
We just have to direct those callbacks to a function writing into
sage_signal_ha
On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 2:51 AM, Mitesh Patel wrote:
> On 07/30/2010 01:54 AM, Craig Citro wrote:
>> So we're currently working on a long-overdue release of Cython with
>> all kinds of snazzy new features. However, our automated testing
>> system seems to keep turning up sporadic segfaults when ru
On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 12:59 AM, Robert Bradshaw
wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 3:25 AM, Jeroen Demeyer wrote:
>> Hello sage-devel,
>>
>> At present, the error catching mechanism from PARI is rather bad: you
>> get exceptions like
>>
>> Traceback (most recent call last):
>> ...
>> PariError: (1
On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 3:25 AM, Jeroen Demeyer wrote:
> Hello sage-devel,
>
> At present, the error catching mechanism from PARI is rather bad: you
> get exceptions like
>
> Traceback (most recent call last):
> ...
> PariError: (15)
>
>
> I would like to change this (and created ticket #9640). W
On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 3:16 PM, koffie wrote:
> Hej all,
>
> Tnx for the explanation. I went for option number 1. It was a lot of
> coppy pasting, I see why the author chose his solution.
As the author, I should chime in. First, this has nothing to do with
category code. I did it so that real laz
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 12:22 AM, David Roe wrote:
> I use both clone and queues: if I'm working on multiple projects
> simultaneously I would prefer to have a clone for each instead of just using
> queues. This is especially important if some of my patches touch low level
> .pxd files (e.g. sage/s
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Dr. David Kirkby
wrote:
> On 08/ 3/10 06:11 PM, William Stein wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I would like to suggest an alternative approach to this problem of
>> "supported platforms".
>> How about if whenever somebody runs
>>
>> make testlong
>>
>> at the end an email
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