uesday, March 25, 2003 5:59 PM
Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
Hmmm. I'll see what I can scrounge up from the QA reject bin.
>-Original Message-
>From: Nelson, Laird [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:57 AM
>To: 'Struts Use
> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Hmmm. I'll see what I can scrounge up from the QA reject bin.
As long as it can be customized. Extensively.
Cheers,
Laird
-
To unsubscribe, e-ma
Hmmm. I'll see what I can scrounge up from the QA reject bin.
>-Original Message-
>From: Nelson, Laird [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:57 AM
>To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based projec
tre.
>-Original Message-
>From: Jeff Kyser [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:50 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
>
>
>Sounds like its time for a new tag:
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Different section of IS. The area that I'm in is responsible
> for distribution operations, so we'll schedule, pick, pack
> and ship your customised LE suit to you, but the Internet
> group will actually take your
sure you have a scrabble set handy in case they want
to see how you
calculated it... :-)
-Original Message-
From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, 26 March 2003 00:36
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
hmm. Then there is
>So no customizemylandsendsuit.com?
Different section of IS. The area that I'm in is responsible for distribution
operations, so we'll schedule, pick, pack and ship your customised LE suit to you, but
the Internet group will actually take your order. :-)
>Cheers,
>Laird
Simon
---
> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Interestingly enough, the 768hr estimate that was in my
> original post (and that I was worried was too low) has killed
> the project. The resource manager took one look at it and is
> not even planning to submit
> Interestingly enough, the 768hr estimate that was in my original
> post (and that I was worried was too low) has killed the project.
> The resource manager took one look at it and is not even planning
> to submit it for scheduling.
That's why it's important to be as accurate as possible, best th
ted it... :-)
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Wednesday, 26 March 2003 00:36
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
>
>
>hmm. Then there is but one estimate you can give...
>
Come on Andrew, 42 is much too high. Can't you trim that down a bit?
> -Original Message-
> From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: mardi 25 mars 2003 17:36
> To: Struts Users Mailing List
> Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
>
>
Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
For our initial estimate, we do not have the luxury of use-cases. Hence the
need to generate an estimate based on the smallest quantity of known data
possible.
>-Original Message-
>From: Mehra, Vishal [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
#x27;Struts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
>
>
>I would break these down to use cases and assign complexity to
>each one of
>them and then try estimating it that way.
>
>Regards,
>Vishal.
>
>
>-Original Message-
I would break these down to use cases and assign complexity to each one of
them and then try estimating it that way.
Regards,
Vishal.
-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:14 AM
To: Struts Mailing List (E-mail)
Subject: [OT]
>-Original Message-
>From: Michael Mattox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 9:47 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
>> >This sounds like a perfect scenario for eXtreme Programming.
&
>-Original Message-
>From: Andrew Hill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 9:00 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
>
>
>Well given such constraints, your most accurate estimates are
> >Hours are too fine grained.
>
> Agreed. But even when I give them estimates in days and weeks,
> they ask for them to be resubmitted in hours.
The XP approach uses "points" and velocity for scheduling. The problem with
calendar time is then the managers expect the programmers to stick to the
d
>-Original Message-
>From: Michael Mattox [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 9:03 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
>
>
>> All our estimates have to be in hours.
>
>Hours are to
Message-
From: Nelson, Laird [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 25 March 2003 23:18
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List'
Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
Importance: Low
> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Th
> -Original Message-
> From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> There is screaming and wailing and gnashing of teeth if the
> estimate is "too big".
Long post follows, but I find this stuff interesting. I'll shut up after
this. :-)
I've found time estimate discussions are us
> All our estimates have to be in hours.
Hours are too fine grained.
> There is screaming and wailing and gnashing of teeth if the
> estimate is "too
> big".
> We are not a software house, so the business gets to set schedules.
> We are a HIGHLY seasonal business, this forces many scheduling dec
ed with to get the
real estimate of total work...)
-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, 25 March 2003 22:38
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
These have all been good suggestions, but I am cons
These have all been good suggestions, but I am constrained here by a number of factors.
All our estimates have to be in hours.
There is screaming and wailing and gnashing of teeth if the estimate is "too big".
We are not a software house, so the business gets to set schedules.
We are a HIGHLY seas
Two other estimate tips:
1. Give your estimate using a range (preferably one that means something
- e.g. soonest to latest around some likely date; you could get fancy
and use standard deviations and ...)
2. Don't give overly precise estimates, for example
< 10 days, use days
< 6 weeks, use wee
age to recommend that a 2 month project be
budgeted for 4 years, although there are times when I wish I had. :-)
Jefficus
- Original Message -
From: "David Graham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 3:51 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Esti
available.
-Original Message-
From: David Graham [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 5:52 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
But how close were your estimates? You didn't say how far below the
estimate you usually ended up.
NEVER
gone over estimate with this method and I have been only been over by more
than 20% 3 times in about 80 projects.
Sad but true.
Jefficus
- Original Message -
From: "Mark Galbreath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROT
ut 80 projects.
Sad but true.
Jefficus
- Original Message -
From: "Mark Galbreath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'Struts Users Mailing List'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 10:31 AM
Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
W-H-A-A-T? I can't hear you. Can you speak up?!
-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 12:39 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
I usually triple them, but there's
uts Users Mailing List'
>Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
>
>
>Okay, now double your estimate and you have a starting figure.
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 12:21 PM
>To: Str
Okay, now double your estimate and you have a starting figure.
-Original Message-
From: Chappell, Simon P [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 12:21 PM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: RE: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
>-Original Mess
>-Original Message-
>From: James Mitchell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 11:18 AM
>To: Struts Users Mailing List
>Subject: Re: [OT] Estimating a Struts-based project
>Did you factor in the time for writing/maintaining tests?
I'm hurt
On Mon, 2003-03-24 at 12:14, Chappell, Simon P wrote:
> I have just completed an initial estimate for a Struts-based web application. I am
> curious as to what estimation methods folks out there use for their initial
> estimates. The revised estimate will be delivered after more analysis is perfo
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