Thanks Joe.
>Hi Keith;
>
>Most often the process comes to 95% or more complete and that is
>good enough for me ( personal choice) and doesn't give me wash
>problems either. Maybe 20% of the time it only gets to somewhere
>around 90% and this is a problem. It tends to be most likely to
>happe
Hi Keith;
Most often the process comes to 95% or more complete and that is good
enough for me ( personal choice) and doesn't give me wash problems
either. Maybe 20% of the time it only gets to somewhere around 90% and
this is a problem. It tends to be most likely to happen when the
feedstoc
ater...
Best
Keith
> Tom
>
>
>
>- Original Message -
>From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To:
>Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:53 AM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
>
>
Hi Joe
>Hi Keith;
>
>See my answers below.
>
>Keith Addison wrote:
>
>>
>>Well, settling time is free.
>>
>>Acid-base aside, there's the two-stage base-base process, which quite
>>a lot of people use and like, but otherwise why do more than one
>>stage? Do you mean two separate stages, with a
Tom
- Original Message -
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
> Hi Tom
>
>>Hi Keith,
>>
>> > Then if you
Hi Keith;
See my answers below.
Keith Addison wrote:
Well, settling time is free.
Acid-base aside, there's the two-stage base-base process, which quite
a lot of people use and like, but otherwise why do more than one
stage? Do you mean two separate stages, with a methanol test in
betw
actually do measurements and
everything.
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi Jan;
Ok your post agree
- Original Message -
*From:* Joe Street <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
<mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
*Sent:* Friday, August 10, 2007 3:45 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi Jan;
Ok your post a
Hello to All,
This is an attempt to get things in focus for myself at least.
I think this topic started with Re:"Biodiesel Quality Test"
On 8/7/07 Mike W. stated that he allows his batches to settle for a week
before washing; No problems with wash.
On 8/7/07
I agreed, stated an obse
fat phanse and an
aquaeus phase, possibly with the salts in the bottom.'
Best regards
Jan
- Original Message -
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi Jan;
Ok your
Message -
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi Jan;
Ok your post agrees with what Andres said. So how do we explain Tom's
experiment then? To recap (Tom correct me if I
lsifiers.
Only small amounts of these are sufficient to create stable emulsions. Would
somebody agree with me on that ?
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message -
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glyce
EMAIL PROTECTED]>Andres Secco
>To: <mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>biofuel@sustainablelists.org
>Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:55 PM
>Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
>
>Joe,
>For the sake of precise concepts, gliceryn is NOT an emulsifier.
>Emul
riday, August 10, 2007 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
> Hi Tom
>
>>Hi Keith,
>>
>> > Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy
>> > batches of oil,
>>
>>Ops.
>>
>> I took Joe's p
ch to you,
>I just had a garden pizza with Brocolli, zucchini, green peppers, sliced
>tomato, and chopped (v. mild) hot peppers.
>
>
>MMm Mm
:-) Great Tom! A big lunch definitely helps when it comes to broad
horizons. But quite often it's quicker just to amb
ced
tomato, and chopped (v. mild) hot peppers.
MMm Mm
Tom
- Original Message -
From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 3:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
> Hi Joe
>
&g
gust 09, 2007 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Kewl Tom;
You are ans experimentalist like myself. How much oil/ water and how many
drops of glycerol did it take to create the emulsion?
Joe
Thomas Kelly wrote:
Andres,
>Emulsifiers contains a c
ge -
*From:* Andres Secco <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
<mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
*Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:55 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Joe,
For the sake of pr
mulsifier.
Am I missing something?
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Andres Secco
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Joe,
For the sake of
Hi Joe
>Tom;
>
>It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier. Have you ever tried
>dosing the batch again with a little methoxide? After you remove
>the glycerin it doesn't take much to get the last bit of the
>reaction to go and settle out the remaining glycerin. Of course
>this is well known
solved in the BD and separates from the liquid BD phase
with time.
- Original Message -
*From:* Joe Street <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
*To:* biofuel@sustainablelists.org
<mailto:biofuel@sustainablelists.org>
*Sent:* Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:30 AM
*S
August 09, 2007 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Joe,
For the sake of precise concepts, gliceryn is NOT an emulsifier. Emulsifiers
contains a clear lipofilic and hidrofilic zones in the molecule. Which is an
emulsifier is the partially reacted mono or di-glicerides,
.
Glycerin is dissolved in the BD and separates from the liquid BD phase with
time.
- Original Message -
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Tom;
It makes sense. Glycerin is an
See below
Thomas Kelly wrote:
Joe,
You wrote:
"Have you ever tried dosing the batch again with a little methoxide?
After you remove the glycerin it doesn't take much to get the last bit
of the reaction to go and settle out the remaining glycerin."
I've been concerned about the exce
ust 09, 2007 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Joe,
You wrote:
"Have you ever tried dosing the batch again with a little methoxide? After
you remove the glycerin it doesn't take much to get the last bit of the
reaction to go and settle out the re
caustic than
my simple (some would say "primitive") single stage base method.
Big Lunch,
Tom
- Original Message -
From: Joe Street
To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Thursday, August 09, 2007 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Tom
Tom;
It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier. Have you ever tried dosing
the batch again with a little methoxide? After you remove the glycerin
it doesn't take much to get the last bit of the reaction to go and
settle out the remaining glycerin. Of course this is well known
already. Ken
Hello,
I have 2 advise for you
1. build a reactor with cone-shaped bottom, and
insulate it well,
2. Start draining the by product as soon as you
practically can ( 99% of glicerin separates within 2 hors)
You may still have problems with draining (
especially to st
Greg,
On 4/1/06 you asked:
"Is anybody willing to talk about the ammonia process to make the mulch
additive?"
Here's my take on
it.
The glycerin mix that we
drain from the BD contains Glycerin, Fatty Acids (as soaps?) Methanol, and
Lye.
The mix can be
cracked (see JtF)
>You mean I can't just do like Google? No wonder I'm not having any
>luck! No substitute for tunnel vision, eh?
:-) Google's quite a good substitute for tunnel vision. LOL!
Google and the list archives both use a simple search, though Google
does some other things with it too, but the big diffe
iday, March 31, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine use and other fancy stuff
Hey Greg ;
If I run my reactor (which has a 1500 watt element but is a 220 volt
unit running on 110v) I am consuming 350 watts and current wisdom says
to allow 1 hr or more for the reaction so that's 350
ould be avoided
if separation was compete in 1 hour vs. 24 hours
Keep going
Andrew
- Original Message -
From: "Joe Street" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine use and other fancy stuff
Hey Greg ;
I
6 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine use and other fancy stuff
> Hey Greg ;
>
> If I run my reactor (which has a 1500 watt element but is a 220 volt
> unit running on 110v) I am consuming 350 watts and current wisdom says
> to allow 1 hr or more for the reaction so that's 350
Hey Greg ;
If I run my reactor (which has a 1500 watt element but is a 220 volt
unit running on 110v) I am consuming 350 watts and current wisdom says
to allow 1 hr or more for the reaction so that's 350 Wh of energy used.
If I use a 300 watt US generator and the reaction completes in 10
minu
Hello Greg
>I am very interested in finding a use for the glycerine made by the reaction.
Have you looked at this?
http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_glycerin.html
Glycerine
>I don't need that much soap and the local companies I have called
>have not been interested. The idea of using ammon
It will change the equation equilibrium slightly. Don't know if anyone
has done any analysis as to how much, theoretically or in reality.
Depends on how much is re-included in your next reaction.
You should have your processor set up to drain completely, or within a
few fluid ounces or so.
T
Yes ,it most certainly will. Glycerine
residues will have an impact on the equivalence balance for next reaction, that
most probably will produce less biodiesel.
Contaminations in general are not good for
biodiesel production either.
With best regards
Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB
[EMAIL PROTECT
Hello Marcelino,
- Original Message -
From:
Quimica Nova SA
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 5:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine as
fuel
Hello Balaji, Hello Bill,
in spite of having a large supply of natural gas
in
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine as
fuel
Hello Bill.
If the purpose of gasification is
only providing thermal energy for the chicken house with the disposal of
chicken manure (and glycerine) as added bonus, the biomass could be
gasified with a simple updraft gasifier, This will
Hello Bill.
If the purpose of gasification is
only providing thermal energy for the chicken house with the disposal of chicken
manure (and glycerine) as added bonus, the biomass could be
gasified with a simple updraft gasifier, This will certainly produce
more tars but these can be burnt i
Thanks Todd, That was extremely helpful.
Bill
- Original Message -
From: "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 9:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine as fuel
> Bill,
>
> One would imagine that a gasifier would reduce all
Sorry, error in my last post.
>...I am running a wvo to biodiesel project for
the City of Eufaula, >AL. I produce about 600 gal. of biodiesel per week
...
Should read "... I am running a biodiesel project
for the City of Eufaula. I can produce about 600 gal. of biodiesel per
week..."
S
Acrolein is a co-/by-product of incomplete combustion of glycerol. One
would think that at ~2,000* F (the "Wood Gun") the combustion process
would be complete.
Todd Swearingen
R Del Bueno wrote:
Any concerns to possible toxic emissions...as with the concern of some
SVOers?
I have heard that
Any concerns to possible toxic emissions...as with the concern of some SVOers?
I have heard that some nasty toxins are produced by the burning of crude
glycerin..although I have no data on it.
Perhaps it is temperature (of combustion) related..and hence not an issue
with a gasifier?
At 10:13
Bill,
One would imagine that a gasifier would reduce all components of the
glyc cocktail to syn gas and char.
Gasification is a novel thought to reducing that waste/co-product to
nill though. No addition of anything. No chemical refining. No new
energy inputs. No disposal problem with the re
Let me just make sure I had all the details first, since some things
were left unsaid and require assumptions. If I read what you are
saying correctly, I agree with Keith on this one and it doesn't appear
viable.
1)You make BioD with the Lye/methanol method
2)Separate out the BioD from the glyce
;settle for less foaming soap.
> >
> >AntiFossil
> >Mike Krafka USA
> >
> >
> >- Original Message -
> >From: "Phillip Wolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:21 PM
&
e the hydrating oils like olive, and
settle for less foaming soap.
AntiFossil
Mike Krafka USA
- Original Message -
From: "Phillip Wolfe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
Luc
- Original Message -
From: "Legal Eagle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 6:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
G'day Pieter;
What I am doing here is experimenting in an attempt to make t
riginal Message -
From: "Pieter Koole" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 3:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
Hi,
Thanks for writing some about making soap from the glycerin by-product.
You write about 10 grams (or
Hi,
Thanks for writing some about making soap from the glycerin by-product.
You write about 10 grams (or more) of NaOH per liter of glyc.
How or what do you count the already used amount of NaOH during the BD
proces, which we find back in the by-product ?
Met dank en vriendelijke groet,
Pieter
becomes of it once it has cured for
awhile.
Luc
- Original Message -
From: "Anti-Fossil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 9:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
I have been making my own soap for about 14 yea
lt;[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
> Dear Legal Eagle,
>
> There is an industrial and commercial method of using
> refined glycerin for the manufacturing of natural
> soaps and detergents (and the harsher soaps t
- Original Message -
From: "Michael Redler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine soap making
Hi Luc and everyone,
I forwarded your email to my girlfriend. I thought she might
As you know I'm a bit sceptical but do not seek to discourage! I'm
most interested to see what you achieve.
What to do with the copious amounts of glycerine by product ? We can
follow through with the seperation of the components an get a close
to pure glycerine, providing we have a market
Hi Luc and everyone,
I forwarded your email to my girlfriend. I thought she might have something to
say about all this "biofuel stuff". Anyway, she's pretty knowledgeable (PhD in
chemistry - Dartmuth) and has a few comments about the process you are
suggesting.
If I developed a similar proc
Dear Legal Eagle,
There is an industrial and commercial method of using
refined glycerin for the manufacturing of natural
soaps and detergents (and the harsher soaps too).
As JFT advocates, there is a personal quest too -
making your own stuff.
In the industrial and commercial world there is a
Hi Todd and all
Methanol recovery depends on the circumstances, whether it's worth it
or not and at which stage you do it. Three options:
1. Recover from the whole batch, biodiesel, by-product and all, at
some stage after processing.
2. Recover from the by-product, which contains most of the
ad tanker loads. I think I'd rather see it go towards the
manufacture of natural urethanes than as sweetener for carmeled soda water.
Todd Swearingen
- Original Message -
From: "Ken Provost" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:35 PM
Su
on 10/30/03 5:36 PM, Appal Energy at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> And even when all things are said and done? The
> cost of testing and insuring (liability) that the
> recovered product is food or cosmetic grade is one
> of the higher costs in the entire process. Tech grade
> is a much less invol
Martin,
Thin film evaporators (industriall "wiped thin film" evaporators are used)
and vacuum are a must for glycerol.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0624.htm
Fifteen mm Hg is not an exceptionally strong vacuum. There are ~760 mm Hg
per atmosphere. However, fifteen inches would be
Helow Greg and April
Surely it will produce biogas, but you need to be careful about salts, acids
alchol contenet within correct limit together with C/N ratio.there are good
experimental work
work about the use of fatty oil in biodigestion , all metabolized via
glicerol.But you also need
>Can anyone tell me how I can purify the glycerin by product from
>making biodiesel ?
>
>Met vriendelijke groeten,
>Pieter Koole
Dag Pieter
It's not really a glycerin by-product, it's a "variable mixture of
glycerine, soaps, excess methanol, and the catalyst (lye)":
http://journeytoforever.org
0>
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2003 11:39 AM
Subject: re [biofuel] glycerine
> If you burn straight VO , are you releasing acrolein?
>
> Is it better to deal with the nastiness of this vs the nastiness of using
> Methanol to convert
> to Biodiesel.?
>
> what about if there
If you burn straight VO , are you releasing acrolein?
Is it better to deal with the nastiness of this vs the nastiness of using
Methanol to convert
to Biodiesel.?
what about if there is a cat converter?
thanks
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Biofuels
cid, butyl, and ethyl alcohol. With
another form of bacterium (Bacillus subtilis) ethyl alcohol and
butyric acid are mainly formed."
Todd Swearingen
- Original Message -
From: Appal Energy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:04 PM
Sub
> What does "prime with sugar" mean?
Add a small amount of table sugar to get the yeasty beasties to
start digesting.
Todd Swearingen
- Original Message -
From: studio53 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerin
Does such a suggestion mean that you're not seeking any type of
residency at your local intentional community?
:-\
Bread not Bombs.
Todd
- Original Message -
From: Ken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerine use
&g
Anyone know of any government agency that might want to buy all that
glycerine. -> make into bombs and stuff.
add nitric acid to glycerine and shake like crazy. =D Don't do if with
your hand ofcourse. Make something like what the bomb squad use to get rid
of bombs.
to soap.
>
> Todd Swearingen
> - Original Message -----
> From: Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerine use
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --
alized catalyst can be used as fertilizer if the catalyst
was KOH.
Recovered FFAs can be esterified into biodiesel, used as raw fuel
or converted back into soap.
Todd Swearingen
- Original Message -
From: Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2002 2:53 PM
Christopher Price asks:
>What does glycerine biodegrade into?
Don't know the intermediates, but the
endproducts would be CO2 and H20:
2 C3H8O3 + 7 O2 ---> 6 CO2 + 8 H2O
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -~-->
Buy Stock for $4
and no minimums.
FREE Money 2002.
What does glycerine biodegrade into?
>From: Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [biofuel] glycerine use
>Date: Thu, 30 May 2002 11:53:48 -0700
>
>Paddy at Goat writes:
>
> >As with a lo
Paddy at Goat writes:
>As with a lot of info on the net, there seems to be a lot of contradictions.
>Glycerin has been said to be a valuable biproduct, but retails at £750.00
>per tonne (GBP) ex Albion chemicals, UK, which is not that fantastic for
>the producer. Other possibilities discussed hav
what i would like to know is how to figure out how much methoxide to treat
the glyc pretreated oil...
anton
-Original Message-
From: Paul Gobert [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, February 22, 2002 1:10 AM
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Glycerine pretreat
- Original Message -
From: "t_watchornnz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Thursday, February 21, 2002 6:03 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Glycerine pretreat
t, haven't progressed very far with my investigation of this.
> I did try mixing 1 litre of glycerine with 1 litre of used Canola oil
> at
Paul,
My pleasure.
Craig
You wrote:
> Thanks Craig, bit of a slip up on my part, out of practise I guess, haven't
> posted anything for a while.
>
> Also forgot to include that the BD made from the WCSO I used for pretreat
> test usually has an SG of around 0.8850. This will give an indicatio
- Original Message -
From: "craig reece" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2001 11:10 AM
Subject: [biofuel] Glycerine pretreat (was Why people like SUVs
> Paul,
>
> Just a suggestion - change the subject line. What you posted - the
(valuable)
> results of your glycer
yews, thanks craig.
On to the actual sbject: ibought a nice SS vacuum vessel, and want to do all
sorts of neat things with it, includung pressure and gheat for the BD
process, and also for the glycerin pretreat...
I'll keep you posted, but iam way too busy so don't hold your breath (s)
anton
- Original Message -
From: "Jan Surwka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Information for Paul,
>
> Maybe instead of bothering with glycerine as fuel one could use it as
a...fertilizer .
> I have heard that glycerine after diluting with water can be used a soil
nutrient
> jan
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> "I wouldn't bank on receipts for crude glycerin to make a business plan
>> work.
>> In house refining or conversion maybe."
>
> That's what I'm being told, so I'm looking into products FROM glycerine
> that have a larger market and/or higher marke
yes please!
Steve Spence
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Marc,
Lots of interest here!
Am I to understand that this has potential to lower
energy requirments for alcohol production including
ethanol?
If so the ethanol cooperatives in MN would be hugely
interested as it would serve to "delink" ethanol
production with natural gas prices. What a coup if
Hi Marc
>I am hugely gratified by the interest in this on the List. I inquired
>first because I feared that either this would already be common
>knowledge or nobody would care.
It doesn't mean much, but I for one certainly didn't know it, and I
really do care! It's most interesting, very good f
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