Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 25.06.2016 um 22:03 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : > > > > Regards > (From mobile) > >> On Jun 25, 2016, at 8:48 PM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: >> >> >>> Am 25.06.2016 um 19:09 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> (From mobile) >>> On Jun 25, 2016, at 6:34 PM, Thorsten Sei

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Regards (From mobile) > On Jun 25, 2016, at 8:48 PM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > >> Am 25.06.2016 um 19:09 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : >> >> >> >> Regards >> (From mobile) >> >>> On Jun 25, 2016, at 6:34 PM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >>> wrote: >>> >>> Sorry for the late reply — I h

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 25.06.2016 um 19:09 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : > > > > Regards > (From mobile) > > On Jun 25, 2016, at 6:34 PM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution > mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote: > >> Sorry for the late reply — I had hoped to be able to think more deeply about >> various point

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Regards (From mobile) > On Jun 25, 2016, at 6:34 PM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution > wrote: > > Sorry for the late reply — I had hoped to be able to think more deeply about > various points, > but I’m going to delay that instead of delaying the reply even more :-) > > >> Am 17.06.201

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Sorry for the late reply — I had hoped to be able to think more deeply about various points, but I’m going to delay that instead of delaying the reply even more :-) > Am 17.06.2016 um 19:04 schrieb Dave Abrahams : > > > on Thu Jun 16 2016, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > >>> Am 13.06.2016 um 04:04

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 12, 2016, at 8:31 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: > > > on Sat Jun 11 2016, Jonathan Hull wrote: > >>> If your code has many manual type erasing wrappers corresponding to >>> protocols with associated types and/or Self requirements that also never >>> have to trap type mismatches, that woul

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 19, 2016, at 8:35 AM, Douglas Gregor via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Jun 18, 2016, at 2:29 AM, Thorsten Seitz > wrote: > >> >>> Am 17.06.2016 um 16:11 schrieb Douglas Gregor >> >: >>> >>>

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 18, 2016, at 2:29 AM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > >>> Am 17.06.2016 um 16:11 schrieb Douglas Gregor : >>> >>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 9:46 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution wrote: > Am 16.06.2016 um 17:36 schrieb Paul Cantrell : >

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 17.06.2016 um 16:11 schrieb Douglas Gregor : > > >> On Jun 16, 2016, at 9:46 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >> mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote: >> >>> >>> Am 16.06.2016 um 17:36 schrieb Paul Cantrell >> >: >>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:29 AM,

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 17, 2016, at 7:04 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > on Thu Jun 16 2016, Thorsten Seitz > wrote: > >>> Am 13.06.2016 um 04:04 schrieb Dave Abrahams : >>> >>> >>> on Fri Jun 10 2016, Thorsten Seitz wrote: >>> > Am 09.06.2016 u

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Thu Jun 16 2016, Thorsten Seitz wrote: >> Am 13.06.2016 um 04:04 schrieb Dave Abrahams : >> >> >> on Fri Jun 10 2016, Thorsten Seitz wrote: >> Am 09.06.2016 um 19:50 schrieb Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution : > Am 09.06.2016 um 18:49 schrieb Dave Abrahams via

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 9:46 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution > wrote: > >> >> Am 16.06.2016 um 17:36 schrieb Paul Cantrell > >: >> >>> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >>> mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote: >>> >>> Protoc

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 16.06.2016 um 17:36 schrieb Paul Cantrell : > >> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >> mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote: >> >> Protocols are a mechanism for deriving types from each other whereas >> generics are a way to parameterize types. My point wa

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 5:36 PM, Paul Cantrell via swift-evolution > wrote: > >> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >> wrote: >> >> Protocols are a mechanism for deriving types from each other whereas >> generics are a way to parameterize types. My point was that

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:55 AM, Paul Cantrell via swift-evolution > wrote: > > Right. Is that it? Are associated types really just generic protocols + > single conformance constraint + type params inferred / implied? A protocol and its associated types form a "package" or "group" of types that

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 3:29 PM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > >> Am 13.06.2016 um 04:04 schrieb Dave Abrahams : >> >> >> on Fri Jun 10 2016, Thorsten Seitz wrote: >> Am 09.06.2016 um 19:50 schrieb Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution : > Am 09.

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 10:50 AM, Matthew Johnson wrote: > >> >> On Jun 16, 2016, at 10:36 AM, Paul Cantrell via swift-evolution >> mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote: >> >> This has been a point of confusion for me as well. I keep hearing that >> associated types are different from gene

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 10:36 AM, Paul Cantrell via swift-evolution > wrote: > >> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >> mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote: >> >> Protocols are a mechanism for deriving types from each other whereas >> generics are a way to par

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 16, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution > wrote: > > Protocols are a mechanism for deriving types from each other whereas generics > are a way to parameterize types. My point was that Swift's other way to > parameterize types, namely by associated types, is very simil

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 13.06.2016 um 04:04 schrieb Dave Abrahams : > > > on Fri Jun 10 2016, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > >>> Am 09.06.2016 um 19:50 schrieb Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >>> : >>> >>> Am 09.06.2016 um 18:49 schrieb Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution : >> on Wed Jun 08

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

I had decided to watch from the sideline, but a couple things push me to say something > On Jun 13, 2016, at 4:04 AM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > on Fri Jun 10 2016, Thorsten Seitz > wrote: > >>> Am 09.06.2016 um 19:50 schrieb Thorsten S

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Hello Dave, Sent from my iPhone > On 13 Jun 2016, at 03:04, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > on Fri Jun 10 2016, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > >>> Am 09.06.2016 um 19:50 schrieb Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >>> : >>> >>> Am 09.06.2016 um 18:49 schrieb Dave Abrahams v

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Sat Jun 11 2016, Jonathan Hull wrote: >> If your code has many manual type erasing wrappers corresponding to >> protocols with associated types and/or Self requirements that also never >> have to trap type mismatches, that would certainly be instructive >> empirical data. Would you care to s

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Sun Jun 12 2016, L Mihalkovic wrote: > My understanding is that dave is the type system designer. That would be a misunderstanding. I am a contributor, but other people take the lead on the type system. -- Dave ___ swift-evolution mailing list s

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Fri Jun 10 2016, Thorsten Seitz wrote: >> Am 09.06.2016 um 19:50 schrieb Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >> : >> >> >>> Am 09.06.2016 um 18:49 schrieb Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution >>> : >>> > >>> >>> on Wed Jun 08 2016, Jordan Rose wrote: >>> > On Jun 8, 2016, at 13:16, Da

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 12.06.2016 um 17:40 schrieb L Mihalkovic : > >> >> On Jun 12, 2016, at 4:05 PM, Thorsten Seitz > > wrote: >> >>> >>> Am 12.06.2016 um 09:21 schrieb L. Mihalkovic >> >: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> (From mobile) >>> On

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 12, 2016, at 4:05 PM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > >> >> Am 12.06.2016 um 09:21 schrieb L. Mihalkovic > >: >> >> >> >> >> Regards >> (From mobile) >> On Jun 11, 2016, at 11:43 PM, Thorsten Seitz > > wrote: >> >>> >>> >>

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 12, 2016, at 4:05 PM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > >> Am 12.06.2016 um 09:21 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : >> >> >> >> >> Regards >> (From mobile) >> On Jun 11, 2016, at 11:43 PM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: >> >>> >>> Am 11.06.2016 um 15:08 schrieb L. Mihalkovic :

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Regards (From mobile) > On Jun 11, 2016, at 11:43 PM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > > >> Am 11.06.2016 um 15:08 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : >> >> >>> On Jun 11, 2016, at 2:05 PM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: >>> >>> Am 11.06.2016 um 12:38 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : > On Jun 11,

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 11.06.2016 um 15:08 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : > > >> On Jun 11, 2016, at 2:05 PM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: >> >> >>> Am 11.06.2016 um 12:38 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : >>> >>> On Jun 11, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > Am 11.06.2016 um 08:00 schrieb L. Mihalkov

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Am 11.06.2016 um 14:48 schrieb Brent Royal-Gordon : >> Functions and tuples are structural types, although it is probably possible >> to make tuples syntactic sugar for a Tuple type of we get the necessary >> variadic generics support. > > The design the variadic generics thread seems to have

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 11.06.2016 um 14:44 schrieb Matthew Johnson : > > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jun 11, 2016, at 7:31 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >> wrote: >> >> Am 11.06.2016 um 14:23 schrieb Brent Royal-Gordon : The only magic would be that all type definitions (`protoco

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 11, 2016, at 8:46 PM, Brent Royal-Gordon > wrote: > >>> That's certainly a valid question. I have been very vocally skeptical >>> that HKTs like Monad belong in the standard library, but I am not >>> opposed to having the language feature if it supports important use >>> cases. >> >>

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

>> That's certainly a valid question. I have been very vocally skeptical >> that HKTs like Monad belong in the standard library, but I am not >> opposed to having the language feature if it supports important use >> cases. > > It is surprising to see people debating the place of monads in Swift w

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

>> >> Of course not. The only official plan of record for Swift is approved >> proposals. But it’s always interesting to know the opinions of the >> core team about potential features. Previously my impression had been >> that the general leaning was towards skepticism that the practical >> ben

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 11, 2016, at 3:03 PM, Matthew Johnson via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jun 10, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution >> wrote: >> >> >> on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson >> wrote: >> On Jun 9, 2016, at 3:05 PM, Dave Abrahams

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Sent from my iPad On Jun 11, 2016, at 7:48 AM, Brent Royal-Gordon wrote: >> Functions and tuples are structural types, although it is probably possible >> to make tuples syntactic sugar for a Tuple type of we get the necessary >> variadic generics support. > > The design the variadic generi

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 11, 2016, at 2:31 PM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > >>> Am 11.06.2016 um 14:23 schrieb Brent Royal-Gordon : >>> >>> The only magic would be that all type definitions (`protocol` etc.) which >>> do not give a supertype they conform to, will implicitly conform to `Any`, >>> i.e. >>> >>>

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 11, 2016, at 2:05 PM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > >> Am 11.06.2016 um 12:38 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : >> >> >>> On Jun 11, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: >>> >>> Am 11.06.2016 um 08:00 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : Regards (From mobile)

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Sent from my iPad > On Jun 10, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson > wrote: > >>> On Jun 9, 2016, at 3:05 PM, Dave Abrahams >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: >> > On Jun 9, 2016, a

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Functions and tuples are structural types, although it is probably possible > to make tuples syntactic sugar for a Tuple type of we get the necessary > variadic generics support. The design the variadic generics thread seems to have preliminarily settled on is based on representing variadic g

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Yikes! I had intended to call rhs._value in ==. Thank you :-) You saved me a lot of debugging time. I ended up fixing with your version. You can see why I would love to have Swift do the thunk-ing for me… less opportunity to shoot myself in the foot with Any. Thanks, Jon > On Jun 11, 2016,

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Sent from my iPad > On Jun 11, 2016, at 7:31 AM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution > wrote: > > >>> Am 11.06.2016 um 14:23 schrieb Brent Royal-Gordon : >>> >>> The only magic would be that all type definitions (`protocol` etc.) which >>> do not give a supertype they conform to, will impli

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 11.06.2016 um 14:23 schrieb Brent Royal-Gordon : > >> The only magic would be that all type definitions (`protocol` etc.) which do >> not give a supertype they conform to, will implicitly conform to `Any`, i.e. >> >> protocol Foo { … } >> >> means >> >> protocol Foo : Any { … } > > Any

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 11.06.2016 um 13:22 schrieb Jonathan Hull via swift-evolution > : > > Here is another example from a current project: (Here there is an option to > trap, if desired… but many more options not to) > (Note: The commented out bit was an attempt to get the compiler to play nicer > with intuit

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> The only magic would be that all type definitions (`protocol` etc.) which do > not give a supertype they conform to, will implicitly conform to `Any`, i.e. > > protocol Foo { … } > > means > > protocol Foo : Any { … } Any is also the supertype of all structural types, and structural types ca

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 11.06.2016 um 12:38 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : > > >> On Jun 11, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: >> >> >>> Am 11.06.2016 um 08:00 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> (From mobile) On Jun 10, 2016, at 9:35 PM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution wr

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Here is another example from a current project: (Here there is an option to trap, if desired… but many more options not to) (Note: The commented out bit was an attempt to get the compiler to play nicer with intuiting the type, but it didn’t help… leaving as data) struct HashableBox:Hashable {

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 11, 2016, at 11:30 AM, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > > >> Am 11.06.2016 um 08:00 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : >> >> >> >> >> Regards >> (From mobile) >>> On Jun 10, 2016, at 9:35 PM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >>> wrote: >>> >>> Am 09.06.2016 um 19:50 schrieb Thorsten Seitz v

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> If your code has many manual type erasing wrappers corresponding to > protocols with associated types and/or Self requirements that also never > have to trap type mismatches, that would certainly be instructive > empirical data. Would you care to share the protocols and wrappers you > are talki

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 11.06.2016 um 08:00 schrieb L. Mihalkovic : > > > > > Regards > (From mobile) >> On Jun 10, 2016, at 9:35 PM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >> wrote: >> >> >>> Am 09.06.2016 um 19:50 schrieb Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >>> : >>> >>> Am 09.06.2016 um 18:49 schrieb D

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Regards (From mobile) > On Jun 10, 2016, at 9:35 PM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution > wrote: > > >> Am 09.06.2016 um 19:50 schrieb Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution >> : >> >> >>> Am 09.06.2016 um 18:49 schrieb Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution >>> : >>> >>> >>> on Wed Jun 08 2016

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: >> On Jun 9, 2016, at 3:05 PM, Dave Abrahams >> wrote: >> >> >> on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: >> > On Jun 9, 2016, at 11:42 AM, Dave Abrahams wrote: on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson >>>

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 09.06.2016 um 19:50 schrieb Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution > : > > >> Am 09.06.2016 um 18:49 schrieb Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution >> : >> >> >> on Wed Jun 08 2016, Jordan Rose wrote: >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 13:16, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution wrote:

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 3:05 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: > > > on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: > >>> On Jun 9, 2016, at 11:42 AM, Dave Abrahams wrote: >>> >>> >>> on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson >> > wrote: >>> >> > On Jun 9, 2016, at 9:55

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: >> On Jun 9, 2016, at 11:42 AM, Dave Abrahams wrote: >> >> >> on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson > > wrote: >> > On Jun 9, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Dave Abrahams >>> > wrote:

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 7:29 PM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution > wrote: > > >> Am 09.06.2016 um 00:18 schrieb Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution >> mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>>: >> >> Exactly. But much simpler cases will also either have to trap at >> runtime or be prohibited outrigh

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 7:50 PM, Thorsten Seitz via swift-evolution > wrote: > > >> Am 09.06.2016 um 18:49 schrieb Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution >> : >> >> >> on Wed Jun 08 2016, Jordan Rose wrote: >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 13:16, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution wrote: >>>

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 6:49 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > on Wed Jun 08 2016, Jordan Rose wrote: > >>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 13:16, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> on Wed Jun 08 2016, Thorsten Seitz >> >>> >> >

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 4:55 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > on Wed Jun 08 2016, Matthew Johnson > wrote: > >>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: >>> >>> >>> on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: >>> >> > On J

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 9:42 AM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > If your code has many manual type erasing wrappers corresponding to > protocols with associated types and/or Self requirements that also never > have to trap type mismatches, that would certainly be instructive > em

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 09.06.2016 um 19:24 schrieb Austin Zheng via swift-evolution > : > > On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote: > > on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: > > > >> > >>> Introducing a language (not library) mechanism

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 09.06.2016 um 18:49 schrieb Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > : > > > on Wed Jun 08 2016, Jordan Rose wrote: > >>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 13:16, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> on Wed Jun 08 2016, Thorsten Seitz >> >>> >> > >>>

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 09.06.2016 um 00:18 schrieb Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > : > > Exactly. But much simpler cases will also either have to trap at > runtime or be prohibited outright: > > func subscript_(c: C, i: C.Index) -> C.Collection.Element { >return c[i] > } > typealias IntCollection =

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 11:42 AM, Dave Abrahams wrote: > > > on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson > wrote: > >>> On Jun 9, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Dave Abrahams >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> on Wed Jun 08 2016, Matthew Johnson >>

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 9:42 AM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution < swift-evolution@swift.org> wrote: > > on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: > > >> > >>> Introducing a language (not library) mechanism that exposes members on > >>> generalized existentials in a way that relies on runtime

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 09.06.2016 um 00:13 schrieb Matthew Johnson via swift-evolution > : > > >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Austin Zheng > > wrote: >> >> FWIW my opinion is that existentials either shouldn't be allowed to stand in >> for generic type parameters, or Dave's option

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Wed Jun 08 2016, Jordan Rose wrote: >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 13:16, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution >> wrote: >> >> >> on Wed Jun 08 2016, Thorsten Seitz > >> > > >> wrote: >> >>> Ah, thanks, I forgot! I still consider this a bug, though (will have >>> to

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Thu Jun 09 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: >> On Jun 9, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Dave Abrahams wrote: >> >> >> on Wed Jun 08 2016, Matthew Johnson > > wrote: >> > On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew J

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 08.06.2016 um 23:37 schrieb Austin Zheng via swift-evolution > : > > func doSomething(x: T, y: T) { > // Get indexes out of x and use them to index into y > var idx = x.startIndex > while (idx != x.endIndex || idx != y.endIndex) { > print(x[idx]) >

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Yes, you were correct. Thanks for spotting that and apologies for not acknowledging you sooner. Austin On Thu, Jun 9, 2016 at 1:13 AM, L. Mihalkovic wrote: > > On Jun 9, 2016, at 8:06 AM, Austin Zheng wrote: > > According to that code (which is in Decl.cpp), AnyObject (and Any) > conforms to i

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Dave Abrahams wrote: > > > on Wed Jun 08 2016, Matthew Johnson > wrote: > >>> On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: >>> >>> >>> on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: >>> >> > On Jun 7, 2016, at 9:15 PM,

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Wed Jun 08 2016, Austin Zheng wrote: > On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: > >> >> on Wed Jun 08 2016, Austin Zheng wrote: >> >> > FWIW my opinion is that existentials either shouldn't be allowed to stand >> > in for generic type parameters, or Dave's option #1 if they are.

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Wed Jun 08 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: >> >> >> on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: >> > On Jun 7, 2016, at 9:15 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson >>>

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 8, 2016, at 11:52 PM, Russ Bishop wrote: > >> >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution >> mailto:swift-evolution@swift.org>> wrote: >> >> Exactly. But much simpler cases will also either have to trap at >> runtime or be prohibited outright: >> >> func subsc

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 8:06 AM, Austin Zheng wrote: > > According to that code (which is in Decl.cpp), AnyObject (and Any) conforms > to itself; no non-@objc protocol is allowed to conform to itself. An @objc > protocol may or may not conform to itself, depending on some other conditions. Like

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 8, 2016, at 3:18 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > > Exactly. But much simpler cases will also either have to trap at > runtime or be prohibited outright: > > func subscript_(c: C, i: C.Index) -> C.Collection.Element { >return c[i] > } > > typealias IntCollecti

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

According to that code (which is in Decl.cpp), AnyObject (and Any) conforms to itself; no non-@objc protocol is allowed to conform to itself. An @objc protocol may or may not conform to itself, depending on some other conditions. > On Jun 8, 2016, at 9:19 PM, L. Mihalkovic > wrote: > > > >

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 9, 2016, at 12:49 AM, Austin Zheng via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > >> On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: >> >> on Wed Jun 08 2016, Austin Zheng wrote: >> >> > FWIW my opinion is that existentials either shouldn't be allowed to stand >> > in for generic type

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 8, 2016, at 9:43 PM, Austin Zheng via swift-evolution > wrote: > > It's not possible, even with Swift's current implementation of existentials. > A protocol type P isn't considered to conform to itself, thus the following > is rejected: The rules are not that simple, I seem to reca

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: > > on Wed Jun 08 2016, Austin Zheng wrote: > > > FWIW my opinion is that existentials either shouldn't be allowed to stand > > in for generic type parameters, or Dave's option #1 if they are. > > Don't you mean #2? Otherwise I'm confused. #

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

(inline) On Wed, Jun 8, 2016 at 3:18 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: > > on Wed Jun 08 2016, Austin Zheng wrote: > > > We might be talking past each other. I think Matthew is talking about > using > > an existential outside the context of generic functions. For example, > > something like this should

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Wed Jun 08 2016, Austin Zheng wrote: > FWIW my opinion is that existentials either shouldn't be allowed to stand > in for generic type parameters, or Dave's option #1 if they are. Don't you mean #2? Otherwise I'm confused. #1 is the one that prohibits more usages. > The implied promise of

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Wed Jun 08 2016, Austin Zheng wrote: > We might be talking past each other. I think Matthew is talking about using > an existential outside the context of generic functions. For example, > something like this should be trap-proof (as long as 'x' is immutable, > which it is in this example):

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 8, 2016, at 4:47 PM, Austin Zheng wrote: > > FWIW my opinion is that existentials either shouldn't be allowed to stand in > for generic type parameters, or Dave's option #1 if they are. > > The implied promise of a generic type parameter T right now is that T always > stands for the

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 8, 2016, at 1:33 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: > > > on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: > >>> On Jun 7, 2016, at 9:15 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: >>> >>> >>> on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson >> > wrote: >>> >> > On Jun 7, 2016, at 4:13 P

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Wed Jun 08 2016, Jordan Rose wrote: >> On Jun 8, 2016, at 13:16, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution >> wrote: >> >> >> on Wed Jun 08 2016, Thorsten Seitz > > wrote: >> > >>> Ah, thanks, I forgot! I still consider this a bug, though (will have >>> to read

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

FWIW my opinion is that existentials either shouldn't be allowed to stand in for generic type parameters, or Dave's option #1 if they are. The implied promise of a generic type parameter T right now is that T always stands for the same concrete type (modulo things like passing in a subclass where

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

We might be talking past each other. I think Matthew is talking about using an existential outside the context of generic functions. For example, something like this should be trap-proof (as long as 'x' is immutable, which it is in this example): func copySequenceIntoArray(x: Any) -> [Int] { var b

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Sent from my iPad > On Jun 8, 2016, at 3:16 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > > >> on Wed Jun 08 2016, Thorsten Seitz wrote: >> >> Ah, thanks, I forgot! I still consider this a bug, though (will have >> to read up again what the reasons are for that behavior). > > Yes, but

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 8, 2016, at 13:16, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > on Wed Jun 08 2016, Thorsten Seitz > wrote: > >> Ah, thanks, I forgot! I still consider this a bug, though (will have >> to read up again what the reasons are for that behavior). >

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Wed Jun 08 2016, Thorsten Seitz wrote: > Ah, thanks, I forgot! I still consider this a bug, though (will have > to read up again what the reasons are for that behavior). Yes, but in the case of the issue we're discussing, the choices are: 1. Omit from the existential's API any protocol req

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

Ah, thanks, I forgot! I still consider this a bug, though (will have to read up again what the reasons are for that behavior). -Thorsten > Am 08.06.2016 um 21:43 schrieb Austin Zheng : > > It's not possible, even with Swift's current implementation of existentials. > A protocol type P isn't

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

It's not possible, even with Swift's current implementation of existentials. A protocol type P isn't considered to conform to itself, thus the following is rejected: let a : MyProtocol = // ... func myFunc(x: T) { // } myFunc(a) // "Cannot invoke 'myFunc' with an argument list of type MyPro

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> Am 08.06.2016 um 20:33 schrieb Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > : > > > on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: > >>> On Jun 7, 2016, at 9:15 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: >>> >>> >>> on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson >> > wrote: >>> >> > On Ju

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: >> On Jun 7, 2016, at 9:15 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: >> >> >> on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson > > wrote: >> > On Jun 7, 2016, at 4:13 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution wrote: on

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 7, 2016, at 9:27 PM, Matthew Johnson wrote: > >> >> On Jun 7, 2016, at 9:15 PM, Dave Abrahams > > wrote: >> >> >> on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson > > wrote: >> On Jun 7, 2016, at 4:13 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 7, 2016, at 9:15 PM, Dave Abrahams wrote: > > > on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson > wrote: > >>> On Jun 7, 2016, at 4:13 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: >>> >> > ,

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: >> On Jun 7, 2016, at 4:13 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution >> wrote: >> >> >> on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: >> > , but haven't realized that if you step around the type relationships encoded in Self requirements a

Re: [swift-evolution] [swift-evolution-announce] [Review] SE-0089: Replace protocol syntax with Any

> On Jun 7, 2016, at 4:13 PM, Dave Abrahams via swift-evolution > wrote: > > > on Tue Jun 07 2016, Matthew Johnson wrote: > >>> , but haven't realized >>> that if you step around the type relationships encoded in Self >>> requirements and associated types you end up with types that appear to

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