On 11/14/2012 11:28 AM, Andrew Thule wrote:
Jerry, with respect to Copyright law 'derivative' work is permitted as
fair use. This has been the problem with this whole thread, people
are willing to recognize the module as dervative work but refuse to
believe the law permits derivative work as '
Jerry, with respect to Copyright law 'derivative' work is permitted as fair
use. This has been the problem with this whole thread, people are willing
to recognize the module as dervative work but refuse to believe the law
permits derivative work as 'legal'. (I've posted the links to both US and
C
Andrew,
When you are the only one who thinks your position on copyright is
correct, and *everyone* else is telling you "No, you're fundamentally
misunderstanding the case law involved," I submit that it might be wise
to stop and consider the possibility that you may be wrong in your
understan
On Tue, Nov 13, 2012 at 12:40 PM, Andrew Thule wrote:
> With the possible exception of calling people trolls, I agree, this is how
> we are to conduct ourselves in public. Even Christian folks, sometimes
> disagree. Reasoning things out, using civility, logic, evidence, tolerance
> for difference
On 11/13/2012 11:40 AM, Andrew Thule wrote:
"A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations,
or other modifications, which, as a whole, represent an original work
of authorship, is a “derivative work” which is clearly the case here.
This module contains annotations, elabora
Nic, this request was for assistance, nothing more.
There were 24 versions of the book of Genesis found at DSS. For
Deuteronomy there were 33 copies and Qumran produced 39 copies of Psalms
most of these copies translated by different scholars. No one publishes
English versions of the text and ob
On 13/11/12 18:40, Andrew Thule wrote:
Furthermore, we've managed to sort out that there is
a difference between protections on cultural works (often produced for
commercial advantage) and scholarly work, produced to expand knowledge.
Andrew, I find this all rather disturbing.
1) No one of us
Andrew,
I'm not concerned with all the details that everyone has put forward. (I'm
kinda strange like that.)
However, if you're not prepared to put your money where your mouth is and
contact the publishers and go above and beyond in order to make sure you/we are
above reproach and there is no
With the possible exception of calling people trolls, I agree, this is how
we are to conduct ourselves in public. Even Christian folks, sometimes
disagree. Reasoning things out, using civility, logic, evidence, tolerance
for difference of opinion, are all hallmarks of responsible people working
thr
This is a good summary of how we conduct ourselves in general and how we
want to conduct ourselves.
Thanks Nic.
Peter
On 11/11/12 23:13, niccarter wrote:
Disclaimer: I am not an expert in US law to any degree. I just want to pick up
on one thing Greg mentioned:
Those works ARE subject to
Disclaimer: I am not an expert in US law to any degree. I just want to pick up
on one thing Greg mentioned:
> Those works ARE subject to Copyright
> unless their authors or publishers have explicitly released them from
> Copyright.
The way to make sure that everything is above board and that we
n: SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum
> Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] DSS (Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls based upon DJD
> translations)
> Andrew, I don't wish to sound mean but I don't know how to soften this.
> I can only hope that some day you appreciate the guidanc
Andrew, I don't wish to sound mean but I don't know how to soften this.
I can only hope that some day you appreciate the guidance people here,
are giving you.
On 11/9/2012 9:37 PM, Andrew Thule wrote:
Jerry, what the Law actually says trumps what the copyright office says.
What you are imply
On 11/09/2012 08:32 PM, Andrew Thule wrote:
Chris, thank you for taking time to lay out your position. (Comments
inline)
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Chris Little mailto:chris...@crosswire.org>> wrote:
The problem here is that you are employing CrossWire's mailing list
to publicize
Hi Andrew,
You keep claiming that you are providing a derivative work.
But your concept of derivative work is flawed as well. Look at the definition
of
"derivative work" according to US law
(http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/101):
"A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or mor
Andrew,
You have fundamentally misunderstood what type of exemption is
applied. Works produced by academic institutions are still eligible
for Copyright and do not fall into the Public Domain by default.
However, an academic may utilize a Copyrighted work in certain Fair
Use scenarios which are ou
Peter
Thanks, but the purpose of sharing this module was to improve it, not to
contribute to Crosswire.
With respect to abiding by your values - I believe I do. I live to honour
Christ in all that I do. I abide by the law, and I seek His Glory. If
these are the values that you are referencing,
Jerry, what the Law actually says trumps what the copyright office says.
I quoted the law itself which outlines restrictions on Copyright for fair
use. I also quoted the Law which justifies 'derivative works' even where
Copyright applies.
If copyright doesn't apply to certain types of work - you
Chris, thank you for taking time to lay out your position. (Comments
inline)
On Thu, Nov 8, 2012 at 2:16 PM, Chris Little wrote:
>
> The problem here is that you are employing CrossWire's mailing list to
> publicize the dissemination of a copyright-violating work. You are breaking
> the law and
boration Forum
> Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] DSS (Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls based upon DJD
> translations)
> Andrew,
>
> I'm not really wanting to get into the DSS discussion regarding legal
> matters as I'm not a lawyer. However, there are some things I'd like to note
On 11/8/2012 9:26 AM, Andrew wrote:
The US definition of 'Fair Use':
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107
§ 107 . Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106a, the fair use
of a copyrighted work, including such use by ...
On 11/08/2012 10:20 AM, Andrew Thule wrote:
*DM*, I suspect you've hit upon the heart of the difference of opinion.
I'm not asking Crosswire to host any module. I suspect that assumption
is at the heart of passion in the debate. I have both a private and a
public repository and am capable of ho
*DM*, I suspect you've hit upon the heart of the difference of opinion.
I'm not asking Crosswire to host any module. I suspect that assumption is
at the heart of passion in the debate. I have both a private and a public
repository and am capable of hosting the module myself. Rather, I offered
it
Greg,
Andrew's original request was for QA help. That's very reasonable. I have asked
for such in the past and will do so in the future. Sometimes, it has been for
modules that cannot be made public or are encrypted. This is something that we
can handle.
We got sidetracked by the full public av
Andrew,
Clearly arguing with you isn't going to show you that you are wrong.
Regardless why you are producing the modules - which you have the
personal right to do, provided you possess legitimate original copies,
by distributing them freely on the Internet you are no longer using
them for either
Andrew,
I'm not really wanting to get into the DSS discussion regarding legal matters
as I'm not a lawyer. However, there are some things I'd like to note:
At CrossWire we have a notion of what we are willing to include in our module
repository. There are several factors that play into this. I'
Brian that's not true. The law does impose clear guidelines on when a work
is derivative, what constitutes 'copyright material' and exceptions because
of research, criticism, comment, etc.
I've posted those constraints above.
Copyright is there to protect someone who invests effort in creative e
e obtained, or a link
> to the publisher's general terms or you stop distributing and talking about
> ripping off these translations.
>
> Sent from my HTC
>
>
> - Reply message -
> From: "Andrew Thule"
> To: "SWORD Developers' Collaboration Forum
This argument would claim that we could reproduce *any* copyrighted work
because someone *might* have a fair use claim to it. That's just silly.
Your argument has nothing to do with the academic *source* of the
material, just the intended use. But you have no idea how some random
person downloa
Matěj I have no intention.. here's why:
The US definition of 'Fair Use':
http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#107
§ 107 . Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use
Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106a, the fair use of a
copyrighted work, including such use by reprodu
aboration Forum"
Subject: [sword-devel] DSS (Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls based upon DJD
translations)
Date: Thu, Nov 8, 2012 03:56
Peter, you are entitled to your opinion.
Clearly I have no commercial interest in offering this module to the list for
QA. Clearly the translators who have offered
On 11/07/2012 02:21 PM, Andrew Thule wrote:
Forgive me. I forgot to address your question about what constitutes
'academic'.
Dead Sea Scroll translations to date, have been translated by academics,
holding academic positions in academic institutions. The translations
have been (and are being) d
On Wed, 2012-11-07 at 22:56 -0500, Andrew Thule wrote:
> Clearly I have no commercial interest in offering this module to the list
> for QA. Clearly the translators who have offered their work to DJD did so
> in an academic / research framework (making them available to the broader
> audience), an
lly so.
>
> I am not going to bore you or the list with definitions.
>
> Peter
>
> Original-Nachricht
> > Datum: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 17:21:13 -0500
> > Von: Andrew Thule
> > An: "SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum"
> > Betre
Greg said: "Fair Use" does not mean plagiarizing.
TRUE, but nobody's plagiarized - and I hope you're not accusing me of
this. Such an unfounded accusation would raise the temperature in this
otherwise civil discussion. I understand the legal concept of '*
transformativeness*'. Using someone el
012 17:21:13 -0500
> Von: Andrew Thule
> An: "SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum"
> Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] DSS (Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls based upon DJD
> translations)
> Forgive me. I forgot to address your question about what constitutes
&
"Fair Use" does not mean plagiarizing. Bibles are able to be quoted from,
even extensively, to constitute "Fair Use" but you can't copy a Bible out
of print or another electronic form, even if you do it by hand, and claim
to be using it under "Fair Use" because it's a translation of an ancient
work
Original-Nachricht
> Datum: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 16:35:30 -0500
> Von: Andrew Thule
> An: "SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum"
> Betreff: Re: [sword-devel] DSS (Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls based upon DJD
> translations)
> Peter, I ass
Forgive me. I forgot to address your question about what constitutes
'academic'.
Dead Sea Scroll translations to date, have been translated by academics,
holding academic positions in academic institutions. The translations have
been (and are being) done for academic purposes, published in academ
Peter, I assume you understand the difference between intellectual property
and copyright. I also assume you understand the 'derivative work'
principles of 'fair use' and 'transformativeness'.
Within science and academia, authors may cite other authors work without
permission as long as they prov
On 07/11/12 15:52, Andrew Thule wrote:
It is a derivative work from academic translations, but for now treat as
copyrighted, until I resolve the license issue. With the exception of
Elisha Qimron's translations (by the Israeli Supreme Court no less), all
other DSS translations are treated as aca
mber 7, 2012, Peter von Kaehne wrote:
> What is the copyright situation of this module?
>
> Peter
> Original-Nachricht
> > Datum: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 01:22:31 -0500
> > Von: Andrew Thule >
> > An: "SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum&q
What is the copyright situation of this module?
Peter
Original-Nachricht
> Datum: Wed, 7 Nov 2012 01:22:31 -0500
> Von: Andrew Thule
> An: "SWORD Developers\' Collaboration Forum"
> Betreff: [sword-devel] DSS (Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls based upon
If anyone's interested in comparing current English versions to what's been
found at Qumran (Dead Sea Scrolls) I've got an early, mostly working bible
based upon English translations of the Biblical Dead Sea Scrolls from the
DJD series (
http://www.oup.com/us/catalog/general/series/Discoveriesinthe
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