t-and-f: WJ start lists

IAAF has now posted official start lists on their site. Those interested can check out lists (and results over the next week) at http://www.iaaf.org/wjc00/results/ Regards - GT - http://homepages.go.com/~oztrack/

t-and-f: Compared Rankings

Now that the season is complete and the IAAF rankings are in for the season. How much of a difference will their top 10 list be from TFN? The IAAF formula seems to be weird during the season but it appears to work it's way out after the season is complete. I was just wondering what some of the

RE: BEST 100M EVER/Re: t-and-f: Mo Greene

Not to mention the fact that the tracks are harder and faster, the training more sophisticated, the money is better and the chemists are better now. Also, many of the athletes who could be Greenes' rivals have chosen to participate in football, basketball or baseball in which the scholarships

RE: BEST 100M EVER/Re: t-and-f: Mo Greene

Not to mention the fact that the tracks are harder and faster, the training more sophisticated, the money is better and the chemists are better now. Also, many of the athletes who could be Greenes' rivals have chosen to participate in football, basketball or baseball in which the scholarships

RE: t-and-f: AWOL (was Angry.....yada yada yada...)

If what's good enough for the goose isn't good enough for the gander, it's a sure sign of P.C. run amuck. Now if people say anybody chasing ANYBODY with a chainsaw is totally unacceptable, then their argument has a sound basis, it's not just P.C. garbage, and I will support them 100%.

RE: t-and-f: Re: Angry White Lesbians - The Final Chapter (chuh-che-che-che-che...hah-huh-ha-ha-ha)

Since I started this thread, I'm going to tie it up once and for all. And, yes, there is still some track and field in this post: So how should the AWLs feel about Steve Irwin's (Crocodile hunter) Federal Express commercial which depicts a snakebite from the "most deadliest snike in the woyld".

t-and-f: Lewis-Francis goes for gold

Electronic Telegraph Tuesday 17 October 2000 Tom Knight REMEMBER Mark Lewis-Francis, the young British sprinter who made such a sensational breakthrough during the summer, only to opt out of selection for the Olympics? His time of 10.10sec for 100 metres at the British Grand Prix in August

Re: [Re: t-and-f: D-II Rankings]

"Jack Moran" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Brian, there's a mistake of some sort in the men's rankings. Southern Ind was #12 last week, and is both 12 20 this week. -- From: Brian Kavanaugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Track and Field Listserv [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: t-and-f: D-II

Re: t-and-f: Mo Greene

Bob Hayes Valery Borzov These two were dominate (I think...vets help me here:) but competed in another era. They were on top before the huge jumps in technology for tracks, equipment and training. I think that the list is incompete if all we list are athlete since 1980. But then it becomes

Re: t-and-f: Mo Greene

At 01:08 AM 10/17/00 EDT, you wrote: Mitchell is hard to include as he only had two Bronzes. Does he rank ahead of Burrell who had two Wr's and indoor WR and WC Silver? Mitchell did make Oly finals in 88., 92, and 96 (i think). Burrell would get the edge because he always did it clean Peter

t-and-f: XC Distance Doublers

In a message dated 10/16/00 8:36:35 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How bout this for an explanation as to why doubles in the 5 and 10 are rare nowadays. Here's a flip side of that question: 4/8 and 4/12 doubles at World Cross seem far more common, even though the races are back to back. Sonia

Re: t-and-f: top 100m people

I would have to agree with Kebba on this one, Carl was the man and had plenty of competiton even here in the US form the likes of Marsh, Burrell, Mitchell etc. And have we forgotten that Carl won the deepest 100 final ever CL - 9.86, LB - 9.88, DM - 9.91 and I believe that 7th place was 9.99

RE: t-and-f: XC Distance Doublers

Far more common, what? The 4k Junior Varsity race has been run all of three times? malmo 4/8 and 4/12 doubles at World Cross seem far more common, even though the races are back to back. Sonia O even pulled off a double gold a few years ago. And you'd think running up and down hills and

Re: t-and-f: AWOL (was Angry.....yada yada yada...)

Gee, I wonder how many men are killed every year in this country by women, versus how many women by men? Your scenario wouldn't reflect reality at all... Bruce Goodchild As for political correctness, you can be assured that there wouldn't be any ruckus at all if the commercial had shown

t-and-f: Chainsaws

Message text written by "malmo" Ever play the game CLUE? (God forbid you'd ever let your child play that game with the morbid theme of murder and all!) There's a reason why none of the weapons is a chainsaw. A chainsaw makes a very poor murder weapon. It's heavy, it smokes, it's very loud, it's

t-and-f: SUB 4 Father/Son

...what about the Lunn's (John and Jason)...and watch out for the Bairs. Sam and his now soph son who ran 1:56 last year as a frosh at the Pennsylvania State meet...the Clarkes of Ausralia? the Powers (Arkansas kid and his dad?) - Original Message - From: Dale Winling [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: t-and-f: Mo Greene

Bob Hayes Valery Borzov These two were dominate (I think...vets help me here:) but competed in another era. Was Borzov really that dominant? Mo is probably just as much so although his career is shorter and incomplete. Hayes belongs on any list of greatest sprinters. Steve S.

RE: t-and-f: Re: Angry White Lesbians - The Final Chapter (chuh-che-che-che-che...hah-huh-ha-ha-ha)

For murder and sin-ridden literature, don't forget the Bible. It's full of that kind of stuff. However, in the Bible the good triumphs over the evil in the end - just like in the Nike ad. And the most horrifying picture shown recently on TV during prime time is that footage of that

Re: t-and-f: XC Distance Doublers

In a message dated 10/17/00 9:55:28 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The 4k Junior Varsity race has been run all of three times? True, but I'd wager there were more doubles in that time than 5/10's in the past 3 OG/WCs. Admittedly just a hunch, though. Jim Gerweck Running Times

t-and-f: Olympic trivia question

How about a brief time out from the Olympic doping discussion for a quick trivia question: Who is Mebrahtom Keflezighi? Who is Abdi Abdirahman? Here's a hint: PR = 27:54.81 I have never heard either of these remarkable athletes mentioned on this forum. Anybody know anything about their

Re: t-and-f: Mo Greene

Darrell wrote: Such an arbitrary discussion. I think we can pretty much agree that carl is the greatest to date. Time will be the only definition for Mo. As for Ben, he is no where near the top 5, and it has nothing to do with his drug bust. He was good sprinter, but that is all. I do

t-and-f: Finally

Finally a little conversation on the list .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]

No Subject

For college and high school meet results try http://www.trackmeets.com For road race results try http://www.run-time.com

RE: t-and-f: RE: Olympic Marathons

Remember too that there is an aerobic component in the sprints, so sprinters also benefit from EPO...oops, better leave it at that! Don't want to cause any more heart problems in the sprint ranks! Tony Craddock At 10:51 AM 10/17/00 -0400, Mcewen, Brian T wrote: EPO was in use at the 1988

RE: t-and-f: RE: Olympic Marathons

You totaly misunderstand what I said. I mean that there are greater numbers of people competeing from Africa, making the talent pool to pull from much larger, hence much greater numbers of athletes capable of winning/medaling on an international scale. In that respect, today is much more

RE: t-and-f: No of total Performances

It was a typo, it should have been Steve Ovett 35 occurrences place 167 Peter Larsson -Original Message- From: Prof. Uri Goldbourt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: den 16 oktober 2000 15:45 To: Peter Larsson; TrackField mailing List; Conway Subject: Re: t-and-f: No of total

RE: t-and-f: RE: Olympic Marathons

Here it is, in the shortest/most succinct way I can write it, without implicating any individuals for drug use: 1) I think we all agree that a 10,000m heat, followed by 2 rest days, and the 10,000m final at the Olympic Games is stressful (i.e. you are tired/sore after you complete it). Most of

t-and-f: Drugs and the sprints

I am curious as to whether or not any studies have been done that would give some indication as to the advantages gained by sprinters who use "drugs" (steroids, EPO, whatever) .. I have been a ware over the years of many athletes (track and otherwise) that have used drugs and for most there was

Fwd: Re: t-and-f: Mo Greene

Someone in another post talked about Mo peaking .. I'm not sure how that came about .. Mo just runs fast all the time .. His one great asset is his ability to always run fast in big meets (averaging 9.84 in his 3 championship wins) .. But he runs just as fast elsewhere .. Whereas Most of the

Re: t-and-f: Finally

What has happened to Garry Hill? Is he mad at the list again? JL Conway wrote: Finally a little conversation on the list .. Conway Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED]

RE: t-and-f: Drugs and the sprints

Whoa ... "not a great improvement"? Witness the WR of Ben Johnson ... a time .20 ahead of almost everyone else in history who ran the 100m at sea-level with fair wind. You guys know that sub-10.00 at sea level used to be rare. How can you characterize a .20 advantage as "not great"? And, yes,

Re: t-and-f: Chainsaws

Perhaps you'd like to still the chatter, give us some REAL content, and jump in and tell us when the pending US drug positives are going to be announced by USATF? And also name the five US positives in track and field at Seoul that the IOC's de Merode announced at Sydney who, he said, accounted

Fw: t-and-f: SUB 4 Father/Son

OF course!!! What a blatant oversight! Was Martin Kip's actual son by blood or one of the dozens of children that he had adopted? Mike - Original Message - From: Don Franken [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mike fanelli [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, October 17, 2000 9:36 AM Subject: Re:

Re: t-and-f: Who wants to be a millionaire?

In a message dated 10/17/00 9:17:30 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: One of those scheduled to appear is Maurice Greene. So let's say he goes half of $1 million. Guess he'd be taking a cut in pay. My bet is Mo craps out within the first 3 questions, leaving him with what, about $100? Jim

Re: t-and-f: RE: Olympic Marathons

In a message dated 10/17/00 1:26:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In '72, '76, and '80 there were three double golds, and several other notable double medallists, and high-placing doublers (Viren, Yifter, Puttemans, Shorter, kedir, Maaninka, Foster). Jeez, everybody was saying in 72

Re: t-and-f: Drugs and the sprints

- Original Message - Whoa ... "not a great improvement"? Witness the WR of Ben Johnson ... a time .20 ahead of almost everyone else in history who ran the 100m at sea-level with fair wind. You guys know that sub-10.00 at sea level used to be rare. How can you characterize a .20

Re: t-and-f: Who wants to be a millionaire?

They'll surely dumb-down the questions ala Celebrity Jeopardy. It'll be interesting to see if they choose Olympians with large incomes or Olympians living on $12K a year who could really use the entire cash prize rather than sending half to a multi-million dollar charity organization.

RE: t-and-f: RE: Olympic Marathons

Brian says: Here it is, in the shortest/most succinct way I can write it, without implicating any individuals for drug use: Your reasoning makes some sense, but I don't see where you need to have EPO to make it work. Take EPO out of the equation and just have increasing event specialization

Re: t-and-f: Drugs and the sprints

You omitted one fact. Christie tested positive for ephedrine at Seoul, but they let him keep his medal anyway. And...Ben was NOT busted for 'roids at Seoul. He was convicted because one man, the late Dr. Manfred Donike, subjectively felt that Ben had an aberrant endocrine profile - a

RE: t-and-f: RE: Olympic Marathons

Many drugs were available to these competitors during this period ... just not EPO. Read the original message and you will see that I never said the spectacular doubles (and triples) were accomplished without perf. drugs ... I just said that the drug with the greatest enhancing effect (EPO)

RE: t-and-f: Who wants to be a millionaire?

Mo will aggressively win the "fastest-finger" question ... only to embarrass himself with an inappropriate "victory" celebration for winning $1000. Normally, you would be correct, he would leave with only $100. But, they "dumb" the questions down for special episodes ... they did for the

Re: t-and-f: Drugs and the sprints

At 10:00 PM 10/17/00 +0200, you wrote: - Original Message - Whoa ... "not a great improvement"? Witness the WR of Ben Johnson ... a time .20 ahead of almost everyone else in history who ran the 100m at sea-level with fair wind. You guys know that sub-10.00 at sea level used to be

Re: t-and-f: RE: Olympic Marathons

1) I think we all agree that a 10,000m heat, followed by 2 rest days, and the 10,000m final at the Olympic Games is stressful (i.e. you are tired/sore after you complete it). Most of us would agree that running any all-out track 10k is hard on the body. Running two of them is even harder.

t-and-f: The distaff side

Since we're ranking sprinters and a lot of listers place mucho importance on winning gold medals at OG and WC where does Merlene Ottey fit into the woman's side of the greatest ever debate? She certainly should be considered but has always ended up with a "lessor" medal. Steve S.

Re: t-and-f: RE: Olympic Marathons

Or it could be that winning one gold is worth more than winning one gold but getting sixth in another race - this reduction in the number of doubles also coincided with the advent of "above the table" money. I think this is a larger factor than I have seen considered in this discussion. I

t-and-f: Drugs and sprinting

Re the coment on the advantage of drugs in sprinting. Read what Charlie Francis (Johnson's coach) had to say about what kind of doping it takes in order for you not to be "setting up your blocks 1 meter behind the rest of the field". 1 m is worth 0.09 seconds for a top level male sprinter

t-and-f: B.A.A. and adidas present the Mayor's Cup at Franklin Park on Sun day, October 22

Entry is still open; see www.usatfne.org under cross country for entry info. B.A.A. and adidas present the Mayor's Cup Cross Country and Youth Races Sunday, October 22, 2000 Franklin Park, Boston BOSTON, Mass. (October 17, 2000) - The trail to crown the country's top running club ends at

t-and-f: gp vs. Olympics

In a message dated 10/7/00 7:57:56 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: How about not having a GP series during Olmpic years? How do you think that would affect the quality of the field and importance of the Olympics? Or, since the whole concept of amateurism is pretty moot anyway, pay the

t-and-f: Re: your mail

When Stanford runs at full strength with Grant Robison (#1 in front of Murley at ND) and Don Sage (#3 at ND) plus guys like Jennings they are going to put up one of the lowest scores ever. It will be a fight between CU and the hogs. Later, Rolin GO PILOTS On Tue, 17 Oct 2000, mitcca19

t-and-f: World Juniors, Day 1

A pretty good opening day .. all results, including metric conversions and lots of news and notes are now at our web site .. www.nationalscholastic.org Jim Spier

t-and-f: World Juniors, day 1

A pretty good opening day, including a 10.13 by Britain's Lewis-Francis with neg wind and Kenya's 16 year old Robert Chipchumba running 13:54.8 for his second 5k in winning the 10k. All day 1 results, including metric conversions, news, notes and photos are at our web site:

Re: t-and-f: Drugs and the sprints

Brian wrote: Whoa ... "not a great improvement"? Witness the WR of Ben Johnson ... a time .20 ahead of almost everyone else in history who ran the 100m at sea-level with fair wind. You guys know that sub-10.00 at sea level used to be rare. How can you characterize a .20 advantage as "not

Re: t-and-f: Drugs and the sprints

Elliot wrote: Hold on a sec. here. Ben Johnson was the only top athlete on dope in 1988? Ben was running against a clean crowd ? Let's see where this goes ... And, yes, I attribute Ben Johnson's ability to run that fast to DRUGS. Without them, he is a 10.15 guy at the very best.

t-and-f: World Junior Championships, day 1

Hello all, this contribution may be short, since I have only the time left in the opening ceremony (nice one, BTW, with just enough speed to keep people interested). A small first lesson of the championship for me personally: do not get sick the day before (better now, thanks). To start, I want

Re:t-and-f: Nike Ad

From: "Ed Dana Parrot" [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have a very pragmatic response, in which I want to support Justin Clouder. This ad was essentially the most shocking scene out of the R-rated teen horror flicks. I can respect those who feel the ad was inappropriate, but let's not overdo it.

RE: t-and-f: Mo Greene

From: Justin Clouder [EMAIL PROTECTED] How do you figure that Johnson was only a good sprinter, not a great one? Given his times and dominance, this position is only supportable if you argue that he was a good sprinter who became great solely because of drugs. Thus, by my reckoning, either

RE: t-and-f: RE: Olympic Marathons

I understand what is being said about the increased damage to muscles and tendons and what not, but wouldn't long term (say 1 year) use of a drug such as EPO which improves the "engine" as we call it, also, indirectly improve muscle strength and endurance over time with training. I

RE: t-and-f: Olympic Marathons Doubles

--- "Mcewen, Brian T" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Are there several top men attempting the 4k/12k double each March? I looked over the results, and watched the TV presentation of last years race, I don't remember any men doubling successfully. Goucher? Or do you mean just the world champs?

t-and-f: 5000/10000m double

Geb only did the double once (in 1993, NOT 1995, and he got SILVER in the 5. Get your facts straight) because it's too damn hard. He had to run his ass off to beat Tanui in the 10,000 (after Chelimo pushed the pace) and then had to come back in the most amazing 5000 of all time. Kirui threw

Re: t-and-f: No of total Performances

Conway wrote: First I'd like to say excellent work by Peter .. As always .. His site is extremely informative .. Amen to that! Regards, Roger