Re: [Tagging] Points instead of areas

On 08/08/18 12:52, Bill Ricker wrote: On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 6:41 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick mailto:graemefi...@gmail.com>> wrote: On 7 August 2018 at 21:56, Daniel Koć mailto:daniel@ko%C4%87.pl>> wrote: For example nobody would say that a city is a point I'm not disagre

Re: [Tagging] Points instead of areas

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 6:41 PM, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: > > > > On 7 August 2018 at 21:56, Daniel Koć wrote: > >> >> For example nobody would say that a city is a point > > > I'm not disagreeing with you, but people do refer to them, & somehow even > measure them, as points! > > I'm sure that

Re: [Tagging] undersea tourist route

Every once in a while, there's a suggestion made of establishing a offshore tourist route via a submersible vessel of some sort! How would that go - ferry route? Thanks Graeme On 8 August 2018 at 10:12, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 08/08/18 09:01, marc marc wrote: > >> Le 08. 08.

Re: [Tagging] Missing access value (access=license / authorization?)

Yep, Kevin's proposal solves a lot of problems. Let's try to push it along & get it approved. Thanks Graeme ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

Re: [Tagging] Flood mark or high water mark

On 8 August 2018 at 05:00, Robert Szczepanek wrote: > > > Before making any changes in wiki I would like to find final agreement on > that topic. > "Flood level" (highest water table) is usually only one of several > informations we can find on "flood mark". Others can be date of flood, > inscript

Re: [Tagging] Part/whole confusion with Wikidata tag, and the need for enveloping parts into a whole

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 9:22 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > Nelson, there are several places I have seen in our wiki, e.g. [1], which > discourage duplication of information if it can be avoided. name is a > special case - it helps mappers to quickly identify what the object > represents. If we duplic

Re: [Tagging] Part/whole confusion with Wikidata tag, and the need for enveloping parts into a whole

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018 at 1:53 AM Nelson A. de Oliveira wrote: > On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 7:35 PM, Yuri Astrakhan > wrote: > > Why would you want railroad stations tagged differently > > and duplicate the same wikidata tag on every part of it? > > Having the same "wikidata" on every part representing

Re: [Tagging] undersea tourist route

On 08/08/18 09:01, marc marc wrote: Le 08. 08. 18 à 00:26, Warin a écrit : A scuba or snorkel route - some concrete drums with a chain between then and signs for people to follow. Like an under sea path. highway=path + location=underwater ? :) Humm highway=path layer=-1 surface=water ___

Re: [Tagging] Missing access value (access=license / authorization?)

> use the tag yourself and encourage other mappers to do the same. I agree. And I have already used such tagging for a few lakes in Alaska that require exactly the sort of permit Kevin is talking about. The permit to fish those lakes is more or less a formality; anybody can get one and they are f

Re: [Tagging] undersea tourist route

Hi!I would use the scheme for scuba_diving:https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport=scuba_diving sport=scuba_diving scuba_diving:type:intro=yes(or make up a new :type:path=yes) But maybe the scuba_divers doesn't approve of this snorkeling_path, who knows. Anyway, we got some in Sweden too (c

Re: [Tagging] Missing access value (access=license / authorization?)

Le 08. 08. 18 à 00:59, Dave Swarthout a écrit : > > use the tag yourself and encourage other mappers to do the same. and/or understand the criticisms and try to improve the proposal. because when I read in a message that everyone approved... either a lot of messages are lost, or it's vapoware...

Re: [Tagging] undersea tourist route

Le 08. 08. 18 à 00:26, Warin a écrit : > A scuba or snorkel route - some concrete drums with a chain between then > and signs for people to follow. Like an under sea path. highway=path + location=underwater ? :) ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstre

Re: [Tagging] Part/whole confusion with Wikidata tag, and the need for enveloping parts into a whole

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 7:35 PM, Yuri Astrakhan wrote: > Why would you want railroad stations tagged differently > and duplicate the same wikidata tag on every part of it? Having the same "wikidata" on every part representing an object seems to be as correct as having "name" on every part of a hig

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

Le 07. 08. 18 à 15:53, Colin Smale a écrit : > On 2018-08-07 15:43, marc marc wrote: > >> I think there's too much redundancy in using is_in:continent. >> it is useless, for example, to say that a street + the municipality >> + the region + the country is all in the same continent. >> it is enough

Re: [Tagging] Points instead of areas

On 7 August 2018 at 21:56, Daniel Koć wrote: > > For example nobody would say that a city is a point I'm not disagreeing with you, but people do refer to them, & somehow even measure them, as points! I'm sure that you have the same situation in your country but an e.g. is my State capital, Bri

Re: [Tagging] Part/whole confusion with Wikidata tag, and the need for enveloping parts into a whole

Martin, the goal is not to make OSM fit to Wikidata needs (I'm not even sure what those needs are). The goal is to make it easier to consume OSM data. Pretty much every single OSM data consumer I spoke with complained of how difficult it is to use OSM data - let's try to help them. For this speci

Re: [Tagging] undersea tourist route

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 11:26 PM, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: How would you tag such a thing? layer=-1? -- Paul ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] undersea tourist route

Hi, Here is one for puzzling over. A scuba or snorkel route - some concrete drums with a chain between then and signs for people to follow. Like an under sea path. http://watertourist.com/listing/gordons-bay-underwater-nature-trail/ How would you tag such a thing? Presently: Way: Gordons

Re: [Tagging] Part/whole confusion with Wikidata tag, and the need for enveloping parts into a whole

Em 2018-08-07 05:00, Christoph Hormann escreveu: On Monday 06 August 2018, peterkrauss wrote: Seems a commom quality problem of part/whole confusion in the Wikidata attribution or OSM's POI reference... And where there are a need for "enveloping parts into a whole". [...] The fact that there

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Evacuation Route

On 08/08/18 01:35, Eric H. Christensen wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 -‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On August 7, 2018 11:27 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: On 6. Aug 2018, at 06:30, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: And it might be better to place it directly in the

Re: [Tagging] Part/whole confusion with Wikidata tag, and the need for enveloping parts into a whole

sent from a phone > On 7. Aug 2018, at 18:36, peterkrauss wrote: > > PS: "type=site" was classified with status "abandoned", at > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Site yes, someone set the proposal to abandoned some months ago, but the site relation is one of the most

Re: [Tagging] Part/whole confusion with Wikidata tag, and the need for enveloping parts into a whole

sent from a phone > On 7. Aug 2018, at 18:36, peterkrauss wrote: > > It seems the basic premise, > "Wikidata references should be unique as possible", > I will use your phrase from here. I don’t see the need for this, what is the problem with having 2 osm objects pointing to the same wikid

Re: [Tagging] Missing access value (access=license / authorization?)

sent from a phone > On 7. Aug 2018, at 21:53, Szem wrote: > > How can I support it to make progress? use the tag yourself and encourage other mappers to do the same. Cheers, Martin ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists

Re: [Tagging] Missing access value (access=license / authorization?)

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 8:53 PM, Szem wrote: > I've tried and understand more or less. How can I support it to make > progress? > Mention the page on this list. We've done that. Ask the list for suggestions/comments. After a couple of weeks of that tell the list you're opening voting and open

Re: [Tagging] Missing access value (access=license / authorization?)

Sorry I'm so stupid, but what link I could +1 2018.08.07. 21:58 keltezéssel, Javier Sánchez Portero írta: +1 for access=permit I support it Regards, Javier El mar., 7 ago. 2018 20:38, Paul Allen > escribió: On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Szem mailto:szembiket.

Re: [Tagging] Missing access value (access=license / authorization?)

+1 for access=permit I support it Regards, Javier El mar., 7 ago. 2018 20:38, Paul Allen escribió: > On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Szem wrote: > >> Thanks. I have three problems: it's a huge amount of texts :( and I do >> not speak english so good :(( and I do not understand truly the correl

Re: [Tagging] Missing access value (access=license / authorization?)

I've tried and understand more or less. How can I support it to make progress? 2018.08.07. 21:37 keltezéssel, Paul Allen írta: On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Szem > wrote: Thanks.I have three problems: it's a huge amount of texts :( and I do not speak en

Re: [Tagging] Missing access value (access=license / authorization?)

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 8:26 PM, Szem wrote: > Thanks. I have three problems: it's a huge amount of texts :( and I do > not speak english so good :(( and I do not understand truly the correlation > of this method and writing the wiki :((( > So what's the next? > Feed the text through google trans

Re: [Tagging] Missing access value (access=license / authorization?)

Thanks.I have three problems: it's a huge amount of texts :( and I do not speak english so good :(( and I do not understand truly the correlation of this method and writing the wiki :((( So what's the next? 2018.08.07. 20:56 keltezéssel, Paul Allen írta: On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 7:02 PM, Szem

Re: [Tagging] Flood mark or high water mark

W dniu 06.08.2018 o 01:48, Warin pisze: On 06/08/18 09:01, Dave Swarthout wrote: > I would think a good start would be changing the wiki to make it historic=flood_level, leaving any reference to high (or low) water to be a waterways thing ie the high tide mark. Before making any changes in wi

Re: [Tagging] Missing access value (access=license / authorization?)

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 7:02 PM, Szem wrote: > I've never done this before too. If I can help anyone I'll try... > I decided to start off a proposal page for you to flesh out. And when I tried, I found it was already there. Take a look at https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/a

Re: [Tagging] Missing access value (access=license / authorization?)

I've never done this before too. If I can help anyone I'll try... Szem 2018.08.02. 20:35 keltezéssel, Paul Allen írta: On Thu, Aug 2, 2018 at 7:10 PM, Kevin Kenny mailto:kevin.b.kenny+...@gmail.com>> wrote: Is there a documented process for putting a proposal? https://wiki.openstreetmap.

Re: [Tagging] Part/whole confusion with Wikidata tag, and the need for enveloping parts into a whole

Il giorno mar 7 ago 2018 alle ore 18:37 peterkrauss < pe...@openstreetmap.com.br> ha scritto: > > > > > Using route or site relations when appropriate is a good solution. > > Ok, lets elect the OSM Map Features that are Wikidata-good-solutions > > * "type=boundary" (6,525,236 elements) > > * "type

Re: [Tagging] Part/whole confusion with Wikidata tag, and the need for enveloping parts into a whole

Em 2018-08-06 20:46, François Lacombe escreveu: Hi Peterkrauss, Thanks François, important topics... I second the need you mention of a relation in a whole. Wikidata references should be unique as possible in the db. It seems the basic premise, "Wikidata references should be unique as p

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

sent from a phone > On 7. Aug 2018, at 15:53, Colin Smale wrote: > > There are several countries that span multiple continents... Russia, Turkey, > Spain and indeed France for example indeed, countries and continents are orthogonal concepts, and countries shouldn’t have an influence on how

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

sent from a phone > On 7. Aug 2018, at 10:20, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > Do we really want to approximate whole continents with a point, and if > we do, where is that point to be placed? obviously there isn’t a correct position for a continent node that cannot be modified without changing it

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Evacuation Route

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 -‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐ On August 7, 2018 11:27 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: > > On 6. Aug 2018, at 06:30, Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote: > > And it might be better to place it directly in the emergency key? > > Say emergency=evacuati

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - Evacuation Route

sent from a phone > On 6. Aug 2018, at 06:30, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > > And it might be better to place it directly in the emergency key? > Say emergency=evacuation_route??? Humm emergency says it is not for > relations. Arr well. I think there shouldn’t be “relations” at all

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

On 2018-08-07 15:43, marc marc wrote: > I think there's too much redundancy in using is_in:continent. > it is useless, for example, to say that a street + the municipality > + the region + the country is all in the same continent. > it is enough to tag the largest polygon with is_in:continent and

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

This would (only) be possible if there was a (at least one) deterministic way of establishing the location of the boundary. Would you base it on the admin boundaries, coastlines and established baselines? The IHO definitions? Indeed, why not have a polygon for the Med? On 2018-08-07 13:17, djak

Re: [Tagging] Part/whole confusion with Wikidata tag, and the need for enveloping parts into a whole

Christoph, you are right that some loosely defined areas like rainforests may not have exact boundaries. We can find limitations and issues in defining/naming/linking pretty much anything, e.g. see discussion for "[Tagging] place nodes for continents". That said, in a large number of cases, it is b

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

I think there's too much redundancy in using is_in:continent. it is useless, for example, to say that a street + the municipality + the region + the country is all in the same continent. it is enough to tag the largest polygon with is_in:continent and erase those that provide the same information

Re: [Tagging] Points instead of areas

On Tuesday 07 August 2018, Daniel Koc4� wrote: > > A word regarding tolerance of coordinates and the implication that > > they should be or have to be within the tolerance of measuring > > devices - i don't think this is or should be the case. The point > > of verifiability in OSM is not a toleran

Re: [Tagging] Points instead of areas

On Tue, Aug 7, 2018 at 12:56 PM, Daniel Koć wrote: > > The problem of how much continents there is and how are they named, is > just parallel - it's > equally valid problem for points and areas. Just to add to the confusion, the attribution of a location to a continent depends upon context, eve

[Tagging] Points instead of areas

A continents discussion spin-off: W dniu 07.08.2018 o 11:31, Christoph Hormann pisze: > A word regarding tolerance of coordinates and the implication that they > should be or have to be within the tolerance of measuring devices - i > don't think this is or should be the case. The point of verif

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

Why not a big polygon for each continent, subcontinent, ocean, sea ... ? djakk Le mar. 7 août 2018 à 12:28, Colin Smale a écrit : > As even continents now appear to be subjective, all uses of them should be > associated with the chosen frame of reference, much like one always > associates a cu

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

As even continents now appear to be subjective, all uses of them should be associated with the chosen frame of reference, much like one always associates a currency with an amount. A given lump of rock can be in multiple continents, each with its own authority, all correct in their own ways. On 20

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

El mar., 7 ago. 2018 a las 10:33, Warin (<61sundow...@gmail.com>) escribió: > But "Officially, there is no centre of Australia." So say the experts. > Probably because they cannot reach consensus, sounds familiar :) > We are extending on the "centre" problem, but there aren't even a consensus in

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

Maybe I'm extending the fork, but only a mention to consider. While there are only 8 uses of place=continent, there are 179996 (whow!) uses of is_in:continent=* that will be orphaned in that case. https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/is_in:continent El mar., 7 ago. 2018 a las 10:15, Eugene Alvi

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

On 07/08/18 19:13, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote: On Tuesday, August 7, 2018, Javier Sánchez Portero mailto:javiers...@gmail.com>> wrote: > The same applies to other place nodes like oceans, seas, natural bays, straits, etc. At the risk of forking this discussion to another topic, I'd like to

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

On Tuesday 07 August 2018, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > How is a continent node verifiable, especially with regards to its > position? What is our plan if two people should start edit-warring > about whether the continent node should be at 51.002, > -109.002 (as it currently is), or rather at 5

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

On Tuesday, August 7, 2018, Javier Sánchez Portero wrote: > The same applies to other place nodes like oceans, seas, natural bays, straits, etc. At the risk of forking this discussion to another topic, I'd like to point out that at least for oceans and major seas, bays, and straits, the Internati

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

El mar., 7 ago. 2018 a las 9:33, althio () escribió: > I agree this position is debatable and finally arbitrary. > Hi Althio Then should we delete this node or abstain to create place nodes for continents? Or should we give a try to the debate and move to a better position? The same applies to o

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

Hi Frederik You can find many examples of places that are verifiable by its boundary, some countries, provinces, municipalities, but most of the names in geography refers to diffuse places, from towns to the Amazon Forest (cross link to Wikidata tag thread). Can't we map them in OSM? For such plac

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

I agree this position is debatable and finally arbitrary. And I find this particular position (for North America node) rather strange, it feels too much North, as if it was biased for Mercator projection maybe. As arbitrary as it is, we could accept by definition something like https://en.m.wikipe

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

sent from a phone > On 7. Aug 2018, at 09:58, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > Hi, > > place nodes for continents - are they useful? > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/36966063 years ago I used them in z1 for labeling, but it turned out it was more reliable to keep a tiny separate shapefile f

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

Hi, On 07.08.2018 10:04, Ilya Zverev wrote: > It is a strange question, which can be applied to virtually anything in > OSM. Potholes — are they useful? Ok, I'll re-word: How is a continent node verifiable, especially with regards to its position? What is our plan if two people should start edit

Re: [Tagging] place nodes for continents?

Yes. We in maps.me, for example, use them to label continents. It is a strange question, which can be applied to virtually anything in OSM. Potholes — are they useful? Street lamps — are they useful? Island nodes? Tree nodes? Landcover? Paths? Ilya 07.08.2018 10:58, Frederik Ramm пишет: Hi

Re: [Tagging] Part/whole confusion with Wikidata tag, and the need for enveloping parts into a whole

On Monday 06 August 2018, peterkrauss wrote: > > Seems a commom quality problem of part/whole confusion in the > Wikidata attribution or OSM's POI reference... And where there are a > need for "enveloping parts into a whole". > > [...] The fact that there is no agreement on the nature of the relat

[Tagging] place nodes for continents?

Hi, place nodes for continents - are they useful? https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/36966063 Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.o