Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On torsdag den 15. februar 2018 17.20.08 CET Dave F wrote: > On 14/02/2018 20:19, Matej Lieskovský wrote: > > If two ways enter a roundabout at the same point, you can turn from > > road A into road B instantly, > > but going from B to A will require going around the entire roundabout. > > For a

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 15/02/2018 16:49, Dave F wrote: Again, the way containing the shared node has junction=roundabout in it. You are entering & exiting a roundabout Using that argument elsewhere, if I drive northwest up the A446 at https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/1165#map=17/52.55098/-1.73102 "the way

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 15/02/2018 08:52, Tom Pfeifer wrote: On 14.02.2018 17:39, Dave F wrote: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5408566797 It appears that you already engage in an edit war, although half a dozen people here tell you, from a variety of perspectives, that you are wrong.

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 15/02/2018 09:11, Mateusz Konieczny wrote: Especially, as from looking at aerial images it is clear that these roads are not entering/leaving at the same point. It's very poor mapping to assume aerial imagery is current. DaveF ___ talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

If I'm judging the angles correctly, OsmAnd will not even announce that intersection: the angle between Wapping and Commercial is shallow enough that OsmAnd sees it as a single road, while the angle between Wapping and the roundabout is sharp enough to not require a "keep left" instruction.

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 14/02/2018 20:19, Matej Lieskovský wrote: If two ways enter a roundabout at the same point, you can turn from road A into road B instantly, but going from B to A will require going around the entire roundabout. For a router to detect this, it would have to check (for every encountered

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 15/02/2018 10:05, Maarten Deen wrote: On 2018-02-14 19:39, Dave F wrote: On 14/02/2018 18:23, Johan C wrote: No, they are not. Roundabouts are special types of intersections.  Which is another type of intersection. They have a way on which you can drive round. And round. And round.

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 15/02/2018 09:33, Andy Townsend wrote: On 14/02/2018 18:57, Dave F wrote: On 14/02/2018 18:32, Andy Townsend wrote: Having one exit node not joined to the next entry node better represents the real-world situation*. Disagree. Sharing a node should make no difference to the real world

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

Just to throw another concept into the mix... so-called flare roads, where a road joining a roundabout (or other junction for that matter) splits into two short one-way segments which go either side of an obstacle. Mkgmap tries to recognise them by seeing if they come together within X metres. Why

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 2018-02-14 19:39, Dave F wrote: On 14/02/2018 18:23, Johan C wrote: No, they are not. Roundabouts are special types of intersections. Which is another type of intersection. They have a way on which you can drive round. And round. And round. And they have other ways leading to and from

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 14/02/2018 18:57, Dave F wrote: On 14/02/2018 18:32, Andy Townsend wrote: Having one exit node not joined to the next entry node better represents the real-world situation*. Disagree. Sharing a node should make no difference to the real world or a router's perception of it. With

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On Thu, 15 Feb 2018 09:52:19 +0100 Tom Pfeifer wrote: > May we ask you to undo your revert in CS 56352276? You still have not > explained how the two node solution "fudge OSM". Especially, as from looking at aerial images it is clear that these roads are not

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

> > > To repeat myself. You can determine if you need to "drive on this round > way" from a single node. No need for a section between entrance & exit. > You can. You're at it now. Someone else can be thinking of all the other cases while implementing their thing. Sometimes people think "this is

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 14.02.2018 17:39, Dave F wrote: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5408566797 It appears that you already engage in an edit war, although half a dozen people here tell you, from a variety of perspectives, that you are wrong. https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/56352276 On 14.02.2018

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

If two ways enter a roundabout at the same point, you can turn from road A into road B instantly, but going from B to A will require going around the entire roundabout. For a router to detect this, it would have to check (for every encountered node): 1) is this a part of a roundabout? 2) if yes,

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 19:23:39 +0100 Johan C wrote: > The present tagging (used since 2005 or so, and all around the globe) > is fine. I agree, I see no problem with this recommendation. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 16:39:29 + Dave F wrote: > I think I have read it correctly. > > https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5408566797 > > It is easy to determine this shared node is part of the roundabout as > well as the entrance from Wapping & can exit along

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 14/02/2018 18:32, Andy Townsend wrote: Having one exit node not joined to the next entry node better represents the real-world situation*. Disagree. Sharing a node should make no difference to the real world or a router's perception of it. DaveF.

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

It doesn't work like that anywhere in OSM. I can cross a road that I'm not allowed to drive on. The router does not need to know anything about the road that I'm crossing and I can always cross a road that I'm not allowed to enter. It would make mapping extremely awkward if that were not so.

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 14/02/2018 18:23, Johan C wrote: No, they are not. Roundabouts are special types of intersections. Which is another type of intersection. They have a way on which you can drive round. And round. And round. And they have other ways leading to and from this round way. Whenever you enter the

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

(... snip ...) Technically speaking you are not because you are just touching one node of the roundabout. Yes you are. You may not be on there very long, but you approach the roundabout, pass the signs saying it's a roundabout, give way to those already on it, you enter it & then indicate that

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

2018-02-14 18:50 GMT+01:00 Dave F : > On 14/02/2018 17:13, Maarten Deen wrote: > >> On 2018-02-14 17:39, Dave F wrote: >> >>> I think I have read it correctly. >>> >>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5408566797 >>> >>> It is easy to determine this shared node is

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 2018-02-14 18:50, Dave F wrote: On 14/02/2018 17:13, Maarten Deen wrote: On 2018-02-14 17:39, Dave F wrote: I think I have read it correctly. https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5408566797 It is easy to determine this shared node is part of the roundabout as well as the entrance from

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 14/02/2018 17:13, Maarten Deen wrote: On 2018-02-14 17:39, Dave F wrote: I think I have read it correctly. https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5408566797 It is easy to determine this shared node is part of the roundabout as well as the entrance from Wapping & can exit along Commercial, or

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 14/02/2018 16:50, Colin Smale wrote: Based on my experiences with mkgmap it's not so much a routing problem as a navigation problem. The router will pick the correct path through the graph but the translation to "human instructions" get confused, like the exit numbers and the way the

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 2018-02-14 17:39, Dave F wrote: I think I have read it correctly. https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5408566797 It is easy to determine this shared node is part of the roundabout as well as the entrance from Wapping & can exit along Commercial, or if required, continue around the

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

Based on my experiences with mkgmap it's not so much a routing problem as a navigation problem. The router will pick the correct path through the graph but the translation to "human instructions" get confused, like the exit numbers and the way the roundabouts display. Turning right at a

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

I think I have read it correctly. https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/5408566797 It is easy to determine this shared node is part of the roundabout as well as the entrance from Wapping & can exit along Commercial, or if required, continue around the roundabout: How is this different from, say,

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On 2018-02-14 15:53, Dave F wrote: Hi Could anyone give me an explanation for this line from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction=roundabout "Each road has to be connected with the roundabout in a separate node—that is, between these nodes a segment of the roundabout is required."

Re: [OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

On Wed, 14 Feb 2018 14:53:07 + Dave F wrote: > I see no requirement for a separate segment: Can you give example of roundabount (preferably, with good aerial images) where such requirement makes mapping problematic?

[OSM-talk] Roundabouts - why is a separate segment required?

Hi Could anyone give me an explanation for this line from https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction=roundabout "Each road has to be connected with the roundabout in a separate node—that is, between these nodes a segment of the roundabout is required." I see no requirement for a