Re: [OSM-talk] Support OSM communities and disaster response this holiday season (by 31 Dec)

[Simon Poole]

I don't think that it is really any of our business what HOT does with
its funds.

I do consider it slightly ironical that HOT is approaching non-HOT OSM
for funds to distribute to what are in the end OSM groups though, surely
we can do that ourselves if it should be done at all.  Wouldn't we
rather want to spend our money on making groups dependent on us (as in
larger OSM and the OSMF) and not on an organisation we don't control at
all? Making that process transparent is then in our hands (see my
suggestion to have funds dissemination to be done by a different group
than the OSMF board).

Simon

Am 16.12.2017 um 17:52 schrieb Martin Koppenhoefer:
> 2017-12-16 17:04 GMT+01:00 Eugene Alvin Villar  >:
>
>
> And surely saying that the decision-making process is "completely
> intransparent" is just being plain lazy. Here are several blog
> posts and documents providing quite a bit of detail into the
> process and results that can be reached with just a couple minutes
> of Googling:
>
> 
> https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2016-12-06_funds_for_community_led_projects_the_2017_hot_microgrants_program
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2017-02-02_hot_microgrants_programme_launches_0
> 
> 
> 
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SVI_wxf0CbZ2pOOf8kuqREkZwvmxmSTp9i3jbHsBkCo/edit
> 
> 
> https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2017-04-20_hot_microgrants_2017_results
> 
>
>
>
> Eugene, you have posted 4 links, can you please explain how these
> pages contribute to transparency of the decision making process? The
> only 2 hints about the selection process I have found are as vague as
> possible:
>
>
> "* Who decides?
> Applications will be evaluated and funding decisions made by a panel
> with representation from HOT senior staff, Board of Directors, HOT
> voting membership, donor organizations, and external advisors."
>
> and then:
> "We had a fantastic response to our first ever Microgrants Programme,
> with over 70 applications from nearly 50 countries worldwide. After
> much deliberation, we’re pleased to announce we are supporting the
> following projects with Microgrants for 2017 (in no particular order):"
> (followed by a list of 8 projects)
>
> Cheers,
> Martin
>
>
> ___
> talk mailing list
> talk@openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk



signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Support OSM communities and disaster response this holiday season (by 31 Dec)

[Martin Koppenhoefer]

2017-12-16 17:04 GMT+01:00 Eugene Alvin Villar :

>
> And surely saying that the decision-making process is "completely
> intransparent" is just being plain lazy. Here are several blog posts and
> documents providing quite a bit of detail into the process and results that
> can be reached with just a couple minutes of Googling:
>
> https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2016-12-06_funds_for_
> community_led_projects_the_2017_hot_microgrants_program
> https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2017-02-02_hot_microgrants_programme_
> launches_0
> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SVI_wxf0CbZ2pOOf8kuqREkZwvmxmSTp9i
> 3jbHsBkCo/edit
> https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2017-04-20_hot_microgrants_2017_results
>
>

Eugene, you have posted 4 links, can you please explain how these pages
contribute to transparency of the decision making process? The only 2 hints
about the selection process I have found are as vague as possible:


"* Who decides?
Applications will be evaluated and funding decisions made by a panel with
representation from HOT senior staff, Board of Directors, HOT voting
membership, donor organizations, and external advisors."

and then:
"We had a fantastic response to our first ever Microgrants Programme, with
over 70 applications from nearly 50 countries worldwide. After much
deliberation, we’re pleased to announce we are supporting the following
projects with Microgrants for 2017 (in no particular order):"
(followed by a list of 8 projects)

Cheers,
Martin
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Support OSM communities and disaster response this holiday season (by 31 Dec)

[Christoph Hormann]

On Saturday 16 December 2017, Eugene Alvin Villar wrote:
>
> I'm not sure if you are aware of how the microgrant system is run,
> but local OSM communities, such as OSM Zambia, submit grant proposals
> which are then selected by HOT. This is what is meant by Tyler when
> he wrote "OSM community leaders". These are basically the "leaders"
> (in the broadest sense of the word) of local communities who do the
> work of actually conceptualizing/writing a grant proposal. Hence,
> "projects conceptualized by OSM community leaders".
>
> And surely saying that the decision-making process is "completely
> intransparent" is just being plain lazy. Here are several blog posts
> and documents providing quite a bit of detail into the process and
> results that can be reached with just a couple minutes of Googling:

Thanks for the links.

I stand by my critique of how the OSM community is engrossed in how this 
is presented by HOT and also by my assessment of the decision making 
processes being intransparent (the validity of which has no bearing on 
the main point of critique though).

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Support OSM communities and disaster response this holiday season (by 31 Dec)

[Eugene Alvin Villar]

On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 2:44 AM, Christoph Hormann  wrote:

> On Thursday 14 December 2017, Tyler Radford wrote:
> > [...] big-impact projects conceptualized by OSM community leaders.
>
> I had hoped that HOT learned from the tasking manager problem a few
> months back that properly referring to OSM in a way that clarifies the
> difference between HOT and OSM is important.  The above indicates this
> hope was in vain.
>
> By saying your microgrant projects are "conceptualized by OSM community
> leaders" you imply support and endorsement from the OSM community and
> draw legitimacy from this for what from my perspective seems to be a
> program with completely intransparent decision making processes.  You
> also imply the existence of a hierarchy in OSM of leaders and followers
> which is not an accurate representation of the reality of OSM either.
>
> There is nothing wrong with supporting mapping projects with money, even
> if the criteria for that are unclear and subjective but you should not
> present this as if this financing is somehow integrated into and
> supervised by the OSM community.
>

Christoph, it's no secret that you are quite skeptical about HOT and wary
of their influence on the wider OSM community, but I think you are letting
your views color any communication from HOT in a negative light.

I'm not sure if you are aware of how the microgrant system is run, but
local OSM communities, such as OSM Zambia, submit grant proposals which are
then selected by HOT. This is what is meant by Tyler when he wrote "OSM
community leaders". These are basically the "leaders" (in the broadest
sense of the word) of local communities who do the work of actually
conceptualizing/writing a grant proposal. Hence, "projects conceptualized
by OSM community leaders".

And surely saying that the decision-making process is "completely
intransparent" is just being plain lazy. Here are several blog posts and
documents providing quite a bit of detail into the process and results that
can be reached with just a couple minutes of Googling:

https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2016-12-06_funds_for_community_led_projects_the_2017_hot_microgrants_program
https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2017-02-02_hot_microgrants_programme_launches_0
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1SVI_wxf0CbZ2pOOf8kuqREkZwvmxmSTp9i3jbHsBkCo/edit
https://www.hotosm.org/updates/2017-04-20_hot_microgrants_2017_results
___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

Re: [OSM-talk] Support OSM communities and disaster response this holiday season (by 31 Dec)

[Christoph Hormann]

On Thursday 14 December 2017, Tyler Radford wrote:
> [...] big-impact projects conceptualized by OSM community
> leaders.

I had hoped that HOT learned from the tasking manager problem a few 
months back that properly referring to OSM in a way that clarifies the 
difference between HOT and OSM is important.  The above indicates this 
hope was in vain.

By saying your microgrant projects are "conceptualized by OSM community 
leaders" you imply support and endorsement from the OSM community and 
draw legitimacy from this for what from my perspective seems to be a 
program with completely intransparent decision making processes.  You 
also imply the existence of a hierarchy in OSM of leaders and followers 
which is not an accurate representation of the reality of OSM either.

There is nothing wrong with supporting mapping projects with money, even 
if the criteria for that are unclear and subjective but you should not 
present this as if this financing is somehow integrated into and 
supervised by the OSM community.

-- 
Christoph Hormann
http://www.imagico.de/

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk

[OSM-talk] Support OSM communities and disaster response this holiday season (by 31 Dec)

[Tyler Radford]

Dear all,

In 2016 hundreds of you supported the dream of starting a small grants
program to grow and sustain the activities of emerging OSM communities.
Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team (HOT) was proud to administer this
"Microgrants" program, distributing more than $38,000 to 9 small-scale,
big-impact projects conceptualized by OSM community leaders.

This year, we want to scale the collective ability of the OpenStreetMap
community to respond to disaster and crisis. A big component of this is
continuing to strengthen OSM communities in vulnerable countries via a 2018
round of Microgrants. Would you consider making a year-end contribution by
December 31?

https://donate.hotosm.org

More about results to date:
https://www.hotosm.org/projects/microgrants_and_community_development

Best wishes for a happy and peaceful end of the year.
Tyler

*Tyler Radford*
Executive Director
tyler.radf...@hotosm.org
@TylerSRadford

*Humanitarian OpenStreetMap Team*
*Using OpenStreetMap for Humanitarian Response & Economic Development*

*Help us #mapthedifference

by Dec. 31*
web  | twitter  | facebook
 | donate

___
talk mailing list
talk@openstreetmap.org
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk