Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread dirtdoc
Woops! Sorry.  So much for a quick read.  My comment still stands, however.  Dwight - Original Message - From: "George Veni" To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:36:10 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread dirtdoc
Woops! Sorry.  So much for a quick read.  My comment still stands, however.  Dwight - Original Message - From: "George Veni" To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:36:10 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread dirtdoc
Woops! Sorry.  So much for a quick read.  My comment still stands, however.  Dwight - Original Message - From: "George Veni" To: texascavers@texascavers.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 5:36:10 PM Subject: RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org From: dirt...@comcast.net [mailto:dirt...@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 17:07 To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation I have

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org From: dirt...@comcast.net [mailto:dirt...@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 17:07 To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation I have

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
USA Office: 575-887-5517 Mobile: 210-863-5919 Fax: 575-887-5523 gv...@nckri.org www.nckri.org From: dirt...@comcast.net [mailto:dirt...@comcast.net] Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 17:07 To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation I have

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread dirtdoc
I have been following the calcite "sand" posts with interest.   George, I suspect the soils may be more important than you acknowledge.   I think it depends more on residence time and partial pressure (and, of course, plant activity) than "thickness" of the soils as such.   In a related

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread dirtdoc
I have been following the calcite "sand" posts with interest.   George, I suspect the soils may be more important than you acknowledge.   I think it depends more on residence time and partial pressure (and, of course, plant activity) than "thickness" of the soils as such.   In a related

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread dirtdoc
I have been following the calcite "sand" posts with interest.   George, I suspect the soils may be more important than you acknowledge.   I think it depends more on residence time and partial pressure (and, of course, plant activity) than "thickness" of the soils as such.   In a related

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Joe & Evelynn
I have a fresh Austin chalk cave rock ready to go in a vacuum chamber connected to a mass spec to measure the outgassing, which may give us some data soon. Joe Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2012, at 10:25 AM, "George Veni" wrote: > "As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Joe & Evelynn
I have a fresh Austin chalk cave rock ready to go in a vacuum chamber connected to a mass spec to measure the outgassing, which may give us some data soon. Joe Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2012, at 10:25 AM, "George Veni" wrote: > "As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Joe & Evelynn
I have a fresh Austin chalk cave rock ready to go in a vacuum chamber connected to a mass spec to measure the outgassing, which may give us some data soon. Joe Sent from my iPhone On Feb 14, 2012, at 10:25 AM, "George Veni" wrote: > "As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
"As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open question. I'm not so sure about soils since there isn't much in central Texas. In small caves it could be organics. But in larger caves, I tend to favor out gassing from the limestone as it is dissolved by water - especially in caves that

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
"As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open question. I'm not so sure about soils since there isn't much in central Texas. In small caves it could be organics. But in larger caves, I tend to favor out gassing from the limestone as it is dissolved by water - especially in caves that

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
"As for the origin of the CO2, I think that is still an open question. I'm not so sure about soils since there isn't much in central Texas. In small caves it could be organics. But in larger caves, I tend to favor out gassing from the limestone as it is dissolved by water - especially in caves that

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
g www.nckri.org -Original Message- From: Benjamin Schwartz [mailto:b...@txstate.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 07:51 To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation While temperature, moisture content, and seasonality probably do have some

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
g www.nckri.org -Original Message- From: Benjamin Schwartz [mailto:b...@txstate.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 07:51 To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation While temperature, moisture content, and seasonality probably do have some

RE: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread George Veni
g www.nckri.org -Original Message- From: Benjamin Schwartz [mailto:b...@txstate.edu] Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2012 07:51 To: texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation While temperature, moisture content, and seasonality probably do have some

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Joe & Evelynn
Almost right. The CO2 levels and airflow velocities are essentially barometrically driven (not chimney effect which requires substantial elevation differences). In the summer barometric pressure changes are usually small so little air exchange occurs (and CO2 levels can build). In the winter, fr

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Joe & Evelynn
Almost right. The CO2 levels and airflow velocities are essentially barometrically driven (not chimney effect which requires substantial elevation differences). In the summer barometric pressure changes are usually small so little air exchange occurs (and CO2 levels can build). In the winter, fr

Re: [Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Joe & Evelynn
Almost right. The CO2 levels and airflow velocities are essentially barometrically driven (not chimney effect which requires substantial elevation differences). In the summer barometric pressure changes are usually small so little air exchange occurs (and CO2 levels can build). In the winter, fr

[Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Benjamin Schwartz
While temperature, moisture content, and seasonality probably do have some effects on raft deposition in the stream passage, and certainly effect CO2 generation in the soil horizon, my observations in CWAN are that these effects on the surface are actually driving airflow changes in the cave, w

[Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Benjamin Schwartz
While temperature, moisture content, and seasonality probably do have some effects on raft deposition in the stream passage, and certainly effect CO2 generation in the soil horizon, my observations in CWAN are that these effects on the surface are actually driving airflow changes in the cave, w

[Texascavers] Re: Honey Creek sand observation

2012-02-14 Thread Benjamin Schwartz
While temperature, moisture content, and seasonality probably do have some effects on raft deposition in the stream passage, and certainly effect CO2 generation in the soil horizon, my observations in CWAN are that these effects on the surface are actually driving airflow changes in the cave, w