Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-02 Thread Bob Camp
Hi You don’t *have* to go to the “many days” approach if that’s beyond the accuracy you require. You *can* go there if you need to. If you don’t have a GPSDO (or something similar) it may not make much sense to go quite that far. Even with less accurate sources, the same approach still works.

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-02 Thread Tony Finch
Hal Murray wrote: > > Internally, Linux (and most other modern OSes) use UTC. The API doesn't > include the TAI offset. There is no way to talk about the extra second. See adjtimex(2) for a description of the leap second API. Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finchhttp://dotat.at/ Humber, Thames: Sout

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-02 Thread Hal Murray
dave.martind...@gmail.com said: > It seems odd that the Garmin receiver got it wrong. The Garmin GPS-20 and > -25, which I think are both older than the 18x, get it correct. I haven't played with the -20 or -25, but I have -18 (no x) as well as -18x. It's easy to tell the -18 from the -18x just

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-02 Thread Dave Martindale
It seems odd that the Garmin receiver got it wrong. The Garmin GPS-20 and -25, which I think are both older than the 18x, get it correct. The GPS-20 is so old it is a single-channel receiver, the GPS-25 is 12-channel but still 5 V power. GPS-20, June 1998: $GPRMC,235959,A,4913.2184,N,12305.9266,

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Bob Albert via time-nuts
Oh boy Chris, some good information there.  I guess my first step would be to get a GPS disciplined source.  My preference would be to use an external 10 MHz source.  And even if I did, I'd lose it some times of day depending on propagation.  Maybe the 1 pps to set my OCXO as close as I can get

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Alex Pummer
"I logged NMEA from three cheap ($15-$50) GPS/1PPS receivers, the kind popular with hobbyists: parallax(good), reyax(good), adafruit(bad)." what is the problem with the adafruit board? 73 KJ6UHN Alex On 7/1/2015 4:34 PM, Kasper Pedersen wrote: On 07/01/2015 05:23 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: I log

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Tom Van Baak
> Okay that makes some sense. I will have to ponder over this and see how it > will help. > But in any case (which I sort of expected) it's a time consuming procedure, > during which the counter isn't available for other use. Bob, I suspect you don't quite have it yet. Make one measurement today

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Take your OCXO and divide it down to 1 pps. Take the PPS out of your GPSDO Feed both of them into your counter Time the “delta” between the two to the resolution of a 40 year old 5335 ( low ns). Wait 10 seconds Repeat You now have data to a resolution of ~2x10^-10 Shut down the counter, go

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Kasper Pedersen
On 07/01/2015 05:23 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: > I logged NMEA from three cheap ($15-$50) GPS/1PPS receivers, the kind popular > with hobbyists: parallax(good), reyax(good), adafruit(bad). > > 3) Adafruit Ultimate GPS Breakout > http://www.adafruit.com/products/746 > > If someone else has dat

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Bob Albert via time-nuts
Okay that makes some sense.  I will have to ponder over this and see how it will help.  But in any case (which I sort of expected) it's a time consuming procedure, during which the counter isn't available for other use.  And when I go to bed I won't know the next day if I might have missed a cou

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Bob Albert via time-nuts
So I can measure the time interval, which should be one second.  If I measure 10 intervals, my resolution would be 1 part in 10 million.  I think I can set the master oscillator closer than that with beating against WWV. So maybe buying a 1 pps source won't improve anything for me. On W

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Chris Caudle
On Wed, July 1, 2015 12:55 pm, Bob Albert via time-nuts wrote: > I am missing something here.  How does one use a 1 PPS signal? > I see how I can use a 1 MHz or 10 MHz for a time standard but > the 1 PPS usage eludes me. Actually you have it backwards. A 1MHz or 10MHz can be a frequency standard

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Hal Murray
time-nuts@febo.com said: > I am missing something here.  How does one use a 1 PPS signal? I see how I > can use a 1 MHz or 10 MHz for a time standard but the 1 PPS usage eludes > me.  Unless the pulse is extremely sharp, a minor uncertainty in the shape > or amplitude will have profound effects on

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Hal Murray
subscripti...@burble.com said: > My linux boxes also did a double 59: > Wed Jul 1 00:59:58 BST 2015 > Wed Jul 1 00:59:59 BST 2015 > Wed Jul 1 00:59:59 BST 2015 > Wed Jul 1 01:00:00 BST 2015 > Wed Jul 1 01:00:01 BST 2015 That's to be expected (unless you have fancy software). Internally, Li

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Tom Van Baak
ement Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers I am missing something here. How does one use a 1 PPS signal? I see how I can use a 1 MHz or 10 MHz for a time standard but the 1 PPS usage eludes me. Unless the pulse is extremely

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Tom Van Baak
uency measurement Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 10:55 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers I am missing something here. How does one use a 1 PPS signal? I see how I can use a 1 MHz or 10 MHz for a time standard but the 1 PPS usage eludes me. Unless the pul

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Simon Marsh
On 01/07/2015 16:23, Tom Van Baak wrote: 3) Adafruit Ultimate GPS Breakout http://www.adafruit.com/products/746 This GPS receiver appeared to mess up the 2015 leap second, with a double 5959 and possible receiver reset: (I also had serial communications issues with this board today) If s

Re: [time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Bob Albert via time-nuts
I am missing something here.  How does one use a 1 PPS signal? I see how I can use a 1 MHz or 10 MHz for a time standard but the 1 PPS usage eludes me.  Unless the pulse is extremely sharp, a minor uncertainty in the shape or amplitude will have profound effects on the timing. I use an HP 5328A

[time-nuts] Leap Second results: cheap GPS/1PPS receivers

2015-07-01 Thread Tom Van Baak
I logged NMEA from three cheap ($15-$50) GPS/1PPS receivers, the kind popular with hobbyists: parallax(good), reyax(good), adafruit(bad). 1) Parallax PAM-7Q GPS Module https://www.parallax.com/product/28509 When I powered up this board, I see: $GPTXT,01,01,02,u-blox ag - www.u-blox.com*50