Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-21 Thread Bob Camp
Hi I think I would grab some sort of USB thermometer and start logging the room temperature. CMOS input op-amps are a pretty good way to buffer the integrating capacitor. They are cheap and have very low bias currents. Bob On Dec 21, 2012, at 7:43 AM, fabi...@quipo.it wrote: > Hello, while

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-21 Thread WB6BNQ
Hi Fabio, I am not crazy about your 10 MHz input circuit. You might want to consider investigating John Miles input arrangement at the following web site: http://www.ke5fx.com/ac.htm I used it to drive an input to a divider chip without the output resistor or capacitor. BillWB6BNQ fabi..

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-21 Thread Magnus Danielson
Hi Fabio, On 12/21/2012 01:43 PM, fabi...@quipo.it wrote: Hello, while waiting fot the final doom, or a new job (tough times here) here is another update of the work I'm doing, sorry for the looong mail, hope I'm not boring the readers. I have a question about a some measurements I made, and I'

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-22 Thread FabioEb
I answer here to Bob Bill and Magnus. Hi I think I would grab some sort of USB thermometer and start logging the room temperature. CMOS input op-amps are a pretty good way to buffer the integrating capacitor. They are cheap and have very low bias currents. Bob The suspect is temperature, th

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-22 Thread Bob Camp
Hi It is often harder to measure a pulse that goes from 0 to 100 ns than it is to measure one that goes from 100 to 200 ns. The resolution on the 0 to 100 measure will be 2X, but the non-linearities at zero are quite difficult to deal with. The 100 to 200 measure can get to the same resolutio

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-22 Thread Magnus Danielson
Dear Fabio, On 12/22/2012 02:34 PM, fabi...@quipo.it wrote: I answer here to Bob Bill and Magnus. Hi I think I would grab some sort of USB thermometer and start logging the room temperature. CMOS input op-amps are a pretty good way to buffer the integrating capacitor. They are cheap and have v

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-22 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Magnus Danielson wrote: Dear Fabio, On 12/22/2012 02:34 PM, fabi...@quipo.it wrote: I answer here to Bob Bill and Magnus. Hi I think I would grab some sort of USB thermometer and start logging the room temperature. CMOS input op-amps are a pretty good way to buffer the integrating capacitor.

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-22 Thread Fabio Eboli
When it comes to phase, your interpolator may also be sensitive. Dont know if I was clear enough, just in case I wasnt able to explain well before: the data I collected didnt came from the analog interpolator, but from the OutD that is a digital out. The interpolator is still in it's infancy.

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-22 Thread Fabio Eboli
Hello, Bruce Using saturated transistors as switches in the current source and elsewhere isn't conducive to fast switching. The traditional arrangement using current mode switches is much faster and more predictable. This is something I'd like to understand better. I'm referring to this schem

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-22 Thread Alan Melia
ECL, MECL, or PECL logic family schematics. Alan G3NYK - Original Message - From: "Fabio Eboli" To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 11:00 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some m

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-22 Thread Tom Miller
Google "baker clamp" for more on this. Tom - Original Message - From: "Alan Melia" To: "Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement" Sent: Saturday, December 22, 2012 6:28 PM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-22 Thread Bob Camp
Hi One very simple question - how good would it do if you just did it all with logic gates? Tri-state buffers and things like that…. Now that you are up to a 100 to 200 ns long pulse, a lot of the fiddly stuff about "can't get a 2 ns pulse through it" goes away. I'm not suggesting you tear up

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-23 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Fabio Eboli wrote: Hello, Bruce Using saturated transistors as switches in the current source and elsewhere isn't conducive to fast switching. The traditional arrangement using current mode switches is much faster and more predictable. This is something I'd like to understand better. I'm ref

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-23 Thread Fabio Eboli
Il 2012-12-23 11:36 Bruce Griffiths ha scritto: The simulation indicates that the TAC capacitor charging current is far from constant whilst charging. This is due to the use of saturated switches rather than current steering switches. The capacitor charging current is poorly controlled. So in thi

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-23 Thread Fabio Eboli
Il 2012-12-23 07:42 Bruce Griffiths ha scritto: The classic TAC using current mode switching is similar to the attached circuit schematic. Bruce I tried to replicate the circuit you attached, the pic was low resolution so I tried to figure the values. This is the circuit asc text http://pasteb

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-24 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Fabio Eboli wrote: Il 2012-12-23 07:42 Bruce Griffiths ha scritto: The classic TAC using current mode switching is similar to the attached circuit schematic. Bruce I tried to replicate the circuit you attached, the pic was low resolution so I tried to figure the values. This is the circuit as

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-24 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Fabio Eboli wrote: Il 2012-12-23 11:36 Bruce Griffiths ha scritto: The simulation indicates that the TAC capacitor charging current is far from constant whilst charging. This is due to the use of saturated switches rather than current steering switches. The capacitor charging current is poorly c

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-25 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Fabio The simplest (lowest part count and least number of power supplies) consists of a tristate buffer driving an RC circuit. The PPS signal is connected directly to the buffer input whilst the output of the PPS synchroniser (at least 2 stages to minimise the probability of metastabilty at th

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-26 Thread Fabio Eboli
Hello, hope you all had a happy Christmas. Back to the topic. Bob Camp asked: Hi One very simple question - how good would it do if you just did it all with logic gates? Tri-state buffers and things like that…. Now that you are up to a 100 to 200 ns long pulse, a lot of the fiddly stuff about

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-26 Thread Bob Camp
Hi You should check out the leakage of a typical tristate buffer. It's specified at a level that makes it easy to test. Most of the parts you find have very low leakage. Varicap diodes are similar in that respect, the leakage of real parts is much lower than the 1 ua you see on the old specs.

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2012-12-26 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Fabio Eboli wrote: Hello, hope you all had a happy Christmas. Back to the topic. Bob Camp asked: Hi One very simple question - how good would it do if you just did it all with logic gates? Tri-state buffers and things like that…. Now that you are up to a 100 to 200 ns long pulse, a lot of the

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2013-01-03 Thread Attila Kinali
On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 22:45:40 +0100 Fabio Eboli wrote: > Il 2012-12-23 07:42 Bruce Griffiths ha scritto: > > > The classic TAC using current mode switching is similar to the > > attached circuit schematic. > > http://pastebin.com/EkgqmgfE I have a couple of small questions about this circuit.

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2013-01-03 Thread Attila Kinali
On Thu, 3 Jan 2013 21:28:17 +0100 Attila Kinali wrote: > What is the reason behind the emitter followers Q1 and Q9? > Respecitvely, why shouldnt R3/R4, R7/R8 be connected directly to V+/V-? Scratch that question. Looking at the schematics again, it became obvious. Attila

Re: [time-nuts] Questions about TAC frontend, and some measurements

2013-01-04 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Attila Kinali wrote: On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 22:45:40 +0100 Fabio Eboli wrote: Il 2012-12-23 07:42 Bruce Griffiths ha scritto: The classic TAC using current mode switching is similar to the attached circuit schematic. http://pastebin.com/EkgqmgfE I have a couple of smal