Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

On 1/5/2024 11:32 AM, Frank W3LPL wrote: Unless you live on a salt march (there aren't many in Ohio , horizontally polarized antennas are significantly more efficient than verticals on every band except 160 meters, even if 80 meter horizontally polarized antennas ore only 70 feet high and 40

Re: Topband: elevated radials, etc

I suppose I'm 'Mr. Bad Example' of how to not think too much about my 160m inverted L. Verily I have spent way more time trying to figure out how I was going to get the wire as high as I could, and the horizontal portion as short as possible (HINT: at my age, climbing gaffs bad, crossbow good).

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

uot; Sent: Friday, January 5, 2024 11:12:14 AM Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Moved onto 3 rural acres about 14 yrs ago. Only had one (15') tree on the whole property, AND I had sold my yagis and tower about five years earlier. So I went with monoband GPs on 40-30-20-17-10. All were 9-10 ft ab

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

Moved onto 3 rural acres about 14 yrs ago. Only had one (15') tree on the whole property, AND I had sold my yagis and tower about five years earlier. So I went with monoband GPs on 40-30-20-17-10. All were 9-10 ft above ground and used 4 elevated radials. I borrowed a used 4BTV, set it up with

Topband: Elevated radials

_ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: elevated radials question

Thanks to all of you who replied to me with a lot of information to digest. I believe I will improve my existing on-ground radial system as a starting point, see if I can switch over to a T-top vertical between two trees instead of my current inverted J over the top of one tree. And, of course,

Re: Topband: elevated radials question

radial field down, and maintain a neat ground surface and family harmony. And definitely work on arranging a receive antenna. See you on Top! 73, Luke VK3HJ Sent from Mail for Windows From: Greg Davis Sent: Tuesday, 26 October 2021 3:59 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: elevated

Re: Topband: elevated radials question

On 10/25/2021 9:17 AM, Grant Saviers wrote: Don't connect elevated radials to on/in ground radials. There is a huge ground loss for 4ft high radials on 160m.  7ft is far better and 10 ft is pretty good. When I first installed radials this low, there was, indeed, high ground loss. N6BT, an

Re: Topband: elevated radials question

Grant and Joel, Thanks for the feedback. I have a stockpile of wire that's not doing me any good sitting in my garage, so it sounds to me like probably the best thing is to add some more on-ground radials (to some extent) and focus on improving my RX since I do not yet have a dedicated RX

Re: Topband: elevated radials question

Don't connect elevated radials to on/in ground radials. There is a huge ground loss for 4ft high radials on 160m. 7ft is far better and 10 ft is pretty good. There are "W" shaped radial feeds with the base near to the ground but IMO it is better to elevate the feedpoint to radial height and

Topband: elevated radials question

Hello Topbanders, I just got my 160m antenna back up after being off the band for a while, just in time for the pre-Stew this past weekend. It is an inverted "J" with I'd estimate 90ish feet more-or-less vertical over the tallest tree in my back yard. I've got a decent number of on-ground radials

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help?

ave elevated radials and if you > take even one to the ground you might as well move all to the > ground..??Fred KB4QZH > Original message From: donov...@erols.com Date: > 12/29/20 12:30 PM (GMT-05:00) To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: > Topband: Elevated Radi

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help?

On 12/29/2020 11:37 AM, fmoeves wrote: I was under the impression that If you have elevated radials and if you take even one to the ground you might as well move all to the ground..??Fred KB4QZH Yes. Losses in elevated radials rise with poorly balanced currents. It's worth spending time

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help?

: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help? Hi Clive, A second resonant radial is a good idea, but not because it might cancel horizontally polarized radiation. Why? Because -- just like a Beverage -- a horizontal wire close to the ground has no significant horizontally polarized

Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help?

Yes I can concur that you were a pretty solid signal here in Europe during the Stew Perry Contest Dan ! 73 Roger G3YRO _ Searchable Archives: http://www.contesting.com/_topband - Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help?

On 12/29/2020 5:58 AM, d...@np2j.com wrote: I am wondering if I should lay radials on the ground, particulary near the feedpoint's? Any advice?? In addition to what Frank has written, I suggest that you study this link for ideas. http://k9yc.com/160MPacificon.pdf FWIW, I heard you pretty

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help?

polarized radiation is lost to ground losses. 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: cl...@gm3poi.com To: donov...@erols.com, topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 5:25:05 PM Subject: RE: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help? Frank what

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help?

of the antenna for at least a few miles in the most important directions. But you've already done that. Bravo! Good luck! 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Dan Flaig NP2J" To: donov...@erols.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 4:41:40 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Elevat

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help?

in the most important directions. But you've already done that. Bravo! Good luck! 73 Frank W3LPL - Original Message - From: "Dan Flaig NP2J" To: donov...@erols.com Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2020 4:41:40 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on g

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help?

Subject: Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help? Hello fellow Topbanders! Had lots of fun in the Stew, thanks for the contacts everyone! Looking forward to the CQ160 and as always trying to find a way to improve antenna performance so looking for advice I am currently using

Topband: Elevated Radials - will radials on ground help?

Hello fellow Topbanders! Had lots of fun in the Stew, thanks for the contacts everyone! Looking forward to the CQ160 and as always trying to find a way to improve antenna performance so looking for advice I am currently using a pair of Inverted L's each having a single elevated radial.

Re: Topband: elevated radials

the individual verticals degrades the directive pattern that we are trying to achieve. 73, John W1FV -Original Message- From: Grant Saviers [mailto:gran...@pacbell.net] Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 11:38 AM To: jkaufm...@alum.mit.edu; Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: elevated

Re: Topband: elevated radials

Message- From: Grant Saviers [mailto:gran...@pacbell.net] Sent: Monday, October 22, 2018 11:38 AM To: jkaufm...@alum.mit.edu; Topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: elevated radials I have a 160m T with 8 elevated 125' radials and the currents are worst case 3:1 unequal for various reasons

Re: Topband: elevated radials

I have a 160m T with 8 elevated 125' radials and the currents are worst case 3:1 unequal for various reasons (nearby steel building & towers).  I've modeled this with EZNEC Pro4 by placing the actual radial currents as sources in each radial.  Obviously the sum of those currents must equal the

Re: Topband: elevated radials

Hi Pete, *Ideally*, the current on each radial should be equal. In the searchable archives at http://www.contesting.com/_topband this has been discussed at length, and in a number of threads. There are also instructions there for making a very simple RF current meter with only two or three

Re: Topband: elevated radials

We just went through the exercise of tuning up the elevated radials on the KC1XX 160m vertical array in advance of the upcoming CQWW DX Contests. The first thing is to make each of the radials look as electrically identical as possible. We assume the length of the vertical element is fixed and

Re: Topband: elevated radials

I took a page out of ON4UN's book for four elevated radials. In the 4th edition of his "Low-Band DXing," page 9-25, figure 9-23, I used the left diagram. After I resonated the system, my best SWR was about 2.5 and I fixed that by adding a "hair pin" match. The length of my radials was 81' and

Re: Topband: elevated radials

I do recall reading old books that advised elevated radials should be resonated slightly lower in frequency than the main element. Anyone else recall such? 73, Roy K6XK "I am contemplating 4 elevated radials for a 160-meter inverted L. Am I correct to think that I need to resonate

Re: Topband: elevated radials

That worked for me. Chuck W5PR On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 8:45 PM N4ZR wrote: > I am contemplating 4 elevated radials for a 160-meter inverted L. Am I > correct to think that I need to resonate each pair of radials in their > final location as if they were a very low dipole? > > -- > > 73, Pete

Topband: elevated radials

I am contemplating 4 elevated radials for a 160-meter inverted L.  Am I correct to think that I need to resonate each pair of radials in their final location as if they were a very low dipole? -- 73, Pete N4ZR Check out the Reverse Beacon Network at , now spotting

Re: Topband: elevated radials

around here in the winter I went to 32 to have a few extra. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Mike Waters mikew...@gmail.com To: topband topband@contesting.com Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:42 AM Subject: Re: Topband: elevated radials Hello Jim, Thank you for this. I don't

Re: Topband: elevated radials

Hello Jim, Thank you for this. I don't doubt for a second that my elevated 1/4 wave radial currents may be unequal. I should throw together an RF current meter and check them sometime, and add more radials while I'm at it. After the ticks and chiggers here die, though. :-) I don't have any

Re: Topband: elevated radials

Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:42 AM Subject: Re: Topband: elevated radials Hello Jim, Thank you for this. I don't doubt for a second that my elevated 1/4 wave radial currents may be unequal. I should throw together an RF current meter _ Topband Reflector

Re: Topband: elevated radials

- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Mike Waters Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 11:42 AM To: topband Subject: Re: Topband: elevated radials Hello Jim, Thank you for this. I don't doubt for a second that my elevated 1/4 wave radial currents may be unequal. I

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials EPILOGUE

...@hawaii.rr.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 3:42 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials EPILOGUE There is some good stuff in ON4UN Low Band Book - Chapter 9-10 on Elevated Radials. He suggests that an elevated system would be even better above ground versus

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials - Inverted L, Near Fld above/below ground

One poster on this thread mentioned a desire to compare an inverted L with elevated radials against a quarter-wave vertical with elevated radials. Another poster mentioned looking at the near field below the surface. I put together a .weq format model for use with the AutoEZ program, with all

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

call it a radial system. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Rick Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 8:42 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials One of the problems with discussing this topic is that nearly all studies

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

I've noted your postings re elevated radials to replace deteriorated buried radial fields under broadcast towers. I'm familiar with the work and the results. This work, of course was done by professional broadcast engineers with significant instrumentation at their disposal. Of course, they

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

RE: Capability of NEC for Accurate Modeling of Groundwave Fields Close to a Monopole using Elevated Radials As an example... The FCC groundwave propagation chart for 1490 kHz (Graph 18-A) shows that the field at 1 km over 1 mS/m earth is 51% of the inverse distance field. The inverse

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

: Topband: Elevated Radials I've noted your postings re elevated radials to replace deteriorated buried radial fields under broadcast towers. I'm familiar with the work and the results. This work, of course was done by professional broadcast engineers with significant instrumentation

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

is some improvement over a poor on ground radial attempt; I wont call it a radial system. Carl KM1H - Original Message - From: Rick Karlquist rich...@karlquist.com To: topband@contesting.com Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 8:42 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials One

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials EPILOGUE

Now in the most recent 22nd Edition of the ARRL Antenna Book... 3-14 - It goes on to say that a few elevated radials should perform as well as a large number of ground radials And that the signal will improve quickly with just a little elevation... Interesting graph - Figure 3.27 - you

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials EPILOGUE

I'd like to read whatever information (real results) you guys have on this. My email is my call sign with @hawaii.rr.com Thank you Milt for your info. Nice setup!If I understood it correctly - the buried and elevated were comparable. I've read most of the well known books on this

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

Pretty picture for perfect ground, but no dice in real life. The very same NEC 4.2 with raised quarter wave radials over routine real life ground made of dirt will show field intensities in the ground. Since there is a field in the ground, and the ground is conductive with a resistance there

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

Guy Olinger posted: ...The very same NEC 4.2 with raised quarter wave radials over routine real life ground made of dirt will show field intensities in the ground. (etc etc) ___ Sorry, but this is a misunderstanding/misuse of NEC for this situation. The r-f currents flowing in

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

One of the problems with discussing this topic is that nearly all studies of radials deal with 1/4 wave verticals. Most ham stations including mine don't have the luxury of a height of 130 feet. There are many cases where some novel grounding scheme is touted as just as good as 120 radials and

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials EPILOGUE

1) If you have the space and work hours and money isn't an issue - go with 120 1/4 wave buried radials. That is a myth that stems from the FCC not requiring a ground system proof of performance when more than ~110 radials are used, and 120 radials is pretty much a waste of time for hams. At

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

inti them -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Richard Fry Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2013 6:45 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Guy Olinger posted: ...The very same NEC 4.2 with raised quarter wave radials

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials EPILOGUE

I can't believe that no one has put this really important question to bed already. Since the results vary with installation and soil, and since no one considers it depends a good answer, the debate will never end. If I had the land and an existing vertical with a large buried radial system

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials EPILOGUE

] On Behalf Of Buck wh7dx Sent: Sunday, March 03, 2013 12:39 PM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials EPILOGUE I can't believe that no one has put this really important question to bed already. If I had the land and an existing vertical with a large buried radial system

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

Examiner --- -Original Message- From: Topband [mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Eddy Swynar Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 7:48 AM To: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Good Day Again All, Well, I've done my best to summarize all

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

Tom, Great stuff! Could you elaborate on a couple of points - 1. I would think that a system with elevated radials that slope upward towards the far ends (e.g for 160m 10' at feedpoint and 30' at far ends) should have less loss as the field is less near earth where the voltage is high in the

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials EPILOGUE

Good Day All, Well, after sifting through all of the responses to my original posting, and reviewing the different sites recommended by specific denizens of Topband, I've come to the conclusion that I will have to stick to my current design of 24 radials, each 1/8-wave long, per L... I

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials EPILOGUE

I can't believe that no one has put this really important question to bed already. If I had the land and an existing vertical with a large buried radial system and another tower available.. I would try it out for the sake of Ham Radio :-)) Put up another 160M vertical.. contact a few friends

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

(C) How many elevated radials are just enough...? Depends on how many dB you want to throw away. If you can, do 12 to 16. 32 is the kill-the-loss, never-look-back number. The link below leads to a detailed post on this topic by William Culpepper, a broadcast consulting

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

Good Day All, Wow...! I received well over TWENTY responses from the Topband crowd in the matter of elevated radials vs. those simply laid atop the ground---many thanks to all for sharing your insight personal experiences with me. For benefit of the curious who asked, as well as for my own

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

Forgive me, please, if I'm re-hashing a bit of the ...same-old, same-old here, but I am really curious as to any real world experiences that might be out there in the matter of elevated radials, vs. those that are simply laid atop the ground... (A) Is it true that a couple of elevated

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

@contesting.com Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 9:53 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Elevated radials avoid a collection of lossy mistakes that one finds in less than optimal buried/on ground radials. If a full size radial system is done properly, dense, uniform all around, you

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

Good Day Again All, Well, I've done my best to summarize all the respondents' comments in the matter of elevated vs. ground-mounted radials---and I'll try now to summarize these in a single-page format for benefit of all to see... The results are certainly interesting, and some are as

Topband: Elevated Radials

Hi Guys, Forgive me, please, if I'm re-hashing a bit of the ...same-old, same-old here, but I am really curious as to any real world experiences that might be out there in the matter of elevated radials, vs. those that are simply laid atop the ground... My arthritic knees here are making the

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

Eddy, If you haven't already, you might want to take a look at Rudy Severns' site (http://www.antennasbyn6lf.com/). A bit of reading will answer some or most of your questions. It's been a few years since I studied his material--the 160m inverted-L I build then embodied many of his findings and

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

Eddy, I've been using a 85-foot high T-Top vertical with four elevated radials (about 19 feet high) sloped up from the ground level feed point, since the fall of 1994. This antenna is supported by a wood pole for the radiator and with a pair of steel pipes for each of the radials;

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

I'll try to keep this concise. My assumption in this is that you want to do as well as possible with the least loss possible. If instead, you are past dealing with lots of mechanics and that's why you even dare to mention two elevated radials, but you don't want to pick up a lot of loss, I

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

/jeff/ac0c www.ac0c.com alpha-charlie-zero-charlie -Original Message- From: Brad Rehm Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 11:38 AM To: Eddy Swynar Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Eddy, If you haven't already, you might want to take a look at Rudy Severns' site

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

Hi Guys, Forgive me, please, if I'm re-hashing a bit of the ...same-old, same-old here, but I am really curious as to any real world experiences that might be out there in the matter of elevated radials, vs. those that are simply laid atop the ground... My arthritic knees here are making

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials

Elevated radials avoid a collection of lossy mistakes that one finds in less than optimal buried/on ground radials. If a full size radial system is done properly, dense, uniform all around, you will not be able to tell the difference. If there were huge efficiency issues with buried radials

Topband: elevated radials dilemma

My top loaded T top band vertical is up. 85' vertical, 43' each side T and 3 elevated 123' radials at 10 to 12'. Resonance Z is currently 36 ohms and 90KHz 2:1 swr BW.EZNEC+ shows a resonance Z of 25 ohms with 4 elevated radials, so I presume the delta is ground loss. The antenna is

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Questions

, December 13, 2012 8:51 PM To: Grant Saviers; Dennis W0JX Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Questions The only place Ive found tuned elevated radials being discussed so much is on ham forums. A bit over 20 years ago I installed a slanted wire 1/4 wave vertical for 160

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Questions

Grant, you should consider putting in an additional 23 radials and put the radial system on or in the ground. This will eliminate any possible detuning by the big metal building and interaction with the RX 4 square. You said that your vertical T will go up to 85 feet. However, by elevating the

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Questions

Thanks for the comments and pointers. The land around the antenna is mixed grass and forested islands so on the ground radials would be partially buried and partially on the surface. Digging through the trees and clearing the brush is not something I want to do. Also, based on prior

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Questions

Not to hijack the thread, but anyone have a general idea how much improvement one would get by going from 8 to 12 gull wing resonant elevated radials on a 60 foot base loaded vertical? 73, Bob AA6VB N7LF's work also shows that more elevated radials are better than fewer. Since the losses

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Questions

[mailto:topband-boun...@contesting.com] On Behalf Of Grant Saviers Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 5:28 PM To: Dennis W0JX Cc: topband@contesting.com Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Questions Thanks for the comments and pointers. The land around the antenna is mixed grass and forested islands so

Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Questions

- Original Message - From: Grant Saviers gran...@pacbell.net To: Dennis W0JX w...@yahoo.com Cc: topband@contesting.com Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2012 5:27 PM Subject: Re: Topband: Elevated Radials Questions Thanks for the comments and pointers. The land around the antenna is mixed grass