The European Commission is a known slave of the establishment.
"European Commission enabling blockade of WikiLeaks by U.S. hard-right
Lieberman/King, contrary to European Parliament’s wishes" 27 November 2012
https://wikileaks.org/European-Commission-enabling.html
They will use this as an
This is a major clamp down on Freedom of expression and joins the
Directive on Terrorism: The European Parliament against our freedoms
https://www.laquadrature.net/en/terrorisme-directive-european-parliament-against-liberties
>"This law is yet another step further into shaping public opinion &
controlling dissent"
[...]
>"I fear that this law will mostly target activist that fight for justice or
try and raise public awareness
(many a times public resistance is towards these very same corporate
interests)"
A
I want to remark something from your first link
>"despite a lengthy negotiation between companies and the Commission, “hate
speech” remains vaguely-defined. Companies have been tasked with taking the
lead on determining what constitutes hate speech, with potentially disastrous
results."
Hello Good Morning Trisquelians ;-)
I watched this thread with my coffe & croissants yesterday morning and well
back to it this morning..;-)
so i'll just do a " Revue de presse"
EFF on the subjet 18hrs ago
technically crap isn't a swear. now if i said damn, that would be a swear
and the list goes on and on...
but really, this thread was bound to cause problems given the video's author,
lets just drop it kay?
So, just to clarify, are you a moderator? I can't tell who the moderators are
(if there even are any), and how people become one.
Since quite a few people here are advocating the removal of this thread to
the troll hole (or maybe even complete deletion), would it not be reasonable
to say
I was saying it in jest but even if they did not bother to read them it is
pretty standard practice among internet communities not to tolerate
discriminatory language, not to make off-topic discussions etc., so obviously
they should have assumed that those rules apply.
There are people who vote -1 too, and if there is a +1 and a -1 that then
becomes 0 and there is no record that somebody voted. My earlier call for a
vote had this in mind. If I received a +7 despite the fact that there are
those voting -1, then that was an adequate basis for my working to
-1
the reply button is for comments.
The +1 and -1 is for voting.
Weren't you so careful to follow the guidelines, rules, etc?
Would you mind on point out what's so wrong with the original post?
The only reason this thread got derailed was because root_vegetable point out
who was the author of the video I posted in a low attempt to disrupt the
thread by dragin it into off-topic chitchat. But that's not what the
I see what you mean. But I don't see how hate speech has even a remote chance
to be correct, anywhere, at any time.
Let me rephrase that: I don't see how "attacks on a person or group on the
basis of attributes such as gender, ethnic origin, religion, race,
disability, or sexual
+1
Well, I suppose to understand Marxism you should read the Communist
Manifesto. When you read it, don't forget that it was written in the 19th
century (indeed, Marx and Engels thought it needed updating, especially notes
on literature at the time). It is quite interesting to read, and is
What EU law? I still don't see any source, therefore I can hardly judge
whether it's right or wrong.
Since I'm blinded by your brilliance (at avoiding to present sources), please
help me find actual proof of what you're saying about that EU bill. Because I
still don't see a damn source.
Since you want to bring RMS in:
When people talk about punishing "hate speech", they advocate censorship
just do it anyways, for the sake of ruben and the community.
don't let this flame war continue, please?
Yet they are there nonetheless. Don't try to compare this to the book-length
draconian EULAs that companies like amazon have. Nobody reads those. This
is a handful of sentences in large, bold, font, that are written in clear and
simple language. You read them but you don't remember--or
I can see where you are coming from but I think it is reasonable for websites
to have community rules that ban inciting violence against minorities for
instance and advocation of discrimination. I have looked at this EU ruling
and most of it seems quite reasonable.
C'est la vie...
that would be because most people expect lawyer speak guidelines...
If I was a mod, I would have closed this thread a while ago, then again
though, I am not and thank goodness.
I have made similar errors in the past.
still though, this isn't good for our community so, I think we should stop
talking about this. okay?
Nobody reads the terms and conditions no matter how short they are... You
live under a rock or something?
well from what I remember he was represented by animal farm as being snowball
the guy who wanted a good leadership.
and stalin was of course represented by Napoleon.
my bad though I haven't read up on history for a while, I may have gotten
things very much confused.
I was under the
lol You didn't agree to the guideline?
Of course there are and should be limitations on free speech-- hate speech
isn't one of them, however.
We have free speech in principal, but this isn't what this thread ended up
being about. It became about many other unrelated things. Personally I think
the EU ruling could prove impractical but... que sera, sera.
That's doesn't change the fact that this EU law (as many others) is just
plain wrong.
Well that's just a matter of opinion, and we'll just have to agree or
disagree.
The free software movement (free in bold because you seem to be legally
blind) cares about freedom of computing, and freedom in general too. Freedom
of speech is something rms (for instance) has a long history of advocacy.
Also, when SOPA and PIPA came people had fear that it could become an
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech
See the limitations part.
Also I find interesting that the right to privacy (which I value a whole lot)
is a restriction of free speech. Depending on the context (as nearly always),
I'm perfectly fine with that.
Allowing unrestricted free
"The forum / mailing lists exist to foster the development and use of
Trisquel."
How do you reconcile the existence of this thread given that you promised to
abide by the above guideline?
Don't tell me, "well, son, you haven't been around enough to know that those
guidelines don't mean a
You mean those things about copyright infringement and intellectual property?
By definition, they fit free software way more than that "imaginary" EU bill.
But let's say it does belong in the main forum for a second, because I'd like
you to answer the other part of my statement.
I say
That's not how it works, you don't move things around by votes. Mods move
things when they decided that some topic is off-topic. I myself criticized
some cat thread some crazy troll made once, and it got moved to the troll
hole. People here (way older than you) will remember. And I remember
lol, I almost hate to see this thread go, since your posts are so
entertaining root_vegetable
I can work on getting this thread moved to the Troll Hole, but I would like
some consensus:
A choice of +1 means you agree that this thread should be moved to the Troll
Hole.
It looks like
"I agree [with you, let's stop this thread]"
"...Now let's back to the main topic [and not stop this thread!]."
Oh, I see. You agree with me about stopping the thread, and then immediately
try to restart it!!!
I'd actually be offended at your calling me a liar if you weren't so
Yea, I'm against laws that prohibit hate-speech or try to regulate it.
The EU's bill sounds terrible to me...
The sad thing is that these threads never get moved to the troll hole. I
think there are no moderators on these forums beyond people putting too many
'-1' votes on a comment, which is open to abuse and personal feuds arguably
more than a defined moderation system. I don't know who the
>"GO AWAY!!!"
>"I wasn't singling you out
Don't you love people who just lie straight out?
I don't know why you have it against me and only me. But I'm not about to
capitulate.
This EU rule is not much different than SOPA, PIPA and the other harmful
proposals that we condemn right here in
"So instead of calling me names you should show some respect."
You are receiving respect in proportion to your actions. Act like a troll,
get treated like a troll. You are continuing to provoke people with this
topic, in the wrong forum. So my comments were appropriate.
If you have been
Does SOPA and PIPA has neither to has anything with trisquel?
Because I remember very well that people here could talks abut that
endlessly.
Is this all you got about this law? Any source, something? Anyway, I second
this thread to at least be moved to the Troll hole. It has nothing to do with
Trisquel or free software.
If you are having trouble create a new forum topic and elaborate further. At
least it would be related to free software, unlike this topic.
I've been here for way more time than you, I've probably helped more the
cause of free software in all these years more than you.
So instead of calling me names you should show some respect.
hate speech is defined by the EU as including ‘incitement to hatred’,
which is both circular and so vague as to mean almost anything.
What this means is lawyers can use this loophole to give their own
interpretation on whats hate speech and use it on their advantage to ban
almost anything.
The second video is featured on the so-called "Prager University". It is
about as reputable an 'educational institution' as Trump University, a
pathetic commercial entity offering "business education", which is known to
bully people into blowing all their money on worthless courses in real
"Now let's back to the main topic."
You are not listening troll. Maybe louder will help??
GO AWAY!!!
I agree.
root_vegetable and loldier has drag me and other in this thread way too
off-topic. Now let's back to the main topic. Which is EU with a new law that
could and can be used to control public opinion directly in the EU and
outside too indirectly.
Last I checked, there are hundreds of people who are viewing this site at any
point in time. I wouldn't blame any of them for rejecting this community for
its inability to control itself from having these polarizing discussions
about politics and hate speech and the like.
For those whose
Serving as an elector does not automatically translate as being a member of
the same party or holding all the same views as that party. Anyone wishing to
run for office needs electors to be eligible. When Pulley ran in 1980,
Sanders was actually an independent having left the (socialist)
I think you are banking that I didn't watch your video. I wish I didn't
because it is a load of utter crap, but there we have it. I will tell you why
it qualifies as hate speech.
He starts with "The Zionist media". This is to feed into his racist
narratives of his other videos, that there is
Indeed. The Kochs and Goldman Sachs are not interested in your liberty,
in the meaning the word carried before it was hijacked in the insane
dash to weaponize economics. Conservative libertarians took a decent
ideology (although ideologies are, after critical analysis, or, even
more
https://xkcd.com/1049/
>Have you evidence to support your statement that Sanders is a communist?
Sanders served as an elector for the 1980 Socialist Workers Part nominee
Adrew Pulley
And don't let the name fool you. They are openly communist and Marxist.
Ugh... Don't defend Lenin, ever. There's little that was good about him, for
example he opposed free speech, presided over political violence, and
destroyed any force that dared oppose him, like the Ukranian Free Territory
and the Kronstadt rebellion. He was awful in the end. Not as awful as
Good point:
Respect among community members
Discrimination -- Do not discriminate against people based on age,
gender, sex, sexual orientation, disability, religion, ideology, ideas,
social class, nationality, race, intelligence, or any analogous grounds.
Profanity -- Do not curse or
Yeah, Costa Rica to be more specific.
¡vivan siempre el trabajo y la paz!
Have you even watch the video? In the video you see a video that got censured
not because it was hate speech, but simply because interest.
"UN Envoy Cries for Gaza Children"
Also you can see more people that got silenced simply because interests in
this video
Do you live in America? If so, why do you reserve such bad words for the EU,
even though it doesn't affect you?
And if you live in Europe, why question whether user Loldier lives in
America?
I would +10 if i could.
Why are you debating with me? I clearly stated what the European Union is
doing is silly... they are censoring themselves! xD
Central America*
Have you evidence to support your statement that Sanders is a communist? He
describes his politcial views as democratic socialism which is not the same
as communism. You may want to look up the difference. Plus nobody calls Duke
a communist either as you say. His views are actually more
Let's look at this from a different angle:
Just because a private property is located on and accessible from a public
road, doesn't mean you can enter that property. If you enter that property,
that does not mean that you are free to do as you please. It is still private
property.
For
Libertarianism got hijacked by the tight long ago. They misinterpret freedom
from oppression as freedom from regulations. It's pretty creepy. There are no
rightwing anarchists, as capitalism only exists with the support of the
state. They just want to shrink the bits of government they don't
No it does have relevance. Unless you have been living under a rock for
centuries, it might be obvious that the views David Duke espouses very often
qualify as hate speech. He was a former Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan!
They fucking lynch black people and go around shooting and
What's worse or if any of those it's good at all it's not relevant to what I
said, you see. It's not about if Bernie or David Duke is good or bad, I'm not
interest in who's right or wrong. My business is with bias media that
attempts to control public opinion.
Because if they control
I'm not defending white supremacist, I stand for the free speech of every
one, whether he's European, Indian or a fellow countryman or countrywoman.
Me defending any supremacist is an idea excessing only in your mind full of
suppositions about me.
I'm not saying Trump is a Nazi per se. He only falls in the same pit as the
Weimar republic conservative parties did when they supported the rise of
Hitler hoping to gain power over him and ditch him when he was done. It won't
work.
Exactly, in fact. That same video could be banned in Europe even though
doesn't have a drop of hate against anyone. The same video shows cases where
pacific free speech got banned because some people had other interests.
It's just plain an simple truth that could be banned in Europe for
>"The nazism of today is alive and it has the face of GOP, Trump"
stopped reading at GOP and Trump being pro nazi. Unless you can prove that
you're not repeating the same some people says without any base then you're
just lying.
Also, question. Do you even live in America?
Then you shouldn't act against yout best interests defending extremists'
right to air time on any platform they choose to infiltrate. It's illogical.
So now you imply I'm a white supremacist?
I'll let you know that what you're doing it's no different from someone
thinking "if it's dumb must be black" You'll agree with me that, that kind of
prejudice is bad, right? Then why you don't hesitate to call me "white
supremacists" even though
I agree, but being a KKK is kinda worse...
Niemöller was talking about the Nazis. The nazism of today is alive and it
has the face of GOP, Trump and white suprecist groups fearmongering amidst
us.
I wouldn't mind if you elaborate on why it's "out of place" as you say.
I know that Niemöller quote through and through. Your quote is put place and
misdirected.
>"Because US Citizens have a taboo towards communism."
Exactly right. Because US Citizens have a taboo towards communism.
And what would happen if Bernie Sanders where to be called "former
communist"?
That would make him look bad in the US. A lot of people wouldn't vote for
him. Bernie
Isn't it obvious? Being a socialist and being a white suprematist dung basket
are hardly comparable in equality of admiration.
There's no way to even know if you are a US Citizen. No one is implying you
promote Trump... I agree about not banning certain videos when in Europe they
think that's hateful speech, when the general global consensus it might not
be...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vVohGWhMWs
Now you're implying I'm a Trump supporter even though I haven't mention a
word of him.
Why no one call Bernie "former communist" while every-time David Duke is
bring to discussion he's called "former Ku Klux Klan member"?
either answer that or stop making me lose my time in worthless
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/les-leopold/if-bernie-wins-california_b_10051886.html
>"These warmongers have exactly the same freedoms as they had before"
>"They can put up a platform[...]"
They can put a platform and what? Wait until they see how even that got
banned because of some filter?
Can't you see the danger of this new EU law? Can't you see how this new EU
rule
I said "they seemed"
Bernie is a snowball in hell. He has no chance to be lected. Why are wasting
bullets on him? Is it because trumpists must have an opponent, imagined or
real?
Because Americans have a taboo towards communism. I never implied you said
Communism was bad. That was added up by me.
"While hate speech is everything counter to the current political
establishment believes." This doesn't answer my question, you decided to
issue something else by saying
It used to be good manners in another time... Now you are a beacon of hope
for the millions if you know how to throw cheap expletives and libel at your
adversaries.
>"Tell me the difference between Political Correctness and Hate Speech"
In practice political correctness is anything the current political
establishment believes or want you to believe. While hate speech is
everything counter to the current political establishment believes.
>"Being a
Yeah, but I didn't say they will, just an hypothetical scenario
Yeah, I agree... this is making Facebook be more unstable than it already
is...
They won't ban Free Software any time soon. They even seem to agree that it's
the safest thing to have running in any computer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wwRYyWn7BEo
Tell me the difference between Political Correctness and Hate Speech...
Being a communist is not a bad thing, it's just a Political Ideology. It's
not as if Bernie was Mao, or Stalin...
These war mongers have exactly the same freedoms as they had before. They can
put up a platform of their own for their rants, misogynism and xenophobia
induced hatred. As long as they don't cross the subtle threshold of targeting
a specific minority and calling for violence towards them,
Yeah, that's why I thought of that hypothetical scenario. Linux nor GNU
necessarily imply communism. Both could live in either a communist or a
capitalist system.
I didn't imply that free software is communism. But rather that some people
could believe that, and ban free software too with a
>Also, I am not a "communist", as you seem to be implying. Is it some scare
label you apy to people who disagree with you? It makes no sense.<
A ballmerism is appropriate here:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2000/07/31/ms_ballmer_linux_is_communism/
RMS has also said that he doesn't align with what he calls "right-wing
libertarian anarchists".
https://trisquel.info/en/forum/stallman-talk#comment-95157
Fuck David Duke, fuck the Klan, Fuck sanders and his socialdemocrat crap,
fuck hillary and trump.
Slava Stalin.
If anybody is interested, Richard Stallman already commented on this:
https://www.stallman.org/archives/2016-mar-jun.html
"1 June 2016 (Censorship of "hate speech")
Several "US" companies have signed a pledge to censor "hate speech", which is
a crime in many European countries.
This
Please do your best when trying to understand other people's views and post.
Don't make me lose my time by making me repeat my self. That's all I ask when
someone reply to my posts.
And when people just miss-read (some times on purpose) to make it seem like I
said something different that
SOPA and PIPA proposals don't belong here? Then how come people could talk
all day long about that here?
The reason why I condemn this EU decision is EXACTLY the same why the
Trisquel community condemned SOPA and PIPA.
> This is why people like you makes me sick
How can a harmless person on the internet make you sick? You have a big shock
in store for you in life. People often say things you object to. How you
react is important for how you behave towards others, and how they behave
towards you in turn.
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