Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare - use of video

2008-03-30 Thread Cate & Peter
Hi again > when we start to use also multimedia-content like small videos and > interactive documentation. :-) As an aside - I would discourage significant use of video without captions/subtitles - in the first place, it can be difficult to understand people's accents, in the second place they a

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-30 Thread Cate & Peter
Hi Daniel > > If we switch to pipeline or another TYPO3-solution we also switch to > dr_wiki, that's shure. > > The only reason until now: mediawiki has an edit-button for EVERY > section, dr_wiki (in the moment) just for the whole page. It's not a > real problem to change that. > [Cate wrote:]

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-19 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Dmitry, > I assumed that we should use TYPO3 as much as possible if and only if > there are tools for it in TYPO3 :) For example, we have wiki extensions > in TYPO3, so we *may* use it. But we do not have bug tracker ext in > TYPO3, so we use Mantis :) yes, and we have a very great WYSIW

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-19 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Christopher, > advantages such as maintainers for individual sections of > longer documents such as the TSref. I couldn't, for example, take on > the maintenance of the entire TSref or TS by Example, but I could > certainly commit to maintaining a cObject or two. Using BE logins and > worksp

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-19 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Hi! Daniel Bruessler wrote: > he he, you should read your own words about using TYPO3 for as much as > possible ;-) I assumed that we should use TYPO3 as much as possible if and only if there are tools for it in TYPO3 :) For example, we have wiki extensions in TYPO3, so we *may* use it. But we

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-19 Thread Christopher Torgalson
Hi, On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 12:00 PM, Dmitry Dulepov [typo3] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Daniel Bruessler wrote: > > I also think so, that's the reason because we compare EVERY solution in > > the moment. Hopefully we can use TYPO3 even for the whole > > documentation-lifecycle. Let's see ;-)

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-19 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Dmitry, he he, you should read your own words about using TYPO3 for as much as possible ;-) I now have hope even for WRITING documentation-manuals in TYPO3. You know I have compared now OpenOffice / Google Docs / O3Spaces Workplace. Now it's time for the pipeline-extension and other rend

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-19 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Daniel Bruessler wrote: > I also think so, that's the reason because we compare EVERY solution in > the moment. Hopefully we can use TYPO3 even for the whole > documentation-lifecycle. Let's see ;-) This is different. I am not sure if TYPO3 is truly suitable for creating documentation that can

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-19 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Hi! Georg Ringer wrote: > I don't have a problem with that because TYPO3 is not the best solution > for *everything* This is correct but to certain extent. > Mantis is better than developing an extension for it and the same thing > is the wiki: IMO the mediawiki is far better than the extensio

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-19 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Dmitry, sorry, I just was to lazy to switch from mediawiki to dr_wiki until now. If we switch to pipeline or another TYPO3-solution we also switch to dr_wiki, that's shure. The only reason until now: mediawiki has an edit-button for EVERY section, dr_wiki (in the moment) just for the who

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-19 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Georg, I also think so, that's the reason because we compare EVERY solution in the moment. Hopefully we can use TYPO3 even for the whole documentation-lifecycle. Let's see ;-) Cheers! Daniel > I don't have a problem with that because TYPO3 is not the best solution > for *everything* > M

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-19 Thread Georg Ringer
Vincent wrote: > Which brings up another concern along the same line. So far as I can > tell, the official typo3 wiki does not run on typo3 either. It > apparently runs on mediawiki. This brings up the same concern in my > evaluation. My understanding is that typo3 has a wiki extension.

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-19 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Vincent wrote: > Which brings up another concern along the same line. So far as I can > tell, the official typo3 wiki does not run on typo3 either. It > apparently runs on mediawiki. This brings up the same concern in my > evaluation. My understanding is that typo3 has a wiki extension.

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-19 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Andreas, if the pagebreaks are no longer a problem in pipeline then this is very good news. We can test it, when it's installed on Virgils Server. We HAVE to look at several solutions, because they exist for documentation and we have decide. Cheers! Daniel > Thanks vincent > > Very go

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-18 Thread Andreas Becker
Thanks vincent Very good post Especially also concerning the wiki. Get in contact with Dennis Royer (developer of dr_wiki) I am sure he has an idea how to integrate a TYPO3 WIKI. We really have very good developers in the community and we are using only part of all this power. Like super 16 Cylind

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-18 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Vincent, thank you for your thoughts. The videos: in the moment we (DocTeam) don't care for the videos, there's another team what cares about that. Maybe you should try it with Ubuntu-Linux Gutsy Gibbon. That's what I'm using, I have very seldom problems to watch something. The most of th

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-18 Thread Vincent
On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 09:38:49AM +0700, Andreas Becker wrote: > ... > No Training at all would be needed as all TYPO3 Extension Developers already > work with TYPO3 > No additional Software would be needed as TYPO3 already comes along with all > we would need > No Licence Costs as it is GNU ... O

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-18 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
virgil huston wrote: > On web space, I am willing to provide some. Would we need a separate domain > name for this? I am sure you get a subdomain in typo3.org zone. -- Dmitry Dulepov TYPO3 core team Web: http://typo3bloke.net/ Skype: callto:liels_bugs "Nothing is impossible. There are only limit

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-17 Thread Andreas Becker
Don't think so as it would be only temporarily until it is working. As soon as I can get in contact with Dennis I will ask him if he could getin contact with you Andi 2008/3/18, virgil huston <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > On web space, I am willing to provide some. Would we need a separate > domain >

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-17 Thread virgil huston
On web space, I am willing to provide some. Would we need a separate domain name for this? Virgil On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 11:18 PM, Andreas Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Virgil > > I will help where I can > I contacted already Dennis Krannich and Reinhard Fuehricht and can contact > also

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-17 Thread Andreas Becker
Hi Virgil I will help where I can I contacted already Dennis Krannich and Reinhard Fuehricht and can contact also others which we will need. Someone perhaps could make a List what we would need beside: a good RTE > tinyrte - outraxx a possibility to show code > sk_codebox - Steffen Kamper a possi

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-17 Thread virgil huston
Andi, This is an awesome outline you have made here. As a co-leader of the Doc Team, I am for it. So, for your questions: FIRST IMPORTANT QUESTION: Who is the responsible person / democratic group to make the decision? -If this is the Doc Team, it is Daniel Brüßler and myself. Please say if there

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-17 Thread Andreas Becker
Hi Ries I just finished a letter to Dennis and hope he will answer soon or even connect to this thread We have such good people in TYPO3 with lots of awesome Extensions IMHO we only would need a DECISION to go with TYPO3. - most important right now! and someone who contacts the Extension Developer

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-17 Thread ries van Twisk
Hey andi, if you can make this setup reliable... then I think it would be a awesome solution Ries On Mar 17, 2008, at 9:38 PM, Andreas Becker wrote: > Hi Virgil > > Actually most of it iis already available in TER and working stable in > production sites. > IMHO we only need to put everyth

[TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-17 Thread Andreas Becker
Hi Virgil Actually most of it iis already available in TER and working stable in production sites. IMHO we only need to put everything together on a "separate" documentation TYPO3 installation. Perhaps Dennis Krannich (Developer from pipeline) http://typo3.org/extensions/repository/view/pipeline_

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-17 Thread Andreas Becker
Hi all just came into my mind! The Bible is well known since it has been translated into many languages and also since the printingpress has been invented. TYPO3 could improve and spread its usability as THE CMS as soon as we will use a tool which will allow us to translate docs and to puiblish th

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-17 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Peter Kindström wrote: > Why not something like Joomla: > > * The Official Installation Manual for Typo3 > * The Official User Manual for Typo3 > * The Official Administrator Manual for Typo3 > * The Official Developer Manual for Typo3 > > ...for a start? > > And when they are finished, we c

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-17 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Dan Osipov wrote: > Also, will the web documentation be rendered from OO files? Just so that > everything is always up to date, no how the user wants to read the docs Yes, it is rendered from OO files. OO files are just XML in zip. Easy to transform to HTML with XSL. -- Dmitry Dulepov TYPO3 co

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-16 Thread Andreas Becker
Hi again (copy from invitation letter to the above mentioned for demonstartion of Google Docs - GoogleTools Power) The same Event including the Map. It should show our location here on the island. But is only working if I insert a proper address in "Where" what I haven't done at the previous invit

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-16 Thread Andreas Becker
Hi Daniel, Peter, Susanne, Virgil (as copied from the event-collaboration tool) This is only for demonatration purpose, I created a collaborting event today 4pm - 5pm GMT +7 which would mean 10am - 11am GMT+1 (i.e. German Time) I added also a Reminder Pop-up 10 minutes before the event and an ema

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-16 Thread Andreas Becker
Hi Daniel, Peter, Susanne, Virgil (copy pasted from my invitation mail send by the cooluri googledoc) Here is my example - not TYPO3 Standard conform - Cooluri Tutorial I added you as collaborators and you have so the chance to have a look behind the scene. As it is the LIVE Version please don't m

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-16 Thread Susanne Moog
Hello Daniel, Daniel Bruessler schrieb: > The OpenOffice export doesn't work, the exported .doc file has problems > with the comments - a little gray box is shown instead of the comment. hmm. Works very well for me. Just tested it with all your changes and I get a working OO-document within a

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-16 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Susanne, > Thank you for setting this test up. I was able to add something, so it looks > like multiple authors can work a document. +1 Thank you! > without having to go to the revisions tab. > Virgil I find the changes-list good. The problem I see: The export to OpenOffice seems not to

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-16 Thread Susanne Moog
Hi virgil, virgil huston schrieb: > [...] I would like to be able > to see at a glance what changes have been made, who has made changes, > edited, etc. without having to go to the revisions tab. this does not seem possible with Google docs, but in my opinion it would be really confusing to have

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-16 Thread virgil huston
Susanne, Thank you for setting this test up. I was able to add something, so it looks like multiple authors can work a document. I did not see a way to see where edits had been made (like the show markup feature) I would like to be able to see at a glance what changes have been made, who has made

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-16 Thread Susanne Moog
Hello Daniel, > Please do another test: Is it possible to add keywords? (I mean the > document properties like author, Extensionkey, there's also "keywords" / > "Schlüsselwörter"). well, not really. Google introduced folders for categorizing and sorting files instead of keywords. The author ge

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-16 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Susanne, thanks for testing it. All three problems are just little bugs. When opening the exported file in OpenOffice it can be "repaired". Please do another test: Is it possible to add keywords? (I mean the document properties like author, Extensionkey, there's also "keywords" / "Schlüs

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-16 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hi Virgil, yes, did it. Cheers! Daniel > Also, add administrator. > Virgil ___ TYPO3-english mailing list TYPO3-english@lists.netfielders.de http://lists.netfielders.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/typo3-english

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-16 Thread Susanne Moog
Peter Kindström schrieb: > > Concerning Google Docs: > Has anyone tested that is makes _really_ OO-compatible documents? > (Import an existing Typ3 OO document, export it and see what it looks > like in OO after that.) Tested that, too. If you take an already existing document and import it to

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-16 Thread Peter Kindström
Concerning Google Docs: Has anyone tested that is makes _really_ OO-compatible documents? (Import an existing Typ3 OO document, export it and see what it looks like in OO after that.) It would be a bad thing if we ended up with yet another documentation tool that we have to make conversions to

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread virgil huston
Daniel, Also, add administrator. Virgil On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 4:23 PM, Daniel Bruessler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hello Bernd, > > thank you, that are good candidates for keywords for manuals. I think we > add a filter for the documents-list. So everybody can list the manuals > that makes

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Susanne, I'm downloading the Debian installer, because I'm using Ubuntu 7.10 - Tomorrow or monday I'll install & test it. The Whitepaper PDF looks very promissing: http://www.o3spaces.com/Media/download/462/O3Spaces-leaflet-Workplace%202.2.1%20overview.pdf It allows to use LDAP, maybe we

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Susanne Moog
Hello again, > I put this into a table to compare the features. > http://wiki.typo3.org/index.php/DocTeam#HowTo_-_Alternative_ways just added some missing points. Could perhaps someone test that collaboration tool of openoffice (o3spaces.com)? I can't get it installed (guess it doesn't like 64b

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Bernd, thank you, that are good candidates for keywords for manuals. I think we add a filter for the documents-list. So everybody can list the manuals that makes sense for him/ her. > * the simple editor, who just inserts content > * the configurator, who needs to know all about TypoScrip

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Dan, all right. I added the broken-links-problem in the list. We need to add an automatic link-checker. http://wiki.typo3.org/index.php/DocTeam#Problems_of_TYPO3-Beginners_in_the_moment Cheers! Daniel > And again, since there is good versioning system built in to the wiki, > the editor

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Virgil, yes, it's really better when we find something better than the wiki. Question is now if Google Docs or Zoho allow teamwork and if it's possible to add keywords to the document. Cheers! Daniel > OK, this is a good discussion and we need to come up with a good way to > work. Person

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Andreas, that's a very big one ;-) Thank you! Needs some time to read&think about it. I just marked it in orange, yet. Cheers! Daniel > Hi Dan > > Discussion and Versioning and especially collaborating in differnt ways is > also possible with the mentioned solutions above + it is much e

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Dan, > > What books did you try as beginners-guide? > "Building Websites with TYPO3" by Michael > Peacock. It was a very basic introduction > > Would it help you if we had a matrix in TER what shows the grade you > > need for each manual? > Yes it would help, very much! These three ca

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Thank you Susanne, Andreas, Dmitry! I put this into a table to compare the features. http://wiki.typo3.org/index.php/DocTeam#HowTo_-_Alternative_ways Google Docs is the best candidate now. We just need to test if it's possible to add keywords and if it can be used for teamwork. Cheers! Daniel

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Dan Osipov
> What books did you try as beginners-guide? The first book I read was "Building Websites with TYPO3" by Michael Peacock. It was a very basic introduction. Then I read through the guides on the main documentation page (inside Typo3, modern template building, etc). Those confused the heck out o

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Andreas Becker
Hi Daniel Asking for the level where a documentation should start you simply should look to any school or university educational book. A dokumentation is nothing else then a specif book about a specific Extension or Core function. Didacticts - Learn How to Teach TYPO3 and Methods - Discover the w

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Dan, > I am going through the same thing you have Dmitry, and am extremely > frustrated, like many others. I think there should be a guide, that > explains things in order, and gets more complex as it goes, building up > in previous material. This will eliminate the problem of doing tutor

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Andreas Becker
Very good point Peter Just had a look to the Joomla stuff and even IMHO joomla sucks but the docs style are kind we need. Before people start using TYPO3 they would like to read at least a good introducation and even this isn't uptodate. If you will have a look to the asterisk dokumentation you ca

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Peter Kindström
Why not something like Joomla: * The Official Installation Manual for Typo3 * The Official User Manual for Typo3 * The Official Administrator Manual for Typo3 * The Official Developer Manual for Typo3 ...for a start? And when they are finished, we could start adding more specialised do

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-15 Thread Peter Kindström
Hi Tutorials are great, but they tend to be very difficult to keep updated. If you just change some text in the program/extension you have to update the tutorial, since tutorials often dont explain why or alternatives, they just tell you ONE way to make things happen. My point is that you can

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Dan Osipov
There is still some common knowledge they should also have. And then it can break into section for the three groups. They should be clearly labeled (ex: "editor guide", "administrator guide", "developer guide") In any case its better than what's currently available. Dan bernd wilke wrote: > on

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread bernd wilke
on Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:07:38 -0400, Dan Osipov wrote: > Agree. Is this what the Doc team should be doing? > > Also, I think there should be a single, up to date guide on Typo3 - a > Typo3 Bible, if you will. I realize it may become thousands of pages in > length, and a nightmare to maintain, but

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Dan Osipov
+1 for PDF. Also, will the web documentation be rendered from OO files? Just so that everything is always up to date, no how the user wants to read the docs Dan Dmitry Dulepov [typo3] wrote: > virgil huston wrote: >> OK, this is a good discussion and we need to come up with a good way to >> wor

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Dan Osipov
Agree. Is this what the Doc team should be doing? Also, I think there should be a single, up to date guide on Typo3 - a Typo3 Bible, if you will. I realize it may become thousands of pages in length, and a nightmare to maintain, but I think its critically important for newbees to gain an unders

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Dan Osipov
I am going through the same thing you have Dmitry, and am extremely frustrated, like many others. I think there should be a guide, that explains things in order, and gets more complex as it goes, building up in previous material. This will eliminate the problem of doing tutorials without really

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
virgil huston wrote: > OK, this is a good discussion and we need to come up with a good way to > work. Personally, I do not like the wiki to actually work on docs, but only > to manage the docs. With the wiki, when things are edited, etc., afterwards > someone still has to put them into OOffice, fo

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread virgil huston
OK, this is a good discussion and we need to come up with a good way to work. Personally, I do not like the wiki to actually work on docs, but only to manage the docs. With the wiki, when things are edited, etc., afterwards someone still has to put them into OOffice, format them, etc. This seems li

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Hi! Peter Kindström wrote: > Look what other CMS:es has got, for example I found this 10 seconds > after visiting http://help.joomla.org/ > > --- > Official Documentation > * The Official Joomla! 1.5 Help Screens > * The Official Installation Manual for Joomla! 1.5 > * The Official Us

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Hi! Peter Kindström wrote: > Well, _I_ dont think it matters if you use OO. The down side is that it > may be more difficult to cooperate. But then we have Google Docs? > > On the other hand you usually have to do the work yourself. ;-) And then > it would not be a problem at all working with O

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Hi! Dan Osipov wrote: > My problem with that is that the developer documenting his work knows > too much about his development, and makes assumptions that some > knowledge can be ommited. As a result, the document has lapses, and > newbees can't follow it. This is the case with most of the docu

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Hi! Susanne Moog wrote: > Google Docs: > + fast and easy > + export to word, OO and others > + nicely done diffs with marking and showing what was changed where to > what and by whom > - I think you need a Google account If it is the only cons, than it is nothing... Anyone can get Google account

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Peter, > No offense(!) but it is funny to hear you acknowledge my ideas and at > the same time tell me you are working with totally different > documents... :-) ? What do you mean with "different documents"? > Thats exactly what I think is the problem, no clear goals and small > effort

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Peter Kindström
Hi Daniel No offense(!) but it is funny to hear you acknowledge my ideas and at the same time tell me you are working with totally different documents... :-) Thats exactly what I think is the problem, no clear goals and small efforts here and there. Dont misunderstand me, you are doing a grea

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Susanne Moog
Hi Daniel, hi all, Daniel Bruessler schrieb: > @all: > Is there one of these - google docs, zoho, thinkfree, ultea - what 1. > allows to see a simple diff of one single edit and 2. allows > SingleSignOn with www.typo3.org ? If yes we would have an interesting > alternative! just tested those a

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Peter Kindström
Hi Dmitry > I do not really like wiki. I prefer to use a word processor (OO). It > gives the feeling of document. Wiki does not look serious for me (I > understand that I am wrong but such feeling are hard to resist). > OOWriter has versioning feature, so it should be possible to switch > betwe

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread virgil huston
Andi, There are two kinds of editors. One is more properly a copy editor and that is the one who doesn't have to know much about what they are reviewing. These are the editors we need for ensuring that grammar is good, finding typos, and making sure things make sense. The other type is the editor

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Dan Osipov
My problem with that is that the developer documenting his work knows too much about his development, and makes assumptions that some knowledge can be ommited. As a result, the document has lapses, and newbees can't follow it. This is the case with most of the documentation on the site (Inside

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello, @Andreas thank you for the alternatives! I added them, we'll try them step by step. http://wiki.typo3.org/index.php/DocTeam#HowTo_-_Alternative_ways @all: Is there one of these - google docs, zoho, thinkfree, ultea - what 1. allows to see a simple diff of one single edit and 2. allows S

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Andreas Becker
Hi Dimitry +100 as a editor never knows about the inside of what the developer has created as good as the developer itself. BUT a developer could have an editor to whom he provides all necessary informations like most poltitician talks will be written not by those who speak but by ghost writers. B

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Dan Osipov wrote: > I actually prefer the wiki - people can make modifications and correct > any errors in the article. They can discuss the article contents in the > discussion section, and ask for help. Changes can be tracked through an > RSS feed, much harder to do in the OO files. I do not

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-14 Thread Cate & Peter
> > I do not really like wiki. I prefer to use a word processor (OO). It > > gives the feeling of document. I also prefer a document for tutorials and installation - it means that even if I don't have internet access, I am able to have a local copy of the instructions to use on a local machine. I

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-13 Thread Andreas Becker
Hi Dan Discussion and Versioning and especially collaborating in differnt ways is also possible with the mentioned solutions above + it is much easier to put the complete manual/tutorial afterwards always in its newest Version into the extensions. Everyone who develops extensions and HAS to write

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-13 Thread Dan Osipov
Andreas Becker wrote: > Hi all > > Meanwhile there are a lot of posibilities to collaborate on OO documents, > which I (like Dimitry) also prefer much more like a wiki. Have a look to > google docs, zoho, thinkfree, ultea, ... - those SaaS are much more editor > friendly like a wiki. Isn't it poss

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-13 Thread Andreas Becker
Hi all Meanwhile there are a lot of posibilities to collaborate on OO documents, which I (like Dimitry) also prefer much more like a wiki. Have a look to google docs, zoho, thinkfree, ultea, ... - those SaaS are much more editor friendly like a wiki. Isn't it possible to create a similar service f

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-13 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Dmitry, > I do not really like wiki. I prefer to use a word processor (OO). It > gives the feeling of document. please have a look at http://wiki.typo3.org/index.php/Typo3_tut Does it feel like a document for you? > OOWriter has versioning feature, so it should be possible to switch > b

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-13 Thread Daniel Bruessler
Hello Peter, > I put them on my own web site just to keep then unaltered in case people > would start asking what was done back then! :-) > > Feel free to copy them to the wiki. Thank you! We'll merge the current sxw-Version of each with your changes. for this taks I import your version into

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-13 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Hi! Peter Kindström wrote: > As I writer I would start by copying text from the old document into the > right place/header on the wiki page. Then I would add, delete, update > and change the text as needed. I would also have to rewrite some text so > it fits together with the headers/topics bef

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-13 Thread Peter Kindström
Hi > I think we talked a long time ago when you were still Doc Lead :-) I really > like your documents comments from the link you sent and I would like to use > them on the doc wiki. Thank you. I think most of them still can found on the wiki... !?! I put them on my own web site just to keep then

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-13 Thread Peter Kindström
Hi again! > I would love to hear from you or doc team how a developer (me to be > exact) can help to rewrite such document as FTB? How this work can be > organized/divided? I cannot imagine it :( I am quite sure I can get hold > of FTB ownership from Kasper, so we really can update it. Sorry,

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-13 Thread Christopher Schnell
Hi! Christopher Schnell wrote: > > > What do you think? > > Great idea! I think someone tried to organize ext reviews but this > initiative is dead as well. So you may pick it up :) But be sure that > you really can do it: it can be over 100 exts uploaded daily. We discussed that as well and ou

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-13 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Christopher Schnell wrote: > Sorry, wrong topic... I am changing the client right now. Oopes, I already replied there :( -- Dmitry Dulepov TYPO3 core team Web: http://typo3bloke.net/ Skype: callto:liels_bugs "Nothing is impossible. There are only limits to our knowledge"

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-13 Thread Christopher Schnell
] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Dmitry Dulepov [typo3] Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. März 2008 18:04 An: typo3-english@lists.netfielders.de Betreff: Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare Hi! virgil huston wrote: > At TCON07 I basically volunteered to be Doc Team lead and what has resulted >

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-12 Thread virgil huston
Hello Peter, I think we talked a long time ago when you were still Doc Lead :-) I really like your documents comments from the link you sent and I would like to use them on the doc wiki. Thank you. Virgil On Wed, Mar 12, 2008 at 10:39 PM, Andreas Becker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Peter > >

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-12 Thread Andreas Becker
Hi Peter You have got great ideas and it is really a BIG loss if you won't come back! I looked thru your documents and your structures are very clear, logical and good. Like it was said before, a good product needs a good documentation which is uptodate otherwise it won't be really usable even it

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-12 Thread Daniel Brüßler
Hello Dmitry, The big manuals like this are a problem when not done by teamwork. When two or three people can work on such a big one it's much easier. That's the task of the wiki. Then some people are needed to review it, people like you who know every bit and byte by name ;-) For example this

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-12 Thread Daniel Brüßler
Hello Peter, hey, nice to read from you again! Would really be nice if you come back. Now the import-export is very easy: OpenOffice can export a document in mediawiki-format and a wiki-page can be transformed by just copy-paste to an .sxw document. I changed the purpose of the wiki in the las

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-12 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Hi! Peter Kindström wrote: >> There was. I do not remember who was it leader but no one from key >> core people answered to his questions and he quit in protest. He was >> really good in doc writing. I think doc team ceased to exist after >> that. This was before I joined core team but I follow

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-12 Thread Peter Kindström
Hi! >> Is there a documentation TEAM which means people who's ONLY >> responsibility would be to look and coordinate the documentation? > > There was. I do not remember who was it leader but no one from key core > people answered to his questions and he quit in protest. He was really > good in

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-11 Thread Vincent
First, I want to say thank you to everybody for your kind and helpful responses. This gives me encouragement that we will likely get the help we need from the community to learn the system and overcome problems. The fact that typo3 has so many users and such an active community, even though there

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-11 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Hi! virgil huston wrote: > At TCON07 I basically volunteered to be Doc Team lead and what has resulted > so far is some internal talking with mainly Daniel Brussler. I am thinking > that Daniel is the de facto Doc Team leader now and that is fine, he does a > very good job with the wiki. In any ca

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-11 Thread virgil huston
Dmitry, At TCON07 I basically volunteered to be Doc Team lead and what has resulted so far is some internal talking with mainly Daniel Brussler. I am thinking that Daniel is the de facto Doc Team leader now and that is fine, he does a very good job with the wiki. In any case, I plan on trying to g

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-11 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Stephen Bungert wrote: > Stop people submitting extensions in tot he repository that don't have > documentation would be a good start. How to prevent them from submitting the empty manual? > As a new TYPO3 user I find that very frustrating, there seem tob e so many > extensions that might do what

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-11 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Hi! Andreas Becker wrote: > It is like you said. How to break this circle! that people like to write for > publishers but not for TYPO3 Documentation Because it pays real money back. -- Dmitry Dulepov TYPO3 core team Web: http://typo3bloke.net/ Skype: callto:liels_bugs "Nothing is impossible. T

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-11 Thread Dmitry Dulepov [typo3]
Hi! Andreas Becker wrote: > Is there a documentation TEAM which means people who's ONLY responsibility > would be to look and coordinate the documentation? There was. I do not remember who was it leader but no one from key core people answered to his questions and he quit in protest. He was real

Re: [TYPO3] Documentation nightmare

2008-03-11 Thread ries van Twisk
tt_news (how the hell are dates/times handled) and extensions like htmlarea. it should not be like that... But that will tell you a lot... > > > > -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- > Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von > ries van > Twisk

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