.
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accented Latin, Greek, or Cyrillic
letters because it screw up normalization. Use the actual upsilon capital
letter followed by the appropriate breathing and accent marks.
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]
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from an entirely
different dynasty is no biggie. So the Qing dictionary, the KangXi, would
have some taboo forms which would later become untaboo (especially now, of
course, since nobody does that kind of thing anymore).
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please?
The current version is at http://www.unicode.org/charts/Unihan3.2.pdf.
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a kDefinition entry in Unihan.txt.
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. They were omitted originally because they were
considered ligatures. Has there been a new paper and proposal?
Yes. WG2 documents N2473 and N2474 (when they show up, which should be
shortly) deal with the issue.
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?
Yes, they are. Ken Beesley of Xerox Research Center Europe is aware of
their use in handwritten materials and argues that treating them as mere
ligatures is insufficient. This will be WG2 document N2474.
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.
(The glyph is also probably missing in that font).
I don't think that Code2000 is an OpenType font, which means it won't have
the ancillary glyphs and data needed to do full proper support of many
languages and scripts.
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On Tuesday, May 21, 2002, at 09:01 PM, James Kass wrote:
John H. Jenkins wrote:
I don't think that Code2000 is an OpenType font, which means it won't
have
the ancillary glyphs and data needed to do full proper support of many
languages and scripts.
Code2000 is an OpenType font
can be used to mark
ligation points where they are absolutely necessary; where they are merely
stylistic preferences, they belong in markup.
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they
have at least given it a brief mention in a Character Foldings
proposal?
I would have hoped so, but evidently that didn't happen. That the UTC is
concerned about SC/TC data and other Han equivalences is, in any event,
already a part of the public record.
==
John H. Jenkins
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that are capable of doing this.
Agreement; Apple's current solution is a better-than-nothing one, but
not really what's best in the long run IMHO. BTW, does FontLab 4
auto-generate OT layout data from the Unicode repertoire of a font?
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.
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, your divide were to be between Mac OS 6 or earlier and Mac OS 7
or later (the point at which Apple adopted TrueType as its primary font
technology), then there are likely 99.99% of all Mac users on the
7-or-later side of the divide. Do you see what I'm asking here?
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ears to hear,
let him hear.
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iMac with Mac
OS Xagain, a Unicode-capable OS.
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can ignore (2) by simply issuing a locale-specific
version of a font, but there's no real way to get around (1).
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a conversion table from Windows 950 (with HKSCS)
to Unicode?
Er, doesn't MS provide one somewhere?
==
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On Thursday, June 20, 2002, at 03:25 PM, Kenneth Whistler wrote:
I think what a number of people on the list have been hinting -- or
openly stating -- is that prolixity is not a virtue on an email list
when trying to convey one's ideas.
IOW, brevity's wit's soul.
==
John H
Unicode 3.2.
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Hmm. Disregard the last message from me. It isn't ct you're replacing.
See how annoying this all is? :-)
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John H. Jenkins
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,
fact, to disprove the hypothesis that the experiment supposedly proved.
Will you guys *please* stop sending me email with the Shavian letter
CHURCH everywhere the Latin letters ct should be? It's most distracting.
:-)
==
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is simply not a matter of *plain
text*that is, the message is still perfectly correct whether ligatures
are on or off. There are some exceptional cases. The ZWJ/ZWNJ is
available for such exceptional cases.
==
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a set of ligatures which do not
make aesthetic sense for the overall design.
This last point, by the way, is the one which is the big sticking point
for the large type foundries that I've spoken to.
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nice to know that someone else looked at the
argument and came up with the same conclusion that I did.
For the record, Michael, this was the general feeling of the UTC when the
matter was debated there.
==
John H. Jenkins
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On Monday, July 1, 2002, at 06:28 AM, James Kass wrote:
John H. Jenkins wrote:
That seems pretty clear to me. If you want a ct ligature in your
document because you think it looks cool, then you use some
higher-level
protocol. The looks cool factor simply doesn't apply unless you know
).
==
John H. Jenkins
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On Monday, July 1, 2002, at 02:08 PM, Asmus Freytag wrote:
At 11:34 AM 6/30/02 -0600, John H. Jenkins wrote:
Remember, Unicode is aiming at encoding *plain text*. For the bulk of
Latin-based languages, ligation control is simply not a matter of *plain
text*that is, the message is still
pair kerning on and off. InDesign has a menu that lets you select
degree of ligation.
==
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table which is on by default and which isn't
revealed to the UI so that the user can't turn them off.
==
John H. Jenkins
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On Tuesday, July 2, 2002, at 09:49 AM, Michael Everson wrote:
At 09:41 -0600 2002-07-02, John H. Jenkins wrote:
Alas, but that's technically impossible. Both OT and AAT (I'm not sure
about Graphite) require that single characters map to single glyphs,
which are then processed.
Hm? How
and better
ones to him.
==
John H. Jenkins
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if something goes wrong and the
system attempts to actually *display* one of these virtual glyphs,
disaster would ensue. (Dave Opstad and I have had long debates on the
safety of doing this.)
==
John H. Jenkins
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these days is for the tools that provide advanced
layout table support to be keyed to glyph name. Apple's tools allow glyph
name, glyph number, of Unicode code point as glyph identifiers. As you
say, it makes it possible to cut-and-paste source files and is very handy.
==
John H. Jenkins
On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 11:57 AM, Asmus Freytag wrote:
Klingon (or any of the Latin ciphers/ movie scripts)
I'd say Klingon *and* one of the Latin ciphers. Klingon is almost worth a
FAQ in itself.
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that whenever j is
found with an accent, dotlessj is substituted.
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of the proposal. :-)
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to be used with ATSUI. It was kind
of cool, actually. We actually have a font zoo stashed away full of
pathological fonts which have been known to do all kinds of interesting
things if someone should be foolish enough to install them.
==
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On Wednesday, July 3, 2002, at 11:10 AM, Stefan Persson wrote:
There is a big problem in the current Unicode ſtandard, ſince
Fraktur letters aren't ſupported in any ſuitable manner.
Aargh! Medial long-s! Run away! Run away! :-)
==
John H. Jenkins
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, if the source used the ct ligature...
I see your point, but I think we're to the stage where we'll just have to
agree to disagree. We *do* agree that ligation is a choice, but you're
quite accurate in your assessment of where precisely we diverge.
==
John H. Jenkins
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of invisible characters which should, ordinarily, be
left undisplayed including ZWJ, ZWNJ, the bidi overrides, and so on.
==
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. There are
numerous places where Unicode provides multiple ways of representing
something. In this instance, Unicode is trying to delineate where a
particular mechanism is appropriate and where inappropriate.
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; but the font has been entirely
redesigned. We really need to update our documentation.
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, and there is the
problem that, as you note, some taboo variants have already been
encoded. It's currently scheduled to be reconsidered by the UTC.
==
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.
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On Friday, September 27, 2002, at 09:52 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I doubt there's anyone on this list that always agrees with me
I think you're wrong, there, Peter. I *never* disagree with you. :-)
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with the set font.
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which do not explicitly use ATSUI or MLTE are
limited in how much of the font they can use. Cocoa apps are pretty
much able to do anything.
==
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On Thursday, October 10, 2002, at 02:29 PM, Tex Texin wrote:
It looks close to several cjk characters, so I wasn't sure.
I think it's a variant turtle ideograph. :-)
(Nothing bad, so far as I know.)
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really
insist that they do the right thing. The same is true of Tibetan.
Even the PRC's own fonts have this problem. This is an unfortunate
bind we were put in and I hope we can correct it in a not-too-distant
release.
==
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semi-structured, no less.http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
But I'll be carefree [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using XSLThttp://www.reutershealth.com
In an XML DBMS.
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-- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
(End of Report)
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get beyond the stroke-count level. The
five-stroke-type classification used by the PRC is a fairly recent
innovation and not universally used.
Is there any online source for such data? Even for smaller sets than
Unicode
CJK.
Not that I'm aware.
==
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clearly allows both approaches.
The ZWJ mechanism is not *the* Unicode approach.
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strings of Unicode characters into them.
TrueType fonts are perfectly capable of supporting ligatures.
OpenType, AAT, and Graphite all use TrueType fonts, and all support
ligatures.
==
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is impossible
to fulfill, it can be ignored. For discretionary ligatures like ct,
this is the appropriate response. (Matters are a bit more complicated
for required ligatures, of course.)
==
John H. Jenkins
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:
* The Apple Font Tool Suite Manual (51 pages)
* Tool Quick Reference (8 pages)
* Tutorial (62 pages)
* Tutorial Command Summary (8 pages)
==
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Try control-clicking on the link and then selecting Save link to disk
from the popup menu.
On Tuesday, November 12, 2002, at 09:55 AM, Dean Snyder wrote:
At 4:49 PM John H. Jenkins wrote:
Cupertino 11/8/02: Today the Apple Font Group released its new suite
of
Unix command line font tools
versions of the Han ideographs are
something we haven't even got a good model for how to handle yet.
==
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On Wednesday, November 13, 2002, at 03:22 AM, Andrew C. West wrote:
On Wed, 13 Nov 2002 02:03:27 -0800 (PST), John H. Jenkins wrote:
Nope. We're still doing modern stuff.
Well, there's no rush, just as long as you get round to it sometime
... how
about reserving a plane now anyway
, and other typographic preferences. Indeed, it becomes
inconvenient to have them in a different layer as it means that the
client has to do *two* levels of processing to derive this information,
rather than just one.
=
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contact me so I can ask a
few more questions? Thanks a lot.
You could send my questions to me and I can have them circulated to the
proper people.
==
John H. Jenkins
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On Friday, November 29, 2002, at 05:23 AM, Theodore H. Smith wrote:
What is wrong? Is it something to do with font fallbacks? I am not
touching font fallbacks at all. All I did was set the FontID for my
ATSUStyle object, to that for Monaco plain.
I'm a bit stuck here, can someone help? I
Is it possible to regenerate the Unihan database with the correct
secondary
Mandarin readings ?
Certainly in the Unicode 4.0 time-frame we can improve things. I can't
make any guarantees, however.
==
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so that people don't have
to rewrite their perl scripts and other parsers. I know you're asking
if we could add an XML format *in addition* to the non-XML one, but
given the size of Unihan.txt, that isn't likely.
==
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Web page at
http://www.unicode.org/charts/unihan.html.
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of handwriting
and uses such abbreviations, then you would need the font
to ligate mm sequences into a *glyph* showing an m with
an overbar.
Remembering, of course, to use ZWNJ to mark places where this ligature
may not be used.
==
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.
Well, not from Apple's, anyway. Several GB18030 fonts come with Mac OS
X 10.2, but we don't have a license to make them freely downloadable.
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. Otherwise any of the free Greek
fonts on the Internet would work.
On Mac OS 9, the situation is a bit grimmer, as there aren't many
Unicode-savvy applications. SUE would be one option. You should be
able to find it using Google.
==
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On Google, "year of the goat" has the
lead.
Systran has sheep. KangXi says (if I'm understanding it correctly) something like "animal with curved horns." (It's more complex than that, but I think I caught the essence.)
==
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.
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with the bone radical) which
have different appearance in simplified and traditional Chinese, even
though the two have been unified in Unicode. Identifying a text as
simplified vs. traditional could help in automatic font selection.
==
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for this purpose.
For people on Mac OS X, there is a set of tools available for download
from http://developer.apple.com/fonts/ which, like TTX, can decompile
table from TrueType and OpenType fonts and let the user edit the
results. These *do* support astral characters.
==
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the astral planes.
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the
character palette (in the keyboard menu) or install Apple's font tools
http://developer.apple.com/fonts and use ftxinstalledfonts with the
-U option. Both of these work with astral characters.
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use the loopy form to ensure appropriate contrast
with the straight form used for U+03D5.
/quote
What annotation in 3.2 do you feel is incorrect?
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AAT support for their
specific font without too much trouble.
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is.
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pounds].
Apparently a weighty publication, that forthcoming Unicode standard...
Cheers,
Otto Stolz
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). I'm not sure
of the status of Unicode support, but it seems to be fine if you're not
worrying about collating or similar services. It's what's used at the
moment to host the Unihan database, for example.
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prefer to say Mr Roberts.
==
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On Monday, July 7, 2003, at 4:38 PM, Michael Everson wrote:
At 16:22 -0600 2003-07-07, John H. Jenkins wrote:
IIRC the English prefer to say Mr Roberts.
The, ahem, Irish too. ;-)
Well, to be frank, I'm sure that the Welsh, Scots, and Manx probably
do, too. (Did I leave anybody out *this* time
On Thursday, July 17, 2003, at 12:00 AM, Richard Cook wrote:
I'm guessing this just hasn't been implemented yet.
You are guessing correctly. Once some of the dust settles from my day
job, I expect I can get to this.
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think PUA characters are used, actually, but I could
be wrong.
No, it uses the acutal Unicode characters, and just has a huge cmap
that maps everything in Unicode to the glyph for its block.
==
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it would be useful for its Mac users.
Er, no. Apple thought it would be useful for its Mac users and
commissioned Michael to make glyphs. (And I personally think he's done
an excellent job.)
==
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=GraphiteFonts.
We could probably help you get it to work on Mac OS X. Meanwhile,
Xenotype claims to have a Burmese language kit for Mac OS X
(http://www.xenotypetech.com/osxBurmese.html), although nobody at
Apple has seen it, so we can't confirm that it works as advertised.
==
John H
converts Unicode to old Mac scripts which it
then renders. That's why all the question marks when the page is
looked at with MS Explorer.
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the question of the other symbols.
It's a logo. We normally don't do logos.
To be a little less terse, in the case of symbols like this, it is the
strong preference not to encode as a means to encourage use.
John H. Jenkins
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using
UTF-8, UTF-16, or UTF-32.
John H. Jenkins
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. :-)
John H. Jenkins
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. Is it true
that, to represent Chinese simplified programmatically, two bytes will
do.
Unicode in the UTF-16 encoding will cover almost all the simplified
Chinese characters people use today in two bytes. There are the
occasional exceptions which will require four bytes.
John H. Jenkins
that the
latest version of FontLab will generate an appropriate cmap entry for
it, but I don't know for sure.)
John H. Jenkins
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to the PUA using ftxdumperfuser (or
remove their Unicode mappings altogether), and re-add (or re-shift) the
Unicode mappings after using FontLab with the same tool.
John H. Jenkins
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is in (a
slightly altered form of) NFD.
Slightly altered?
Yes, the specification for the Mac file system was frozen before NFD
had been developed by the UTC, so it isn't exactly the same. But it's
close.
John H. Jenkins
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On Dec 6, 2004, at 10:23 AM, Johannes Bergerhausen wrote:
From some discussions here i learned that Arial Unicode MS contains
about 50.000 glyphs,
which is about the size of characters encoded in Unicode 2.0 and was
shipped the last
time bundled with Office for Windows 2003.
A Pan-Unicode-Font
On Dec 8, 2004, at 3:57 PM, Patrick Andries wrote:
Azzedine Ait Khelifa a écrit :
Hello All,
The subject of this conference is really interesting and veryusefull.
But once again Africa is forgotten.
I want to know, if we can have the same conference AfricaOriented
scheduled ?
If Not, What
On Dec 10, 2004, at 1:25 PM, Tim Greenwood wrote:
Is that like the 'Please RSVP' that I see all too often? Or should
that not be excused?
Or -- my own personal favorite -- in the year AD 2004.
As you say, the main problem is that there are so many different
possible sets. Some will be proprietary, which would limit their
usefulness although there would, I believe, otherwise be no objection
to its inclusion. If you can come up with a reasonably standard set and
reasonably consistent
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