Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-18 Thread Marielle Lange
(obviously going through posts from the last week). ALso, it IS clear from the description that the old dialog box/ sheet approach will still be available. I think the idea of having the document appearance change dynamically as you mouse over the icons for the design changes is a real codin

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-12 Thread SimPLsol
Dan, I agree completely. HyperCard "hooked" me with the Addresses stack. I added one field ("Birthdays", so when I looked up someone's phone number I could see if there were any birthdays or anniversaries in the family in the next week or so) and never looked back. It would be nice to have a

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-12 Thread SimPLsol
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Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-12 Thread Troy Rollins
On Oct 12, 2005, at 1:06 AM, Judy Perry wrote: But, respectfully, they all LOOK ALIKE. You can spot them from a mile away. They are fake; they not infrequently have nothing to do with the content which they exist presumably to advance. They were chosen for being the least obnoxious of the pr

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-12 Thread Dan Shafer
Think of Revolution (or perhaps more appropriately Dreamcard) in this context. If we could define, say, 10 or 12 basic application types that have a significant number of elements in common within each and make it possible to get a big head start in creating an app by choosing what we can t

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-12 Thread jbv
Scott , > I must be missing the point of your post. MS claims to be providing more > templates and making the UI easier to use. To use your example, they're > adding even more presets and converting the tiny LCD into a full color > display. Whether they succeed remains to be seen, but the goa

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-12 Thread Dan Shafer
Yes, but by all accounts, it will be a special, proprietary XML that they won't open. And they've publicly stated that they will NOT support OpenFormat, which is an XML standard format. Dan On Oct 11, 2005, at 11:52 PM, Scott Kane wrote: IMO, the fact that MSWord saves files in their ow

RE: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-12 Thread xbury . cs
Given their HEAVY use of tags in word html or rtf exports, sounds scary already! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 12/10/2005 08:52:54: > > > IMO, the fact that MSWord saves files in their own proprietary markup > > language *should* discourage anyone from ever using it. It'd sure be > > cool if mo

RE: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Scott Kane
> IMO, the fact that MSWord saves files in their own proprietary markup > language *should* discourage anyone from ever using it. It'd sure be > cool if more adopted Massachusetts Open Doc policy. > http://www.pcworld.com/news/article/0,aid,122685,00.asp Hi Chipp, I'm on the beta team for Off

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread sims
At 10:06 PM -0700 10/11/05, Judy Perry wrote: But, respectfully, they all LOOK ALIKE. These 'templets' or whatever they are called, are offered - you are not forced to use them. From the mouth of the Beast on page: http://www.microsoft.com/office/preview/uioverview.mspx "The traditional dialo

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Judy Perry
But, respectfully, they all LOOK ALIKE. You can spot them from a mile away. They are fake; they not infrequently have nothing to do with the content which they exist presumably to advance. They were chosen for being the least obnoxious of the predetermined lot. Modifying them doesn't even come

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Chipp Walters
Charles Hartman wrote: A Whole New Look to office memos is a bad thing, distracting, not a good thing; memos are not art. If you're a typographer or graphic designer it's a different story -- but then you don't use MS Office. Charles, I respectfully disagree. Just like websites, many Offi

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Dan Shafer
Charles I don't think that's what MS has in mind here, though it could be an unintended side effect. Rather, as I see it, they allow someone who has written a memo and who looks at the printout and finds it crowded to mouse over some alternate margin and spacing settings as graphical

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Charles Hartman
On Oct 11, 2005, at 6:06 PM, Scott Rossi wrote: I think it's perfectly understandable that the musicians you cite didn't want to learn how to program the equipment. I'll wager the majority of them wanted to spend their time making music, not learning an arcane programming language. And y

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Dan Shafer
Or, at the risk of a firestorm raining down on my head, Thomas Kinkade. Dan On Oct 11, 2005, at 3:41 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote: Trevor DeVore wrote: Well, that depends on what studio they are coming out of and the quality of the sounds from their library :-) It also depends on whether th

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Mark Wieder
Devin- Tuesday, October 11, 2005, 3:00:57 PM, you wrote: > Isn't this whole malleable template approach to word processing > exactly what Apple does with the new Pages word processor. I looked To me it seems that they've taken a cue from skinnable apps. I'm most intrigued by the "Developer" me

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Alex Tweedly
Trevor DeVore wrote: Well, that depends on what studio they are coming out of and the quality of the sounds from their library :-) It also depends on whether the music produced was something that was paid for or something that the person was doing for fun. Now, if you are hiring someone

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Scott Rossi
Recently, jbv wrote: >> Actually, there is a difference: not how things *should* look but how things >> *can* look. Again, the premise is that users are more comfortable modifying >> existing designs/layouts/templates, rather than starting from scratch. The >> template designers are giving user

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Devin Asay
Isn't this whole malleable template approach to word processing exactly what Apple does with the new Pages word processor. I looked at the MS screen shots, then fired up my copy of Pages, and thought how lucky MS is to have Apple do its R&D. ;-) Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Mark Smith
I think the history of synthesizers is quite an interesting example of what happens in the real world. Back in late seventies, most synths had wonderful UIs (ie. lots of single-function knobs and buttons). Sequential Circuits (RIP) had noticed, even then, that 90% of the synths returned f

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Trevor DeVore
On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:30 PM, jbv wrote: IMHO this is the kind of approach that works perfectly on paper, but not so well in real life... Let's take the example of electronic music devices (synths, rhythm-boxes, etc). Since the mid 80's most of them come with numerous presets, but also with ed

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Judy Perry
On Tue, 11 Oct 2005, Dom wrote: > As if Revolution shipped with a number of pre-made stacks ;-))) ;-) Judy ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread jbv
Scott Rossi a *crit : > Actually, there is a difference: not how things *should* look but how things > *can* look. Again, the premise is that users are more comfortable modifying > existing designs/layouts/templates, rather than starting from scratch. The > template designers are giving users

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Chipp Walters
Chipp Walters wrote: My experience is that people criticize much better than they create. This is one of the reasons design schools emphasize 'crits' and rarely give 'blank page' exercises (even thesis work rarely involves starting from scratch). It's also the reason many prefer 'template' app

Re: Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Malte Brill
Dom wrote: >As if Revolution shipped with a number of pre-made stacks ;-))) Which would be no bad idea IMHO. :-D All the best, Malte --- ArcadeEngine - prepare to WOW your audience within minutes http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine http://www.derbrill.com/arcadeengine/forum

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Chipp Walters
Judy Perry wrote: --I'd argue that the empty page forces people to think and explore and create; to promote activity as opposed to passivity. Should, say, computer science lectures look just like comparative lit lectures, which look just like... My experience is that people criticize much bett

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Dom
Judy Perry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On the one hand, I "get" that these sorts of things enable people to do > things they might otherwise not be able to do. OTOH, it seems also to > disable their ability to be creative (ala grammar "checkers" that > discourage composition of compelling prose

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-11 Thread Judy Perry
On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Scott Rossi wrote: > Actually, there is a difference: not how things *should* look but how things > *can* look. Again, the premise is that users are more comfortable modifying > existing designs/layouts/templates, rather than starting from scratch. The > template designers

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-10 Thread Scott Rossi
Recently, Judy Perry wrote: > Of course users want to be told how things should look. Actually, there is a difference: not how things *should* look but how things *can* look. Again, the premise is that users are more comfortable modifying existing designs/layouts/templates, rather than starting

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-10 Thread Dan Shafer
Lots of reasons to dislike Microsoft, to be sure, and to distrust them as well. Still, I've been looking in greater depth at the new Office UI and thinking about it and I think that for most users who care about results -- the what and not the how -- this new approach to the user experien

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-10 Thread Judy Perry
Sounds like even more 'Death by PowerPoint' ... Of course users want to be told how things should look. But your point is well taken re: reading the originals. In case you might wonder why the knee-jerk reaction, I this term have ~30 upper-division university students (non-CS majors), and not a

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-10 Thread Judy Perry
FWIW, I've got Dan's blog loading while I post this response, but, if your commentary is spot-on, then it is a scary thing... appropriately in-season. Judy On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, jbv wrote: > > > Dan , > "The new interface displays galleries of possible end-states, each of which > combine many >

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-10 Thread Bob Hartley
On 10/10/2005 20:42:41, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Dan , > > > Jakob > Nielsen's Alertbox newsletter today is about the new "results > > oriented user experience" being developed by Microsoft for its > > bloated Office product line. > > > > I provide my thoughts and links at http://www.eclecticity

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-10 Thread Scott Rossi
Recently, jbv wrote: > Here's a quote from J. Nielsen's article (BTW the link you provide > on your blog is wrong) : > "The new interface displays galleries of possible end-states, each of which > combine many > formatting operations. From this gallery, you select the complete look of your > targ

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-10 Thread jbv
Dan , > Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox newsletter today is about the new "results > oriented user experience" being developed by Microsoft for its > bloated Office product line. > > I provide my thoughts and links at http://www.eclecticity.com/. > 3c65da4c in case anyone cares or wants to discuss it t

Re: [OT] Microsoft Office's New UI Blazes Some New Trails for Us

2005-10-10 Thread Richard Gaskin
Dan Shafer wrote: Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox newsletter today is about the new "results oriented user experience" being developed by Microsoft for its bloated Office product line. I provide my thoughts and links at http://www.eclecticity.com/. 3c65da4c in case anyone cares or wants to discuss