[Summary] Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform

2004-05-03 Thread Derek Hohls
The thread on this topic refers (http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?t=10831568303&r=1&w=2), where I highlighted some concerns about understanding the supposed "best path" for developing complex, interactive (2-way) database applications, using some of the newer Cocoon technologies PLUS various add-o

Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread gounis
Hi we are using cocoon 2 years ago just for publishing static web sites and we think that its THE perfect choice for that. further more we have try to use cocoon as a Database Front-End-ReadOnly interface. And here cocoon's power to handle SQL select queries in the way Query --> xml --XSL--> [p

Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Brent Fitzgerald
Hi Tony, Thanks for asking. I see where you are coming from. Well first let me emphasize that I don't mean to criticize Cocoon or its documentation. I really like Cocoon, and in fact I think I have a weird sort of affection for it. The whole project is great, and I truly appreciate all the

Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Ugo Cei
Il giorno 28/apr/04, alle 19:53, Bruno Dumon ha scritto: Couldn't you say that of any widget on the form? The form already acts as an insulation layer between the request and the backend. That's true. Probably it's my scarce experience with repeaters that makes me want to double-check what come

Re: Documentation (was "RE: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?")

2004-04-28 Thread Tony Collen
David Leangen wrote: What documentation exactly? What sort of documentation are you looking for? If I can add my 2 cents, I'd be really interested in seeing some kind of comparison with other solutions (such as Struts). I think that other first time or potential users may also find this interest

Documentation (was "RE: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?")

2004-04-28 Thread David Leangen
> What documentation exactly? > > What sort of documentation are you looking for? If I can add my 2 cents, I'd be really interested in seeing some kind of comparison with other solutions (such as Struts). I think that other first time or potential users may also find this interesting... Just a

Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Tony Collen
Brent Fitzgerald wrote: Derek, you've elucidated what I'm sure is a recurring tension for many cocoon users. I really identify with you. My group has been using Cocoon for a little over a year now to publish a huge set of XML content, translated and localized for several languages. Cocoon has

Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Brent Fitzgerald
Derek, you've elucidated what I'm sure is a recurring tension for many cocoon users. I really identify with you. My group has been using Cocoon for a little over a year now to publish a huge set of XML content, translated and localized for several languages. Cocoon has been an excellent choi

Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Bruno Dumon
On Wed, 2004-04-28 at 14:50, Derek Hohls wrote: > And in the beginning, Stephan Mazocchi created Cocoon. It was based on > XML - Programmers used Java and Users used XSLT - and it was simple but > good. And it worked and applications were delivered. Everyone > understood and everyone was happy.

Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Bruno Dumon
On Wed, 2004-04-28 at 19:12, Ugo Cei wrote: > Il giorno 28/apr/04, alle 19:03, Joel McConaughy ha scritto: > > > Both the hibernate collection and Cforms repeater handle > > add/change/delete logic. If you introduce an intermediate collection, > > don't you have to re-implement that logic in orde

RE: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Joel McConaughy
Direct 206-382-2188 Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Ugo Cei [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 10:13 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ? Il giorno 28/apr/04, alle 19:03, Joel McConaughy ha

Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Ugo Cei
Il giorno 28/apr/04, alle 19:03, Joel McConaughy ha scritto: Both the hibernate collection and Cforms repeater handle add/change/delete logic. If you introduce an intermediate collection, don't you have to re-implement that logic in order to create an effective mapping from one to the other? For

RE: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Joel McConaughy
esday, April 28, 2004 9:46 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ? Il giorno 28/apr/04, alle 18:20, Joel McConaughy ha scritto: > IMHO, an out-of-the-box hibernate/cforms binding (or some other O/R > framework) should be a hard

Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Ugo Cei
Il giorno 28/apr/04, alle 18:20, Joel McConaughy ha scritto: IMHO, an out-of-the-box hibernate/cforms binding (or some other O/R framework) should be a hard requirement -- otherwise where is the productivity gain? Personally I'd feel a slight unease at the thought of directly bindiing a Hibernate

Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Ugo Cei
Il giorno 28/apr/04, alle 18:08, Tony Collen ha scritto: I'm sure Ugo, as well as other people on the lists can relate some real-world success stories about using Cocoon. Just today we released a new Cocoon web appplication. It's still beta, and it's all in Italian, but you can try it here: http

Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Tony Collen
Joel McConaughy wrote: ... [snip] ... Ugo Cei has claimed that all you need is Flowscript, CForms, some sort of O/R mapping (Like hibernate or OJB), and the JXTemplateGenerator and you're set. I tend to agree with him, but I have no practical experience to back it up with :) I'm not sure th

RE: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Joel McConaughy
Ave., #101-316 Seattle, WA 98104-3191 206-300-4732 Direct 206-382-2188 Fax [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Tony Collen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 9:09 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platf

Re: Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Tony Collen
Comments inline... Derek Hohls wrote: ... [snip] ... But many still spoke up, saying that Cocoon was but one Framework among many and so insufficient on its own to deliver Real Applications. And so a great Babel of other languages and tools were taken up and other approaches, based on the Old W

Cocoon: Language Babel -or- Database Development Platform ?

2004-04-28 Thread Derek Hohls
And in the beginning, Stephan Mazocchi created Cocoon. It was based on XML - Programmers used Java and Users used XSLT - and it was simple but good. And it worked and applications were delivered. Everyone understood and everyone was happy. And then the Users spoke up, saying that Web Publishing