[libreoffice-users] QA Call Reminder: Monday @ 19:30 UTC

2013-12-01 Thread Robinson Tryon
Hi all, The QA Team is having another one of our marvelous bi-weekly calls tomorrow. All are welcome! The agendum for the meeting and information on how to join via your phone or browser are available here: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/Meetings/2013/December_02 If you're new to the pro

Re: [libreoffice-users] Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Peter West
Typo there. Obviously you meant to say "non-proprietary." Peter West ...he saw a poor widow put in two copper coins. On 2 Dec 2013, at 4:32 am, Urmas wrote: > "James Knott": > >> Ever hear of Linux? > > Linux is a clone of UNIX, an epitome of a proprietary operating system. -- To unsubscr

[libreoffice-users] Re: How do I set default date format in Writer?

2013-12-01 Thread Denis Navas Vega
El 2013-11-30 12:03 a.m., fos escribió: How can I set the date format in Writer so that whenever I select INSERT->FIELDS->DATE it will insert a hard December 31, 1999 (for example) instead of the 12/31/99 which is totally inappropriate for correspondence. I wish too, have a configurable date fo

Re: [libreoffice-users] Detailed information on frame positioning Writer

2013-12-01 Thread Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
On 12/01/2013 04:41 PM, Regina Henschel wrote: you can look into the spec http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#__RefHeading__1418758_253892949 o, smart! I had not considered looking at the spec! :-) -- Andrew Pitonyak My Macro Document: http://www.

Re: [libreoffice-users] Bug report -- Libre Ofice version 4.1.3.2 (again)

2013-12-01 Thread Steve Edmonds
On 2013-12-02 08:41, jomali wrote: On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 4:44 AM, Robert Baker wrote: Version: 4.1.3.2 Build ID: 70feb7d99726f064edab4605a8ab84 0c50ec57a Libre Office Writer: The ability to draw and erase lines in tables is missing, hence for instance it is not possible (that I know of) to

Re: [libreoffice-users] A feature, or ...?

2013-12-01 Thread Steve Edmonds
On 2013-11-29 14:38, Peter West wrote: I suspect that at least part of the problem here is that it is sometimes difficult to see - especially with an inherited document - exactly how formatting has been applied and consequently how it might be removed. The problem is that _some_ formatting s

Re: [libreoffice-users] Detailed information on frame positioning Writer

2013-12-01 Thread Kevin O'Brien
Thanks to both Andrew and Regina, I think I am moving in the right direction. Regards, On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 4:41 PM, Regina Henschel wrote: > Hi Kevin, > > Kevin O'Brien schrieb: > >> Is there a source for detailed information on frame positioning in Writer? >> >> Thanks, >> > > you can look i

Re: [libreoffice-users] Detailed information on frame positioning Writer

2013-12-01 Thread Regina Henschel
Hi Kevin, Kevin O'Brien schrieb: Is there a source for detailed information on frame positioning in Writer? Thanks, you can look into the spec http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#__RefHeading__1418758_253892949 Or do you need it in a macro? Kind regard

Re: [libreoffice-users] Detailed information on frame positioning Writer

2013-12-01 Thread Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
On 11/30/2013 08:38 PM, Kevin O'Brien wrote: Is there a source for detailed information on frame positioning in Writer? Thanks, Let me provide some context around Mr. O'Brien. 1. He is very smart. 2. He is well versed with OpenOffice. Sufficiently well versed, that I have seen him (in person

Re: [libreoffice-users] How-to draw Square around math/formula??

2013-12-01 Thread Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
can you insert the formula into a frame and then give the frame a border? On 11/30/2013 05:01 PM, Gary Kline wrote: Organization: Thought Unlimited. Public service Unix since 1986. Of_Interest: With 27 years of service to the Unix community. hi guys, I've tried everything

Re: [libreoffice-users] Anchoring frames to paragraphs vs. to characters

2013-12-01 Thread Andrew Douglas Pitonyak
On 11/30/2013 05:17 PM, Kevin O'Brien wrote: I am having trouble understanding the difference between these two options. I think I get anchoring to a page, and anchoring as a character is pretty clear. But I have not yet grokked how to paragraph and to character are different. Can anyone enlighte

Re: [libreoffice-users] Bug report -- Libre Ofice version 4.1.3.2 (again)

2013-12-01 Thread jomali
On Sun, Dec 1, 2013 at 4:44 AM, Robert Baker wrote: > Version: 4.1.3.2 > Build ID: 70feb7d99726f064edab4605a8ab84 > 0c50ec57a > > Libre Office Writer: > > The ability to draw and erase lines in tables is missing, hence for > instance it is not possible (that I know of) to use Writer to create an

[libreoffice-users] Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Urmas
"James Knott": Ever hear of Linux? Linux is a clone of UNIX, an epitome of a proprietary operating system. it's the OS used on the space station. Proven a hoax by Agency. -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/

[libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Urmas
"Tom Davies": ...Rtf never achieved MS's promise of being an interoperable format either. RTF is just a textual dump of document structures. It is as close to lossless interchange format as it can be. However ODF is a lot more secure All text formats are secure as they do not contain machi

Re: Formats & failed marketing, was: Fwd: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :) I think the largest company in the eco-system is beginning to be TDF! IBM is larger but it doesn't seem to want to be a big name in office desktops. Does the ODF Alliance still exist? Their website seems to be dead or perhaps just very out-of-date. Perhaps people from TDF could get involve

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :) We don't all agree on anything very much. It's only through discussions that we arrive at a mutual understanding. One of the great things about FOSS, imo, is that we can all have very different ideas about how to do things and yet work together. It's often precisely because someone thinks

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Paul
On Fri, 29 Nov 2013 19:20:03 -0500 "Virgil Arrington" wrote: > I wouldn't consider it either cunning or holding people hostage to > provide them with a free trial of software that is otherwise only > available for a price. That, indeed, has been the essence of > shareware -- try before you buy. A

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Paul
Well, I've been at a couple of companies which most definitely *did not* allow you to install the software at home. That wasn't part of the license terms, and they only had enough seats for those that needed the software. For some products, Visio being one I recall, I couldn't even install that at

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Virgil Arrington
Jonathan wrote: Assuming the organization is not SoHo sized, or smaller, unless the person negotiating with Microsoft for licenses is a complete idiot, the license will allow for each employee to install MSO on their home computer, for the duration of their employment, or the corporate license

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Virgil Arrington
James wrote: No PC-Write??? ;-) Oh, stab me in the heart. My 64 bit computer tells me it won't run PC-Write (yes, I've tried). Also, my printers won't recognize DOS printer drivers. At any rate, PC-Write's document files were simple ASCII files with a few formatting codes thrown in; quite

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread tk
Marco . Fioretti wrote: >> Assuming the organization is not SoHo sized, or smaller, unless the person >> negotiating with Microsoft for licenses is a complete idiot, the license >> will allow for each employee to install MSO on their home computer, for the >> duration of their employment, or

Re: Formats & failed marketing, was: Fwd: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Italo Vignoli
On 01/12/13 14:14, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: > Today, things are very different: > - the ODF ecosystem is not so unified (and to explain why probably > needs a whitepaper) Unfortunately, the largest company in the ecosystem is now focused on other objectives, and has been instrumental in splitti

Re: Formats & failed marketing, was: Fwd: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Tinkerer
LibreOffice as a BRAND is growing stronger every day. It is easily recognized once it has been introduced. When the name was chosen it must have been uppermost in the TDF mindset that they were creating a brand.. Promoting the Brand is surely what matters to all who want to see LibreOffice succeed.

Re: Formats & failed marketing, was: Fwd: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Le Sun, 1 Dec 2013 16:11:03 +0100, "M. Fioretti" a écrit : > On Sun, Dec 01, 2013 14:14:50 PM +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: > > > as you know there was a time when the ecosystem was much stronger > > and unified to promote ODF. > > > > Today, things are very different: > > - the ODF ecosystem

Re: Formats & failed marketing, was: Fwd: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread M. Fioretti
On Sun, Dec 01, 2013 14:14:50 PM +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: > as you know there was a time when the ecosystem was much stronger > and unified to promote ODF. > > Today, things are very different: > - the ODF ecosystem is not so unified (and to explain why probably > needs a whitepaper) so

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread M. Fioretti
On Sun, Dec 01, 2013 11:41:58 AM +, Tom Davies wrote: > Hi :) > Retraining to use the ribbon-bar is easier than reformating tons of > documents but why reformat them? It's possible to keep the old > version of MS Office and install LibreOffice alongside it. > > Then new things can be graduall

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread John Meyer
On 11/30/2013 3:44 PM, James Knott wrote: Urmas wrote: "James Knott" сообщил(а) в новостях следующее:529918d1.30...@rogers.com... ...and then hold [created documents] hostage, until the users coughs up for MS Office. There is immense number of software capable import DOC files, due to their f

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread John Meyer
I'm thinking we've got troll-sighting On 11/30/2013 10:25 AM, jomali wrote: Once again, Umas, you set up a straw man and demolish him! FOSS means "Free and Open Source Software". It doesn't necessarily refer to software created by some pure amateur in his garage. As long as the creator (comme

[libreoffice-users] Re: Bug report -- Libre Ofice version 4.1.3.2 (again)

2013-12-01 Thread CVAlkan
For What It's Worth: I am using Writer Version: 4.1.3.2 (Build ID: 70feb7d99726f064edab4605a8ab840c50ec57a) on 64 bit Ubuntu Linux 12.04 LTS, and use tables extensively with and without borders and with mixed borders, but haven't run into any problems with border lines. Can you mention what OS et

Re: Formats & failed marketing, was: Fwd: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Charles-H. Schulz
Hello Marco, Le Sun, 1 Dec 2013 11:54:27 +0100, "M. Fioretti" a écrit : > On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 11:38:12 AM +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: > > > > So Marco's personal beef with "continuing to promote the software > > > ahead of the format" kinda misses the point that we never really > > > put a

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread James Knott
Virgil Arrington wrote: > So, my computer has Office (Starter version), LO *and* WordPerfect, so > I can talk to just about anybody. No PC-Write??? ;-) -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsub

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Virgil Arrington
Marco wrote: ... because nobody, including many FOSS advocates, bothers enough to demand open file formats? My guess is that those of us who use LO in general, and those of us on this list, in particular, are a little more computer savvy than the typical office worker using MS-Office. When s

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread John Meyer
Paolo, First off, every company has periodic changes in ui and features when they upgrade. I'd be concerned if somebody was offering me an upgrade that looked and worked exactly like the previous version. Also, using the term steal in regards to discounted prices is more than a bit inflammatory.

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :) +1 Sadly that does seem to be true but having done the shock&awe and grabbed their attention it's time to consider getting back to reality Regards from Tom :) On 1 December 2013 10:31, M. Fioretti wrote: > On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 10:57:05 AM -0500, Felmon Davis wrote: > >> I concur that the

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :) Retraining to use the ribbon-bar is easier than reformating tons of documents but why reformat them? It's possible to keep the old version of MS Office and install LibreOffice alongside it. Then new things can be gradually moved to LibreOffice. Migration rather than switch-over. The Libre

[libreoffice-users] Re: Detailed information on frame positioning Writer

2013-12-01 Thread william drescher
On 12/1/2013 6:09 AM, Tom Davies wrote: Hi :) Have you tried documentation https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications and the Faq? https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq Regards from Tom :) Tom, I looked through the TOC and did a search for "frame" and "frames" and did n

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread M. Fioretti
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 17:27:19 PM -0500, James Knott wrote: > M. Fioretti wrote: > > *Big* charities often have the problems that Jonathon said. Very > > small organizations, instead, need to spend zero time/money on > > maintaining/re-learning the software they have to use, because it > > would be

Re: [libreoffice-users] Detailed information on frame positioning Writer

2013-12-01 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :) Have you tried documentation https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Documentation/Publications and the Faq? https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Faq Regards from Tom :) On 1 December 2013 01:38, Kevin O'Brien wrote: > Is there a source for detailed information on frame positioning in Writer? >

Re: Formats & failed marketing, was: Fwd: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread M. Fioretti
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 11:38:12 AM +0100, Charles-H. Schulz wrote: > > So Marco's personal beef with "continuing to promote the software > > ahead of the format" kinda misses the point that we never really put > > any effort into promoting the program. Any such effort used to be > > severely hamper

[libreoffice-users] Bug report -- Libre Ofice version 4.1.3.2 (again)

2013-12-01 Thread Robert Baker
Version: 4.1.3.2 Build ID: 70feb7d99726f064edab4605a8ab84 0c50ec57a Libre Office Writer: The ability to draw and erase lines in tables is missing, hence for instance it is not possible (that I know of) to use Writer to create an echelon table such as a table of dominoes (see attached image for an

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread M. Fioretti
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 10:57:05 AM -0500, Felmon Davis wrote: > I concur that the rhetoric about drug-dealing is too heated and is > inaccurate. even if that were true, in most practical cases is the most effective, if not simply the ONLY way, to make ordinary computer users pay attention for at le

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread Tom Davies
Hi :) Errr, just to highlight the point that while i think Doc (NOT DocX) is the best format for file-sharing right now it is not a good future-proof format for long-term storage. ODF is better for storage because it's implementation is closer to the specifications drawn up as it's ISO standard.

Re: Cost of MS Office relative to LO, was: Fwd: [libreoffice-users] Re: moving to new version of MS Office

2013-12-01 Thread M. Fioretti
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 12:15:53 PM -0800, tk wrote: > > >or quietly being given, a copy of an employer's software meant that > MS Office products gained near-ubiquity. > Assuming the organization is not SoHo sized, or smaller, unless the > person negotiating with Microsoft for licenses is a complete