On Tue, Jun 4, 2013 at 7:51 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
I have never heard of mechanical work from temperatures below 100 deg C.
>
I recall reading on this list at one point that a Stirling engine could do
something along these lines. There is this post, which says something
similar [1], and this l
Sarcasm has no place in science. To me it is just telling a lie and laughing
about it.
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
From: dlrober...@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 13:02:11 -0400
OK, I guess it was not clear to me what you were pointing out. It
DJ Cravens wrote:
> Peltiers give you direct heat > electrical but you are lucky to get 5% in
> the real world on those and that would mean a COP of 20 for a self
> sustaining thing.
>
I believe that is 5% with high heat, such as the exhaust pipe of a truck.
> Jed- do you know who/what is th
OK, I guess it was not clear to me what you were pointing out. It had the
sound of sarcasm...my bad.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: DJ Cravens
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 12:33 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
that is why I said: "if your pr
that Ecats are just one of many paths in the area of "CF".
D2
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
From: dlrober...@aol.com
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 12:17:10 -0400
Dennis, please look at the many descriptions that have been written about why
the
that must be available for
stable operation of the device.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: DJ Cravens
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 11:58 am
Subject: RE: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
must be connected to the mains--bingo- if your process requires electrical
input
ted for ICCF Monday evening?
D2
Date: Tue, 4 Jun 2013 10:51:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
DJ Cravens wrote:
must be connected to the mains--bingo- if your process requires electrical
input you must hav
debunking cold fusion instead
of trying to enhance the effort. I have not totally given up on you yet and
perhaps one day you will see the light.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:26 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:22 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Portable generator is also fine and even better, because it leaves very little
room for tricks and
the day when you
fade away into the woodwork claiming that you were favoring the ECAT all along.
Your position is well established at this point.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:21 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe
DJ Cravens wrote:
must be connected to the mains--bingo- if your process requires
> electrical input you must have a high COP.
>
Where did that graph come from? Did you make it?
I have never heard of mechanical work from temperatures below 100 deg C.
By the way, I wrote: "These [low temp
, Jun 4, 2013 7:19 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
If the device cannotself-power, it is still valuable with a lower COP, the
proverbial hot water orspace heater -
A COP of 3 is not useful if the electricity was
: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Terry Blanton wrote:
Dr. Richard L. Garwin is alive and well and will likely live to have his tea.
If you believe Rothwell and Roberson, skeptics will never have to concede,
because no application of cold fusion is
heat conductive path of some kind.
[ a few here might be interested- I am presently trying to make a variable heat
path device using a concentric tube around a heat pipe with a ferro fluid
between- but then I am a much lower COP ]
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:15 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
There was a time when this field desperately needed a standalone self powered
reactor to prove the
only believe what I have seen adequately demonstrated. You would not believe
anything you see period. That is the difference between us.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:13 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:09 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:50 PM, David Roberson wrote:
It will take more than just a generator and an extension cord to close the
loop. Some form of energy storage
I wrote:
> No matter how difficult it is to control the thing at higher COPs, methods
> will be found, and then perfected.
>
This control problem only seems to be an issue with the high temperature
Hot Cat model. At moderate temperatures Rossi ran for long periods with
less input power, and a mu
Jones Beene wrote, regarding a COP of 3:
Wrong. The ECat at low gain would be valuable to the segment of the
> population whose only affordable alternative is a resistance space heater
> COP=1 versus LENR heater COP=3.
>
There are not many people like that in the first world. Most of them are i
cooling has not been
proven to work yet and may not work with the present design.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:06 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
I
Do you promise to accept the results if he uses one of these calorimeters? Why
do I think not?
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:07 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Jed Rothwell
Wrong. The ECat at low gain would be valuable to the segment of the
population whose only affordable alternative is a resistance space heater
COP=1 versus LENR heater COP=3. Next is the home electric water heater. For
them, net power for heat is cut by two thirds. DoE says space heating and
water h
Cude,
I was of the understanding that you have accepted the accuracy of the thermal
imaging output power measurement. Are you now returning to that lost cause?
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:03 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple
Try to be serious Cude. You know that you would find fault with any test
system regardless of its performance. Your record speaks for itself.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Joshua Cude
To: vortex-l
Sent: Tue, Jun 4, 2013 7:02 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe
, Jun 4, 2013 7:01 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:20 PM, David Roberson wrote:
The ECAT will need adjustment depending upon the environment into which it
operates. This is what should be expected.
Exactly, and controlled cooling provi
, Jun 4, 2013 7:00 am
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:01 PM, David Roberson wrote:
Dennis,
I don't think it would be quite so easy for Rossi to perform the experiment
that you propose.
It's amazing the excuses true believers c
Jouni Valkonen wrote:
> That is true. The risk for Levi is negligible and he can always claim
> ignorance.
>
The risk is that his reputation would be shattered. He would be forced to
retire at least.
> So If Levi is making few dozens of kiloeuros extra money with Rossi with
> very little eff
On Jun 4, 2013, at 2:26 PM, Joshua Cude wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>> Jouni Valkonen wrote:
>>
>>> Leading scam hypothesis does assume that Giuseppe Levi is a scammer and he
>>> is as bad as Rossi.
>>
> > So you are saying Levi wants to destroy his own re
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 9:29 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Jouni Valkonen wrote:
>
>
>> Leading scam hypothesis does assume that Giuseppe Levi is a scammer and
>> he is as bad as Rossi. And he brought most of the instruments.
>>
>
> I see. And these other co-authors are so stupid they do not even not
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 8:55 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> Nothing in the recent test was brought by Rossi. This test was a hands-off
> "black box" test, exactly what the skeptics have been demanding. It seems
> you will not take "yes" for an answer.
>
>
>
So much nonsense. The test was running wh
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 8:43 PM, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
>
> Portable generator is also fine and even better, because it leaves very
> little room for tricks and doubt. But after 10 or so demonstrations we have
> had only one portable generator and that also was brought by Rossi.
>
>
And it had the
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 8:36 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> WHY are you so certain that wattmeters do not work?!?
>
You know that's not the objection.
> There is no chance Rossi can fool one, and if the people doing the test
have any doubt about that, they can bring a portable generator.
Would
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 7:25 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> If it is real it is the most important advance in technology since the
> discovery of fire. If the scientific community is convinced it is real,
> every industrial corporation and university will be hard at work on this.
> ~$100 million per
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:57 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
>
> If the device cannot self-power, it is still valuable with a lower COP,
> the proverbial hot water or space heater -
>
A COP of 3 is not useful if the electricity was made with fossil fuels at
an efficiency of 1/3. That's a wash.
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 5:06 PM, Terry Blanton wrote:
>
> Dr. Richard L. Garwin is alive and well and will likely live to have his
> tea.
>
>
If you believe Rothwell and Roberson, skeptics will never have to concede,
because no application of cold fusion is obvious enough to make them
believe it.
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> There was a time when this field desperately needed a standalone self
> powered reactor to prove the reaction is real. That is because absolute
> power was low, ranging from 5 to 100 W. However, now that Rossi has
> developed high-powered re
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:36 PM, Mark Gibbs wrote:
>
>>
>>
> Indeed, making steam and using it to, say, drive a car across Italy
> without stopping would be pretty damn convincing.
>
>
>
Nice to see you can envision a demo that would convince skeptics.
Unfortunately the actual demos don't ever get
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:18 PM, David Roberson wrote:
>
>
> The best proof is one that has the least possibility of error.
>
Or the least possibility of error that favors the ecat, or the least
possibility of tampering. An isolated ecat eliminates input tampering. A
heated tank of water eliminat
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> I do not understand what you have in mind here. Nature allows us to do
> some things and not others. We have to work with what nature allows, not
> what we would wish for in an ideal universe.[...]
>
> Obviously with more engineering R&D a s
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:03 PM, DJ Cravens wrote:
> They only need to make their sponsors happy not Crude. I hope the best
> for them.
>
>
Hey, if you're referring to me, I'm with you all the way on the
self-sustaining water-tank heating demo. So the insult is particularly
hurtful.
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:50 PM, David Roberson wrote:
> It will take more than just a generator and an extension cord to close the
> loop. Some form of energy storage will be required to do the job.
>
>
>
To close the loop with electricity, probably yes. But if you used
controlled cooling, yo
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:46 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
>
> I have thought about that. During the initial warm up phase you would get
> an interesting result. After that, when it reaches a steady state, you
> would maintain the entire body of water at a certain temperature for weeks.
> The body (th
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> Flow calorimetry has much to be said for it but it is more complicated and
> less believable than this. A lot more can go wrong with it, and usually
> does go wrong with it for the first several weeks.
>
>
>
It is both more believable, wh
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:09 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
>
>
>> I still think that a standalone unplugged demo is the best approach - not
>> high wattage and fancy instruments and lots of wires and computer programs.
>>
>
> That would be nice, but evidently that would probably cause the reactor to
>
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> Extraordinary claims call for the most ordinary proof you can come up with.
>
>
>
That's true for true believers. For everyone else the usual saying
represents common sense, and the opinion of great thinkers from Pascal
through Sagan. I see
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 2:55 PM, Mark Gibbs wrote:
> Even though I'm still wearing my skeptic's hat (that's the one with the
> propeller on top) isn't the argument about the need for calorimetry made
> irrelevant the amount of energy observed to have been generated? In other
> words, even with mor
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:29 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> I have significant experience with flow calorimeters. I would say:
>
> 1. It would end up costing much more than a few hundred dollars.
>
True. But not more than 10k for an off-the-shelf unit. That sounds like a
bargain for what Rossi's doi
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:20 PM, David Roberson wrote:
>
> The ECAT will need adjustment depending upon the environment into which it
> operates. This is what should be expected.
>
>
>
Exactly, and controlled cooling provides a way to adjust it. Sitting in the
open air does not.
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:01 PM, David Roberson wrote:
> Dennis,
>
> I don't think it would be quite so easy for Rossi to perform the
> experiment that you propose.
>
It's amazing the excuses true believers contrive to explain why inferior
experiments were used. If the thing is to be useful, it s
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:00 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
>
> They used perfectly normal calorimetry.
>
Normal to me means common. But I have not seen calorimetry performed with
IR thermometry. Do you have some references for where it has been used?
> There is not the slightest chance output is
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 12:38 PM, James Bowery wrote:
> OK, I'll ask the question a different way:
>
> Is there any explanation offered, even if only in an interview, by the
> researchers as to why they did not use normal calorimetry?
>
>
>
In the December run, the experiment was already running
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 11:42 AM, James Bowery wrote:
> I've seen it claimed by a rather emotionally committed skeptic -- with
> some background in conducting CF runs with calorimetry -- that an adequate
> 19th century technology water-bath style calorimetry of the E-Cat HT would
> cost "a couple
A visual demonstration would impress the masses.
Use a real ecat and a dummy ecat with the same input power to inflate a
balloon
The real ecat will inflate the balloon faster.
Harry
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> DJ Cravens wrote:
>
> Notice I did not say flow calorime
I wrote:
I don't know what kind of thermal load the E-Cat can sustain, but I agree
> that dropping it into a backyard swimming pool for two weeks until the
> water starts boiling would be a pretty good publicity stunt. I don't
> actually have a sense how long it would take for the water to boil -
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 2:03 PM, DJ Cravens wrote:
You may want to refigure that if you want to run for extended times- an
> Olympic pool (likely overkill) has a volume of 2.5 million liters and some
> are indoors and have covers. ( I would just use bubble wrap) You could
> easily go long enough
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 7:51 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Jouni Valkonen wrote:
>
>>
>> How much money you are willing to bet? A couple hundred bucks maybe?
>>
>
> I never place bets.
>
***I do. It was my pleasure to put my money where my mouth was on Cold
Fusion and cash in. But, alas, Intrade ha
Jouni Valkonen wrote:
>
> How much money you are willing to bet? A couple hundred bucks maybe?
>
I never place bets.
I once had to spend a few weeks in Las Vegas installing computers in
casinos. I never spent a nickel in a slot machine.
Las Vegas is the worst place I have ever been to. I'd rat
On Jun 4, 2013, at 5:29 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> I think this "leading scam hypothesis" is far, far removed from reality.
>
How much money you are willing to bet? A couple hundred bucks maybe?
―Jouni
Jouni Valkonen wrote:
> Leading scam hypothesis does assume that Giuseppe Levi is a scammer and he
> is as bad as Rossi. And he brought most of the instruments.
>
I see. And these other co-authors are so stupid they do not even notice the
equipment is not working? Even though they calibrated th
Jones Beene wrote:
> There have been a handful of runaway reactions in 23 years. Very rare.
> There
> is no reliable evidence of infinite COP for more than a few hours, without
> runaway.
>
There have been many high COP runs lasting hours, and some heat after death
events lasting hours or days.
On Jun 4, 2013, at 4:55 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Jouni Valkonen wrote:
>
>> But after 10 or so demonstrations we have had only one portable generator
>> and that also was brought by Rossi.
>
> Nothing in the recent test was brought by Rossi. This test was a hands-off
> "black box" test, exa
From: Jed Rothwell
And yes, there is a significant qualitative difference
between COP of 6 and COP of 2.5 in terms of market value. The HotCat could
be on either end of that spectrum, based on what the last report indicated.
I am
Jouni Valkonen wrote:
> Portable generator is also fine and even better, because it leaves very
> little room for tricks and doubt.
Very little room? Where would this room be? I mean in real life.
> But after 10 or so demonstrations we have had only one portable generator
> and that also wa
On Jun 4, 2013, at 4:36 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> if the people doing the test have any doubt about that, they can bring a
> portable generator.
Portable generator is also fine and even better, because it leaves very little
room for tricks and doubt. But after 10 or so demonstrations we have h
James Bowery wrote:
Puts the shuttle disasters in perspective... ie: They weren't "disasters"
> -- they were more like "wrecks".
>
They were flight tests.
Those were prototypes. It turned out that was not a good design. See:
"Beam Me Out Of This Death Trap, Scotty"
http://www.washingtonmonth
-Original Message-
From: Jed Rothwell
To: vortex-l
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2013 9:36 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
Jouni Valkonen wrote:
However convincing proof, if that is desired, is just that ecat is made to do
real work while it is completely unplugged.
Yes. If
Jouni Valkonen wrote:
However convincing proof, if that is desired, is just that ecat is made to
> do real work while it is completely unplugged.
Yes. If they could do this without melting the machine it would be a good
idea. Since they already melted one, no one should doubt that will happen
a
Puts the shuttle disasters in perspective... ie: They weren't "disasters"
-- they were more like "wrecks".
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 7:40 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> David Roberson wrote:
>
>
>> It might take a little time for Rossi to gain total control over his
>> device. How would you like to
On Jun 3, 2013, at 10:55 PM, Mark Gibbs wrote:
> Even though I'm still wearing my skeptic's hat
Presenting skepticism is very healthy.
However convincing proof, if that is desired, is just that ecat is made to do
real work while it is completely unplugged. Simplest real work could be heating
David Roberson wrote:
> It might take a little time for Rossi to gain total control over his
> device. How would you like to have been the pilot of the first plane built
> by the Wright brothers?
>
As I recall the Wrights trained 12 pilots in 1908, and 10 were killed
within a year. Their first
Jones Beene wrote:
> And yes, there is a significant qualitative difference between COP of 6
> and COP of 2.5 in terms of market value. The HotCat could be on either end
> of that spectrum, based on what the last report indicated.
>
I am certain that you can have any COP you want with cold fusi
Mark Gibbs wrote:
> We're talking about Rossi's device and whether it works, not whether
> CF/LENR/LENR+/Pixie-Mediated-Power/Whatever is real.
>
If it is real it is the most important advance in technology since the
discovery of fire. If the scientific community is convinced it is real,
every
e and derivatives of it. Patience
is good.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Mark Gibbs
To: vortex-l
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2013 7:09 pm
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
Mark Gibbs wrote:
Ah, now we have it ... it&
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 7:08 PM, Mark Gibbs wrote:
> If Rossi can make devices that demonstrably and reliably work and don't blow
> up, he proves the E-Cat is real. If they reliably blow up, he's in the
> armaments business.
LOL! Proving the reaction to be HIGHLY OVER UNITY!
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 3:02 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> Mark Gibbs wrote:
>
> Ah, now we have it ... it's the questions of reproducability and
>> controlability,
>>
>
> But these questions have no bearing on whether the effect is real or not.
>
> We're talking about Rossi's device and whether it w
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 6:15 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:
> I'm hoping we can do something more dramatic, on a larger scale. Something
> like what the Japanese authorities did to the notorious criminal Ishikawa
> Goemon in 1594 would be ideal, but I guess that's out.
Raising the temperature a little b
From: Jed Rothwell
This would be nice. It would be a lot of fun. I personally would feel
gratified and pleased to see this. However, it would not convince a single
skeptic. They would simply say that all this equipment is fake or there is a
hidden wire or some other trick.
Frankly I
Jones Beene wrote:
> It would be nice to get Infinity Turbine to donate a few weeks of testing
> time on their ORC device which had been modified with a DC generator
> driving a bank of Ultracaps.
>
This would be nice. It would be a lot of fun. I personally would feel
gratified and pleased to s
Dave,
It would be nice to get Infinity Turbine to donate a few weeks of testing time
on their ORC device which had been modified with a DC generator driving a bank
of Ultracaps.
The caps would be sized so that there is maybe 15 minutes of cushion in the
energy storage – but no batteries
Terry Blanton wrote:
> Dr. Richard L. Garwin is alive and well and will likely live to have his
> tea.
>
I'm hoping we can do something more dramatic, on a larger scale. Something
like what the Japanese authorities did to the notorious criminal Ishikawa
Goemon in 1594 would be ideal, but I gues
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 4:07 PM, Alan Fletcher wrote:
> Unfortunately, I think that the person who made the "cup of tea" bet has
> passed on.
Dr. Richard L. Garwin is alive and well and will likely live to have his tea.
Mark Gibbs wrote:
Ah, now we have it ... it's the questions of reproducability and
> controlability,
>
But these questions have no bearing on whether the effect is real or not.
During the Vanguard era of US rocket development in the 1950s, rockets were
extremely difficult to reproduce and they
Mark Gibbs wrote:
> Indeed, making steam and using it to, say, drive a car across Italy
> without stopping would be pretty damn convincing.
>
Not really. The skeptics would come up with a hundred reasons why that was
faked. They would say this was actually two identical electric vehicles,
which
On Mon, Jun 3, 2013 at 1:22 PM, DJ Cravens wrote:
> yes, calorimetry is not needed IF you believe the claims, methods, and the
> effect.
>
The claims are that the device produces significantly over unity, the
methods have been alluded to but Rossi is definitely not public with this
and he may we
David Roberson wrote:
It will take more than just a generator and an extension cord to close the
> loop. Some form of energy storage will be required to do the job.
>
Correctomundo. This will complicate matters. It probably means they need
batteries and inverters. As sure as day follows night,
perhaps they were wrong in the beliefs. Not this group.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: DJ Cravens
To: vortex-l
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2013 5:03 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
You may want to refigure that if you want to run for extended times- an Olympic
pool (likely
DJ Cravens wrote:
You may want to refigure that if you want to run for extended times- an
> Olympic pool (likely overkill) has a volume of 2.5 million liters and some
> are indoors and have covers.
>
That would be extremely noisy, to say the least. Changes in air
temperature, humidity, sunlight,
DJ Cravens wrote:
That is not what I want to hear.
>
You do not want to hear that the cell will go out of control and melt? It
will though, whether you want to hear that or not. It has already melted.
I do not understand what you have in mind here. Nature allows us to do some
things and not
rs happy not Crude. I hope the best for them.
D2
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 16:46:12 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
DJ Cravens wrote:
Notice I did not say flow calorimetry was needed. Just heating a container o
I wrote:
>You do not need to measure flow rates if the effect is significant.
>>
>
> You don't need to measure it now. You have to depend on Drs. Stefan and
> Boltzmann being right. As for convection, you just gotta look up the
> numbers in an HVAC textbook.
>
I confused the issue a little h
Defkalion will be blowing steam. Who knows?
The last I heard Brillion was around 2:1 in liquid.
Perhaps it is time to step aside and let the commercial people do their thing.
D2
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 16:30:43 -0400
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
From: jedrothw...@gmail.com
To
It will take more than just a generator and an extension cord to close the
loop. Some form of energy storage will be required to do the job.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: Jones Beene
To: vortex-l
Sent: Mon, Jun 3, 2013 4:20 pm
Subject: RE: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe
DJ Cravens wrote:
Notice I did not say flow calorimetry was needed. Just heating a
> container of water - pool, spa, teapot
>
I have thought about that. During the initial warm up phase you would get
an interesting result. After that, when it reaches a steady state, you
would maintain the
DJ Cravens wrote:
> yes, calorimetry is not needed IF you believe the claims, methods, and the
> effect. As you may know, I don't doubt the reality of CF/LENR in general.
> However, if you goal is to convince "non-believer" then it is best to avoid
> systems where you have to know the exact wav
bob park
> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 13:16:16 -0700
> From: a...@well.com
> To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
> Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
>
> > Unfortunately, I think that the person who made the "cup of tea" bet
> > has passed on.
> > (My
> From: "DJ Cravens"
> Sent: Monday, June 3, 2013 1:22:05 PM
> And no, I don't think that they were over unity by more than an order
> of magnitude- Only a factor of perhaps 6. I need to go back and
> check that.
The COP was 6 (Dec) and 3 (March).
The order of magnitude was energy density over
Mark Gibbs wrote:
Even though I'm still wearing my skeptic's hat (that's the one with the
> propeller on top) isn't the argument about the need for calorimetry made
> irrelevant the amount of energy observed to have been generated?
>
Yes. But power, not energy. If the difference between input an
de- Only a factor of perhaps 6. I need to go back and check that.
D2
From: mgi...@gibbs.com
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2013 12:55:19 -0700
Subject: Re: [Vo]:A Couple Hundred Bucks Maybe...
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Even though I'm still wearing my skeptic's hat (that's the one with
The reputed gain is so high - Rossi would be wise to forego calorimetry and
go directly to conversion of heat to electricity.
Here is the device that could do that - ORC in a small format. This device
is perfect for the HotCat.
http://www.infinityturbine.com/ORC/IT10_ORC_System.html
> Unfortunately, I think that the person who made the "cup of tea" bet
> has passed on.
> (My forgetory will produce his name in about 10 minutes while I'm
> doing something else)
It wasn't tea .. it was a bet by a professor that would be paid off when a cold
fusion device delivered 1 kWh to the
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