Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice Hi All, I just wanted to give my opinion on how to make things more civil and gentle in general, and also to add clarity to the threads. As a non-English native speaker, there are many things I consider do not help at all in written discussions in general in any given

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

On Sun, Sep 13, 2020 at 7:46 AM Kunal Mehta wrote: > > > That is indeed unfortunate! It *used* to list explicit email addresses of > > the admins. I'll see if there's any setting that can be changed. > > This change was intentional, see > (presumably th

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Hi, On 2020-09-10 04:34, Asaf Bartov wrote: > On Thu, 10 Sep 2020, 14:05 Fæ wrote: >> Who are the list mods? > > The current list admins are John Vandenberg, Shani Evenstein, and I. > >> Unfortunately, this is not made clear at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l > > Th

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Hi All, I just wanted to give my opinion on how to make things more civil and gentle in general, and also to add clarity to the threads. As a non-English native speaker, there are many things I consider do not help at all in written discussions in general in any given list, most of the time when t

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 6:50 PM Dan Szymborski wrote: > As long as people are going to continue to talk about me and imply that I'm > actually *harassing* people, then I feel I have a right to defend myself. > Nobody ever denied you that right. I brought up that the UCoC standard is a reasonabl

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

If we didn't want serious discussions to come to this mailing list, or have discussions on it taken seriously, this thread would so far be a great example for not doing so. Thankfully, it won't actually succeed in derailing the discussions. - d. ___ Wi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

As long as people are going to continue to talk about me and imply that I'm actually *harassing* people, then I feel I have a right to defend myself. No, clear warnings weren't given. I compared the action of a *non-profit board* tangentially to *flatulence* and I was immediately talked down to an

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

This is all so predictably tiresome. Any attempt to center a discussion forum on its intended purpose is hijacked by people outraged that they are deprived of their own personal soapboxes. I see this matter is spilling over into multiple threads. I propose that objectors start a new thread to di

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Hi, On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 4:08 AM effe iets anders wrote: > I would love us to be more gentle, but at the same time it is also > important to recognize diversity in character, expression and opinion. Well, precisely? :) "To recognize diversity in character, expression and opinion" is cruci

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Lukas Mezger Sent: 10 September 2020 20:30 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice Hello, As one of the list subscribers who contacted the list

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Hi Lukas, I appreciate you opening up on this. I have a hard time following the line of argument. I can appreciate that it can be stressful to see someone generalize opposition to this extent, and I dont think it is helpful to the conversation, because it basically rejects all solutions out of han

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

I'd like to thank the list administrators for: * their transparency in handling this moderation request * the clarity in describing how to and how not to criticize * for not banning Dan but patiently giving clear guidelines While I don't find Dan's language as offensive as to be banworthy, it is a

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Hello, As one of the list subscribers who contacted the list moderators about the messages in question, please let me second the sentiment that this list should welcome discourse that is honest and frank while remaining constructive and civil. Being subscribed to this list can be stressful for som

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Is the objection to the words he used or to the way he used them? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Asaf Bartov Sent: 09 September 2020 21:57 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

You read my mind... P -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Gnangarra Sent: 10 September 2020 13:50 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice one measure of good judgement would those decline the

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

, > Peter > > -Original Message- > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > Behalf > Of Asaf Bartov > Sent: 10 September 2020 12:55 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice > > I would say first and f

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice I would say first and foremost, good judgment. As measured by the person's track record on-wiki and on this list. Preferring to err on the side of caution, people under community sanctions, or who have themselves been moderated for on

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

gt; Asaf, > > > What are the criteria for eligibility as moderator for this list? > > > Cheers, > > > Peter > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > > > Behalf >

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

> Peter > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On > > Behalf > > Of Asaf Bartov > > Sent: 10 September 2020 11:07 > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] M

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Sent: 10 September 2020 11:07 > To: Wikimedia Mailing List > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice > > Indeed, there is a potential conflict of interest here. This is why I > strongly tend to leniency, *especially* when unacceptable discourse > coincides with criticism of the Found

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Asaf, What are the criteria for eligibility as moderator for this list? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Asaf Bartov Sent: 10 September 2020 11:07 To: Wikimedia Mailing List Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

I'd be happy to help out. I have set up and managed several lists related to our Wikimedia LGBT+ community. As a well-known commentator about the WMF and safe spaces, including running a global RFC that held to account a WMF board member, it might add a useful perceived balance to moderation rathe

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Hello Asaf I am a list administrator in at least 5 Wikimedia mailing lists and I believe I have the relevant experience in this area. I'd be happy to help out if you need more hands. Regards Isaac On Thu, 10 Sep 2020, 10:08 Asaf Bartov, wrote: > Indeed, there is a potential conflict of inter

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Indeed, there is a potential conflict of interest here. This is why I strongly tend to leniency, *especially* when unacceptable discourse coincides with criticism of the Foundation. In this case, we received requests from two list subscribers to moderate Dan. We did so, while underscoring that i

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Is there a record somewhere of what unacceptable language was used and against what standard it was judged to be unacceptable? Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-boun...@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Asaf Bartov Sent: 09 September 2020 21:57 To: Wik

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Hello Todd, The notice was sent by Asaf on behalf of the list administrators. That is, he only communicated the decision of the list administrators and may not have directly participated in the discussion that resulted in the decision to moderate Dan. I am not sure this mailing list administratio

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Erm, wait. He said what, "fart"? It's not a particularly good look for a WMF employee to be moderating someone critiquing the WMF, especially when, while their statement may have been strongly worded, it used pretty mild language. This should either be undone, or at least decided upon by someone w

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice: Gerard Meijssen

Asaf, Thank you for notifying the list. I have read Gerard's posts to this list since 2007, and it's a safe bet that his thousands of messages make him the single most prolific contributor to this list since it was created. I appreciate that the moderators felt compelled to act, but I find the ult

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

FYI, and to finish this matter off for the list: "Not on my watch. I have no access to past conversations so cannot comment on the conversation you say you have had with list admins in the past..." says Asaf. I furnished Asaf with verbatim copies of the relevant emails that he may be confident

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

On Mon, Mar 6, 2017 at 11:20 AM Trillium Corsage wrote: > >> As always, he is (and other > >> moderated users are) welcome to submit posts to the list before then, > and > >> if the posts are respectful and on-topic, they would be let through. > > That has not been my experience. In fact the last

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 11:56 AM Asaf Bartov wrote: >\ >> It's okay that some people disagree with this moderation action (others >> agree, even if they do not say so on-list). This list is not moderated by >> whole-list-consensus. ... >> Gerard will be unmoderated on March 1st. As always, he

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

As promised, Gerard has been unmoderated, FYI. A. On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 11:56 AM Asaf Bartov wrote: > It's okay that some people disagree with this moderation action (others > agree, even if they do not say so on-list). This list is not moderated by > whole-list-consensus. > > I have prov

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

It's okay that some people disagree with this moderation action (others agree, even if they do not say so on-list). This list is not moderated by whole-list-consensus. I have provided the reason for moderation, without going into details. To do so would be to invite drama, which moderation exist

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

There are words in other languages that have a rude, upleasant, disrespectful or pejorative meaning in British English. For an amusing list of examples, see the Oxford Dictionary blog at http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2016/02/words-that-sound-rude/ I presume that I'm entitled to be complain w

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Same in French... Le 13/02/2017 à 12:35, John Erling Blad a écrit : It is common to refer to those that cooperated with the Nazis during WWII as "kollaboratører" (kollaborators) in Norwegian too. https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kollaborat%C3%B8r Translating between languages are fun! =) John 13

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

It is common to refer to those that cooperated with the Nazis during WWII as "kollaboratører" (kollaborators) in Norwegian too. https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kollaborat%C3%B8r Translating between languages are fun! =) John 13. feb. 2017 09.08 skrev "Jane Darnell" : … The only disrespectful thin

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Believe me, I hear you! On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 10:22 AM, Austin Hair wrote: > On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Jane Darnell wrote: > > When I first read this I didn't think twice about it, because Gerard has > > often gone over the 30 message limit, so nothing new. But after reading > > later

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Calling that anyone who does not want a banner = someone who does not care for our colleagues, is very very disrespectful. That is way beyond the line of what can be accepted. Romaine Op maandag 13 februari 2017 heeft Jane Darnell het volgende geschreven: > When I first read this I didn't thi

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 8:01 AM, Jane Darnell wrote: > When I first read this I didn't think twice about it, because Gerard has > often gone over the 30 message limit, so nothing new. But after reading > later comments I see that he was disrespectful? I don't think so. I checked > and indeed he di

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

When I first read this I didn't think twice about it, because Gerard has often gone over the 30 message limit, so nothing new. But after reading later comments I see that he was disrespectful? I don't think so. I checked and indeed he didn't go over his limit in January. The only disrespectful thin

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

On 11 February 2017 at 21:18, Michael Peel wrote: >> asaf, you are one of the most respected dinosaurs in this universe, > Which species of dinosaur? Wikisourus, of course. -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk ___ Wikimedia-l

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

> On 11 Feb 2017, at 19:08, rupert THURNER wrote: > > On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Asaf Bartov wrote: >> Hello, everyone. >> >> I share the opinion that moderation actions should be transparent. So: >> >> I have now placed Gerard Meijssen on moderation. He has been posting very >> freque

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 7:49 PM, Asaf Bartov wrote: > Hello, everyone. > > I share the opinion that moderation actions should be transparent. So: > > I have now placed Gerard Meijssen on moderation. He has been posting very > frequently to the list, far exceeding the requested "soft limit" of 30

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

In the interests of clarity, does the soft limit apply by calendar month? I don’t think Gerard is disrespectful so much as brusque in his communication style. Perhaps this is due to communicating in what is for him a foreign language. Cheers, Peter -Original Message- From: Wikimedia-l [m

Re: [Wikimedia-l] Moderation notice

Gerard, ... he has good points too, even if he is stubborn like a mule - like the rest og us! ;) 11. feb. 2017 19.49 skrev "Asaf Bartov" : > Hello, everyone. > > I share the opinion that moderation actions should be transparent. So: > > I have now placed Gerard Meijssen on moderation. He has bee