On Wed, 8 Dec 2004 10:54:54 +1300, Andy Kirkwood | MOTIVE
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Been following the breadcrumb (BC) discussion, and think it may come
> down to defining the *purpose* of the BC. Through a process of
> distillation I've arrived at the following conclusions;
>
> The ('correct')
Been following the breadcrumb (BC) discussion, and think it may come
down to defining the *purpose* of the BC. Through a process of
distillation I've arrived at the following conclusions;
The ('correct') semantic markup of a BC should be based on what the
BC primarily 'means'.
There is the dis
Breadcrumbs can be difficult, especially in a "dynamic" or "database driven
site, to apply correctly.
Of course other issues crop up when using dynamic sites also (search engine
safe URL's for example).
I've been using ColdFusion for over 9 years and standards - while not
specific to CF - are in
Paul Farrell wrote:
Gday,
Am I correct in understanding that an ordered list is the best way of
marking up a breadcrumb system that shows where a user has been ?
And that an unordered list is appropriate for a breadcrumb (for the lack of
a more appropriate term) system that shows a users' position
Mordechai Peller wrote on 06/12/2004 09:41:20 PM:
> Patrick Lauke wrote:
>
> >...and discussing the finer points of semantics in a markup
> language as coarse and unsuitable as HTML ends up being a tad futile
> >
> Futile? Perhaps sometimes. Though I must admit, when there is a good
> reason to
At the risk of getting this started up again... (I tend to read my WSG
emails in a batch every day or so.)
Mordechai Peller wrote on 06/12/2004 09:31:41 PM:
> If breadcrumbs show where you are in the site you get:
> Level 1 > Level 2 > Level 3 > Level 4 > Level 5
>
> If, on the other had, they
mbers.
all the best,
Lisa
-Original Message-
From: Kevin Futter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 07, 2004 8:44 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs
On 6/12/04 9:31 PM, "Mordechai Peller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
On 6/12/04 9:31 PM, "Mordechai Peller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Time to call a truce?
>>
> I am unwilling to change my view as I've seen no reason to do so; in
> fact, I believe even more strongly now in what I'm saying that I did
> when this discussion began. If you want to leave it at
Well, I thought it was over, so I didn't send this link. But, since it's not quite, here's a link to several others that might interest some...
http://user-experience.org/uefiles/breadcrumbs/
Best regards,
Marilyn Langfeld
http://www.langfeldesigns.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
+1.301.598.3300 business
Mordechai, I too enjoy splitting hairs. I hope no one objects to my
chiming in.
Breadcrumbs are a construct without a solid definition, from which I
think much disagreement arises. Typically, they reflect the notional
path to a page (the "path" according to where the user believes
themselves t
Patrick Lauke wrote:
...and discussing the finer points of semantics in a markup language as coarse
and unsuitable as HTML ends up being a tad futile
Futile? Perhaps sometimes. Though I must admit, when there is a good
reason to do so (what's a "good reason" is admittedly subjective) I find
spli
Kevin Futter wrote:
"Less important" doesn't mean "not important."
Exactly, which is why I didn't say "not important" ...
...which is a reason why it is unlike a sentence. The words of a
sentence need their organization within the sentence to be useful.
You can slice it and dice it however y
> From: Natalie Buxton
> This discussion has finally convinced me that breadcrumb trails should
> not be marked up as lists.
>
> Without the entire path, it doesn't matter where the actual href goes.
>
> For instance: I tell a user that the file they want is in the folder
> "widgets". They go l
On 6/12/04 4:04 PM, "Mordechai Peller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kevin Futter wrote:
> "Less important" doesn't mean "not important."
Exactly, which is why I didn't say "not important" ...
>
>> And therein lies the rub: lists are one-dimensional, as you yourself point
>> out
>> elsewhere; b
Kevin Futter wrote:
I see breadcrumbs as a complete unit - just as a file path is a complete unit;
take out a component and you render it useless.
Breadcrumbs and sentences are both whole units, but units of what? Since
their component parts are of a different nature, the resulting mark-up
shoul
> -Original Message-
> From: Kevin Futter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, 6 December 2004 3:29 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs
> And therein
> lies the rub: lists are one-dimensional, as you yourself point out
> elsewh
This discussion has finally convinced me that breadcrumb trails should
not be marked up as lists.
Without the entire path, it doesn't matter where the actual href goes.
For instance: I tell a user that the file they want is in the folder
"widgets". They go looking for their file in c:/widgets.
B
I now need the semantic markup for the can of worms I've opened. ;)
> Rick Faaberg wrote:
>
> >If you leave any "nodes" out, you've lost your way.
> >
> That's because your missing information; however, each
> individual link is unchanged.
>
> Again, a word isn't very useful outside the context
Rick Faaberg wrote:
If you leave any "nodes" out, you've lost your way.
That's because your missing information; however, each individual link
is unchanged.
Again, a word isn't very useful outside the context of a sentence,
however a link is just as useful.
--
No virus found in this outgoing me
On 6/12/04 2:23 PM, "Mordechai Peller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kevin Futter wrote:
>
>> Yes, breadcrumb elements are strongly related in exactly the same way that
>> sentence elements (i.e. words) are; and sentences can be rendered with
>> precise meaning even if some words are omitted (prep
On 12/5/04 7:53 PM "Mordechai Peller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> sent this out:
> List aren't two-dimensional, they're one-dimensional, but bent through
> two dimensions. Just as the surface of a ball is only two-dimensional,
> yet it's bent into three dimensions.
Home -> News -> Today's News -> Summary
Andreas Boehmer [Addictive Media] wrote:
Mordechai, according to your explanation a breadcrumb is not a list, as you
cannot simply take any of the items out of a breadcrumb. Each item in a
breadcrumb is closely related to the preceeding item.
Except I also said "the order of an ordered list imparts
Kevin Futter wrote:
Yes, breadcrumb elements are strongly related in exactly the same way that
sentence elements (i.e. words) are; and sentences can be rendered with
precise meaning even if some words are omitted (prepositions, conjunctions,
most adverbs, many adjectives).
Not at all in the same wa
On 6/12/04 11:09 AM, "Mordechai Peller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Kevin Futter wrote:
>
>> I don't buy the argument that breadcrumbs *have to be* structured as lists.
>> Why? Because they're not a collection of loosely-related list items, like a
>> shopping list or such; rather, a unit of brea
t; > -Original Message-
> > From: Mordechai Peller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Monday, 6 December 2004 11:10 AM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs
> >
> > A sentence isn't a collection of related item because eac
> -Original Message-
> From: Mordechai Peller [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, 6 December 2004 11:10 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [WSG] Semantic Breadcrumbs
>
> A sentence isn't a collection of related item because each word is
> dependen
Kevin Futter wrote:
I don't buy the argument that breadcrumbs *have to be* structured as lists.
Why? Because they're not a collection of loosely-related list items, like a
shopping list or such; rather, a unit of breadcrumbs collectively delineates
a *path* to a resource (without resorting to conve
On 6/12/04 10:12 AM, "Jonathan T. Sage" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think for this argument, I would go towards the analogy of driving
> directions.
>
> 1.) Go to the Home page
> 2.) go the the sub-section etc.
>
> Just my thought.
>
> As for your comment about sentences as lists, ever
I think for this argument, I would go towards the analogy of driving
directions.
1.) Go to the Home page
2.) go the the sub-section etc.
Just my thought.
As for your comment about sentences as lists, everybody knows that a
sentence isn't a list. It needs to be a graphic since it's reall
On 6/12/04 5:32 AM, "Mordechai Peller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Richard Spence wrote:
>
>> In my opinion a simple string of would work just fine. The
>> information that you are trying to display is not really a list.
>
> I strongly disagree. Breadcrumbs are most definitely a list of links
I asked this question on WSG before and there was some interesting options.
http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg@webstandardsgroup.org/msg08838.html
Regards
Gavin
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgro
Richard Spence wrote:
In my opinion a simple string of would work just fine. The
information that you are trying to display is not really a list.
I strongly disagree. Breadcrumbs are most definitely a list of links;
they're even normally represented as a horizontal list. A list,
according to "
Patrick Lauke wrote:
From: Paul Farrell
Am I correct in understanding that an ordered list is the best way of
marking up a breadcrumb system that shows where a user has been ?
For my own part, I'd say yes (as the steps are in order, and the order
is important)...but other people may ha
At 04:17 PM 12/3/04, Richard Spence wrote:
In my opinion a simple string of would work just fine. The
information that you are trying to display is not really a list. So a
string of anchor links in a paragraph or span would work the best.
1) Homey thatched cottage with warm hearth
2) Known fr
On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 17:17:19 -0700, Richard Spence wrote:
> In my opinion a simple string of would work just fine. The
> information that you are trying to display is not really a list. So
> a string of anchor links in a paragraph or span would work the best.
One of the reasons people don't u
Yeah, I think I am leaning that way.
In my case I will be using a breadcrumb as 'Where You Are' rather than 'How
You Got Here'.
I maybe thinking along the wrong lines... But unstyled markup would appear
more intuitive (to me) as a string of links separated, for example, by a '>'
symbol. I guess i
Paul Farrell wrote:
Gday,
Am I correct in understanding that an ordered list is the best way of
marking up a breadcrumb system that shows where a user has been ?
And that an unordered list is appropriate for a breadcrumb (for the lack of
a more appropriate term) system that shows a users' position
> From: Paul Farrell
> Am I correct in understanding that an ordered list is the best way of
> marking up a breadcrumb system that shows where a user has been ?
For my own part, I'd say yes (as the steps are in order, and the order
is important)...but other people may have other ideas of what is
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