John W. Redelfs wrote:
>
>
-Harold-
> It's also true that there is a limited number of times one can
> repent of adultery.
-JWR-
> I've heard this before, but I was challenged on it by the wife
> of our mission president. I tried to prove the "three times and
> you are out" rule, and I was una
Harold Stuart wrote:
It's also true that there is a limited number of times one can repent of
adultery. Clearly the atonement is not a blank check to commit sin.
I've heard this before, but I was challenged on it by the wife of our
mission president. I tried to prove the "three times and you ar
On Nov 4, 2003, at 7:47 PM, George Cobabe wrote:
Ron, You may be right. As a matter of fact I agree with you.
However, Elder Nelson does not. He says that God's love is
conditional upon
righteousness.
I think this is a difficult point.
Certain aspects of God's love are without question uncond
The book GOSPEL PRINCIPLES is the correlated manual for the Gospel
Essentials Sunday School class. Primarily, it elaborates upon and
reinforces those things that new investigators were taught as "official
Church doctrine" by our missionaries. I have a question for George:
George, do you think
What you say here is true, John. It is so easy to go further, as some do,
and suggest that they are the ones that know thre real truth about so many
other doctrines that you have not mentioned. And that is where the problem
is often found.
I do not think you are unwise, in fact I think that decl
Ron, You may be right. As a matter of fact I agree with you.
However, Elder Nelson does not. He says that God's love is conditional upon
righteousness.
In conference yet
George
- Original Message -
From: "Ron Scott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
Still, God has seen fit to represent his feeling as hatred, so I don't
think we have much business telling him he's wrong. In any case, I don't
find God's hatred of the wicked to be a particularly ennobling concept, so
I don't spend much time dwelling on it.
Well, I will
From GOSPEL PRINCIPLES:
What Kind of Being Is God?
Because we are made in his image (see Moses 6:9), we know that God has a
body that looks like ours. His eternal spirit is housed in a tangible body
of flesh and bones (see D&C 130:22). God's body, however, is perfected and
glorified, with a gl
On Wed, 5 Nov 2003 01:24:17 + Stephen Beecroft
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
For some reason, this topic generates a great deal of emotion in
> people on both sides of the issue. I fail to understand why, even in
> myself, such emotions arise.
Because we ALL know that Father loves you mo
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 21:32:33 -0500 Ron Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > -Original Message-
> > From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 8:18 PM
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: [ZION] Is God's Love Unconditional?
> >SNIP< God's lov
On Tue, 4 Nov 2003 13:04:15 -0500 Ron Scott <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Dear Val:
>
> Thanks for asking, Val. I still have your booklet around here, in my
> files. I'm glad the poems proved of use, of comfort to you. What
happened
> to your husband?
After several "mini-strokes" that totally
Ron Scott wrote:
Finally, recall that Christ's unconditional love for us -- his grace --
guarantees all of us eternal life. What kind of eternal life we are given
depends on His assessment of our faithfulness.
I hope this is clearer than the earlier post.
It is clearer, Ron. I agree that we agree.
-JWR-
> I went looking for some scriptural evidence that God ever hates
> any of his children, and my cursory survey did not turn up
> anything. Am I missing something? Surely God hates wickedness,
> but does he hate the wicked? He hates sin, but does he hate
> sinners? Perhaps you could point
> -Original Message-
> From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:29 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [ZION] Is God's Love Unconditional?
>
>
> Ron Scott wrote:
> >There is a current piece in Ensign that confuses "unconditional love" and
George Cobabe wrote:
In my opinion, there are many Latter-day Saints who do not understand how
unloving and even cruel it is to teach false doctrine.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
John, it is equally cruel to teach that the only true doctrine is the one
and the way you u
Ron Scott wrote:
There is a current piece in Ensign that confuses "unconditional love" and
"blessing." Actually, I think the current piece confuses grace/faith/works.
God's love is unconditional, according to Hinckley (many sources). But, the
blessing/rewards are very conditional up faithfulness.
> -Original Message-
> From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 8:18 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [ZION] Is God's Love Unconditional?
>SNIP<
> God's love is certainly unconditional in the sense that he loves all his
> children, probab
Apparently Elder Nelson himself has spoken of God's "unconditional love" in
General Conference. Heh, heh. I wonder if he was aware of that when he
wrote his article for the February 2003 ENSIGN.
"Godliness characterizes each of you who truly loves the Lord. You are
constantly mindful of the S
In my opinion, there are many Latter-day Saints who do not understand how
unloving and even cruel it is to teach false doctrine.
John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED]
John, it is equally cruel to teach that the only true doctrine is the one
and the way you understand it. There
Stephen Beecroft wrote:
Then I suggest the scriptures also "mix up" these two concepts, because
divine blessings are consistently represented as an indication of God's
love, while divine cursings or divine deafness evidences God's
disinclination toward or hatred of a people.
As you no doubt already
-Ron-
> God's love is unconditional, according to Hinckley (many sources).
What are some of those sources?
For some reason, this topic generates a great deal of emotion in people
on both sides of the issue. I fail to understand why, even in myself,
such emotions arise. The quality of God's lo
Ron Scott wrote:
As I said, you getting the two concepts mixed up. You're making synoymns of
"unconditional love" and "divine blessings." So did Elder Nelson. You'd
better careful who you're calling anti-Christ JWR for you're about to
violate your own bylaws (grin)
I don't believe that I hav
Ron Scott wrote:
There is a current piece in Ensign that confuses "unconditional love" and
"blessing." Actually, I think the current piece confuses grace/faith/works.
God's love is unconditional, according to Hinckley (many sources). But, the
blessing/rewards are very conditional up faithfulness.
> -Original Message-
> From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 7:03 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [ZION] Is God's Love Unconditional?
>
>
> In the February ENSIGN, Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of
> the Twelve
> wrote an article i
In the February ENSIGN, Elder Russell M. Nelson of the Quorum of the Twelve
wrote an article in which he stated unequivocally that God's love is NOT
unconditional. It is divine, and it is infinite, but it is very much
conditional upon repentance and obedience to divine law. In the article,
El
Tom Matkin wrote:
>
> 25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
> ---
>
> Now just exactly what do these verses mean? How do they apply to me?
How
> should I "liken" them unto myself? What exactly is the Lord warning
us
> against? Am I supposed to do something? What?
Just off the top I'd say
>
> 25 Wo be unto him that crieth: All is well!
> ---
>
> Now just exactly what do these verses mean? How do they apply to me?
How
> should I "liken" them unto myself? What exactly is the Lord warning
us
> against? Am I supposed to do something? What?
Just off the top I'd say don't cry "All
John:
It was a tease, honest. I know I have to mind my Ps and Qs around you,
because you know my stake president way too well -- The Desert Rat who
couldn't stand the bone-chilling cold of New England, but inexplicably
acclimated well to Alaska. Go figure.
Ron
P.S. Did I ever tell you that Br
Well, there is one nice thing about getting old: auto insurance. I just
bought some today, and I was impressed with how inexpensive it is compared
with what it has been in years past. Of course, my teenaged son just moved
out. That might be part of the reason.
John W. Redelfs
Ron Scott wrote:
Yes, I'm still in Boston. Temple is built. I haven't been in it. And, I
don't know how long I'll be around on Zion: we seem ill-suited for each
other. I can not imagine why JWR asked me back. Perhaps he has something
perverse up his sleeve. Ya think?
There is no mystery, Ron.
Dear Val:
Thanks for asking, Val. I still have your booklet around here, in my files.
I'm glad the poems proved of use, of comfort to you. What happened to your
husband?
Yes, I'm still in Boston. Temple is built. I haven't been in it. And, I
don't know how long I'll be around on Zion: we seem i
Ron Scott wrote:
> Well, I guess I'll just have to love you into seeing what I see
> about false
> churches.
>
> Missing Elder McConkie,
> John W. Redelfs
Thank goodness for living prophets.
You couldn't have said it any better, Ron. You are a good man. --JWR
>
> Tom, I like the way you think. Although, all things considered, I'd
like
> to
> think President Hinckley argues to be in the world, but not of it.
Which
> is
> not a bad place to be if you can do it.
>
> Ron
I agree with that, but I was obliquely referencing the exhortation in
Moroni 10:
3
> -Original Message-
> From: John W. Redelfs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 12:03 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ZION] Cognitive Dissonance
>
>
> Tom Matkin wrote:
> >So what's the best way to influence a free agent. Love him. Remember my
> >own
> -Original Message-
> From: Tom Matkin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 8:39 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ZION] Cognitive Dissonance
>
>
>
> ->
> > But the Book of Mormon is still the Word of God, right? --JWR
>
> Yes. And it tells us all ab
> -Original Message-
> From: Ronn! Blankenship [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 6:32 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [ZION] Cognitive Dissonance
>
>
> At 04:19 AM 11/4/03 -0700, Tom Matkin wrote:
>
> >I wish I could say that this malopropism was in
> -Original Message-
> From: Steven Montgomery [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 8:31 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: [ZION] Wish List
>
>
> At 02:52 PM 11/3/2003, you wrote:
> > >
> > > Yes, I had heard. In fact, I resubbed to Zion a while ago to exp
Tom Matkin wrote:
So what's the best way to influence a free agent. Love him. Remember my
own mantra, whatever the question, the answer is love. I think President
Hinckley operates like that.
Well, I guess I'll just have to love you into seeing what I see about false
churches.
Missing Elder M
First off, we have to be careful not to assume, or read things into scripture. The
scriptures you cite do not say that All churches are evil and corrupt. It states that
there are some that are corrupt and seek to sway people away from goodness and Christ.
Do all churches have false creeds and i
->
> But the Book of Mormon is still the Word of God, right? --JWR
Yes. And it tells us all about the sons of Mosiah doesn't it? How they
received
a great promise of safety from the Lord for their mission of love and
service and how
they enjoyed miraculous success among a lost and fallen pe
At 02:52 PM 11/3/2003, you wrote:
>
> Yes, I had heard. In fact, I resubbed to Zion a while ago to express
my
> condolences. I figured if we were making a "wish" list, though, I
could
> wish as I wished...
>
> Stephen
Well, if that's how we are wishing
I'll bet Oliver Cowdery would be an int
John-- I have to take exception to your comments, and need to ponder this
passage of scripture a bit more, for neither fit my experience with my
previous church. the Presbyterian Church did nothing but prepare me to
accept the fullness of the Gospel when I heard it. maybe I was not
diligent enou
At 11:19 AM 11/3/2003, you wrote:
-Steven-
> I think highly of you too. Are you sure you don't want to
> reconsider and be a part of ZION again?
Steven, I'm flattered that you even remember me. My good friend John
has asked that I return, as well. Guess he thought there wasn't enough
bickering on
Tom, you crack me up! And I thought false churches were a problem. Maybe
the problem is all us monkeys here below. --JWR
Tom Matkin wrote:
Top ten reasons why I'm grateful not to be working in New Delhi
10.Those pesky monsoons.
9. Those pesky cows.
8. What those pesky cows l
Tom Matkin wrote:
Without digging into my scriptures for the exact quotes, consider the
actions of the sons of Mosiah going to serve and live among the Lamanites in
a spirit of love and sacrifice. Talk about cognitive dissidence. Do you
think their friends, both the ones they had when they were a
Don't forget to vote early and vote often.
Till
--
My absentee ballot was sent over a week ago. Unfortuately, I
will have no real say in who becomes mayor of the fair city of
Savannah. There will almost definitely be a run-off and Georgia
law (or perhaps Chatham County, but probably Ge
Don't forget to vote early and vote often.
Till
//
/// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at ///
/// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html ///
///
At 04:19 AM 11/4/03 -0700, Tom Matkin wrote:
I wish I could say that this malopropism was intentional. But I'm typing in
the dark here at 4:00 a.m. and the spell checker kept telling me to change
Lamanites to laminates
That's what happens when a Native American with Jewish ancestry is working
At 11:55 PM 11/3/2003 +, Ron wrote:
Didn't know I was a foil. But, if I wasn't a kosher kind of guy I could
go for a BLT. What is a BLT, anyway?
BTW, Elmer, my youngest is dancing the Nutcracker.
Don't know why JWR recruited me, but I've never known an invitation I
didn't accept, especially
Tom wrote:
Talk about cognitive dissidence.
Tom comments:
I wish I could say that this malopropism was intentional. But I'm typing in
the dark here at 4:00 a.m. and the spell checker kept telling me to change
Lamanites to laminates and that's all I was thinking about at the time and
this got b
Top ten reasons why I'm grateful not to be working in New Delhi
10.Those pesky monsoons.
9. Those pesky cows.
8. What those pesky cows leave behind.
7.One word. Curry.
6.Plodding elephants in the bus lane.
5.Plodding elephants in the commuter lane.
4.
- Original Message -
From: "John W. Redelfs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 12:39 AM
Subject: [ZION] Cognitive Dissonance
> Esperanza and I were reading the Book of Mormon this evening and I came
> upon a chapter that just doesn't seem to har
JWR:
---
Hate the sin and love the sinner. I understand that. But why do I have
to be accepting of a false church in order to be loving towards its
deluded, lied to, and oppressed members?
I can love a Catholic without loving his church. The same goes for a
Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyteria
Esperanza and I were reading the Book of Mormon this evening and I came
upon a chapter that just doesn't seem to harmonize with current list and
Church attitudes towards other churches. Aren't we supposed to "liken" the
scriptures unto ourselves? Sometimes it is pretty hard.
---
2 Nephi Chapt
A couple more verses from 2 Nephi 28 that cause me discomfort:
21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that
they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well and
thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down
to hell.
55 matches
Mail list logo
