On Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009, jeroen De Dauw wrote: > Although the third option is entirely possible, and probably will work just > as well as when placing the form inputs to SM or SRF, I really doubt this > is good practice. It's kind of just throwing the code into one of the > extension's dependencies, which has quite frankly nothing do do with the > code, and then not bothering it any further since the code gets loaded > where it's needed. So I'd go only for this approach as a last resort. > > I also wouldn't let the fact that this is ANOTHER extension affect any > design decisions. After all, there already are a lot, so one more won't > hurt. Furthermore, Maps and Semantic Maps are in themselves bundling quite > some functionality (just look at how many map related extensions there are > out there), and so actually reducing the number of relevant extensions to > choose from. And when ready, I suppose it can be added to Semantic Bundle > and replace SGM and GG that are currenly in it. > > One more point for keeping SM seperate is that in the future functionallity > that is not suited to be in SRF might be added. If the code is in SRF, that > can hamper the developement of such code, since it'l then be more difficult > to get SM seperate again.
I am convinced. (Never question the judgement of the original developer and future maintainer ;-) In any case, please put it on SVN and get translatewiki.net support. I can also add it to the online API doc once it is in SVN. -- Markus > > > Cheers, > De Dauw '[RTS]BN+VS*' Jeroen > > > Forum: code.bn2vs.com > Blog: blog.bn2vs.com > > Xfire: bn2vs ; Skype: rts.bn.vs > > Don't panic. Don't be evil. > 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 6D 69 6E 67 20 34 20 6C 69 66 65! > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Sergey Chernyshev <sergey.chernys...@gmail.com> > To: Yaron Koren <yaro...@gmail.com> > Cc: mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org; semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net; > jeroen De Dauw <jeroen_ded...@yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009 > 4:54:40 PM > Subject: Re: [SMW-devel] Maps and Semantic Maps > > Actually, third options is OK - it just tells the system that "if SF is > enabled, here's additional functionality for it". > > This way, it can be SRF + Maps and that's it, right? Do you think there > will be other feature in the future that can go into "Semantic Maps" that > will go beyond being either part of Maps or SRF? If not, then making it > just Maps + SRF might be a good idea - this will definitely will increase > distribution. After all, how many "Semantic *" extensions can we have? ;) > > Thank you, > > Sergey > > > -- > Sergey Chernyshev > http://www.sergeychernyshev.com/ > > On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Yaron Koren <yaro...@gmail.com> wrote: > >Let me first comment that I don't think translation/internationalization > > is an issue either way - translatewiki.net already handles dozens of > > extensions, and more are always being added; for them to add another > > extension to the set is trivial, and the translators do an excellent job > > of taking care of new values, regardless of which extension they came > > from. > > > >I think perhaps it comes down to a philosophical issue of whether the > > Semantic Result Formats extension is meant to contain all formats not > > defined in SMW; or whether it's just a utility extension. The 'calendar' > > format in SRF already breaks the rules somewhat by defining new parser > > functions in addition to just a format; but form inputs seem to go beyond > > that, in that they're not tied in with querying at all. > > > >I should note that there's a third option, which is to move the form > > inputs into the "Maps" extension: after all, they're just a hook, and > > people who aren't using SMW/SF can ignore the code. It's probably not a > > good idea, but I wanted to "throw that out there". > > > >-Yaron > > > > > > > >On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Markus Krötzsch > > <mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org> wrote: > > > >On Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009, jeroen De Dauw wrote: > >>>>> Hey, > >>>>> > >>>>> After my GSoC project ends, I will remain active in the community, > >>>>> continue to support both extensions, and very probably continue on > >>>>> improving them. To what extend will ofcourse depend on how much work > >>>>> I'll have at university. > >> > >>Of course. Free software always requires free time. It's already great if > >> > >>>>there will be some amount of continued bug fixing and basic > >>>> maintenance. > >>>> > >>>>> When released, both extensions will have roughly the same size as > >>>>> they have now. Maps is by far the largest, couse it contains the Open > >>>>> Layers API. Semantic Maps will be pretty small, and should therefore > >>>>> not form any problem when putting the code into SRF. So, as I see it, > >>>>> there are two advantages to ading the SM code to SRF: easier to > >>>>> distribute and a bigger user base. > >> > >>+ slightly easier translation/internationalisation since you can use > >> SRF's > >> > >>>>message file and don't have to ask Siebrand for a new one ;-). > >>>> > >>>>> And 2 disadvantages: it adds prerequests to the map > >>>>> functionallity in SRF (SF & Maps), > >> > >>This is not a problem. SRF already includes various printers that > >> introduce > >> > >>>>further prerequisites. These printers are simply not enabled by > >>>> default, and the dependencies are stated in the SRF docs. SRF has a > >>>> simple way of configuring which printers to make available by > >>>> switching them on or off in LocalSettings. > >>>> > >>>>> and it's less easy to maintain. > >> > >>Why is that? Every printer in SRF is pretty independent from the others > >> and > >> > >>>>has its own subdirectory. So it does not make much of a difference > >>>> compared to having a separate directory for one printer. Getting an > >>>> SVN account for MediaWiki would be a good idea anyway (if you don't > >>>> have one already). > >>>> > >>>>(As a bonus, SMW-related SVN code gets its documentation at > >> > >>http://semantic-mediawiki.org/doc/ ;-) > >> > >>>>-- Markus > >>>> > >>>>> IMHO > >>>>> this is not very conclusive, and I think that unless there are more > >>>>> arguments, it's best to let it be as it is for the moment. > >>>>> > >>>>> Sergey: Thanks for your suggestions, they are all valid, and I'll > >>>>> implement some of them before the first release. > >>>>> > >>>>> Markus: Thanks for pointing out the links/footnote stuff. > >>>>> > >>>>> Any more suggestions about Maps and Semantic Maps? > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Cheers, > >>>>> De Dauw '[RTS]BN+VS*' Jeroen > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Forum: code.bn2vs.com > >>>>> Blog: blog.bn2vs.com > >>>>> > >>>>> Xfire: bn2vs ; Skype: rts.bn.vs > >>>>> > >>>>> Don't panic. Don't be evil. > >>>>> 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 6D 69 6E 67 20 34 20 6C 69 66 65! > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> ________________________________ > >>>>> From: Markus Krötzsch <mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org> > >>>>> To: semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>>>> Cc: Sergey Chernyshev <sergey.chernys...@gmail.com>; jeroen De Dauw > >>>>> <jeroen_ded...@yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 7:49:13 PM > >>>>> Subject: Re: [SMW-devel] Maps and Semantic Maps > >>>>> > >>>>> On Mittwoch, 15. Juli 2009, Sergey Chernyshev wrote: > >>>>> > Great news, Jaroen! It's great to see that Mapping becomes more of > >>>>> > the generic solution. > >>>>> > >>>>> +1, having a single (semantic) mapping extension is certainly a > >>>>> worthy goal. Including this (the semantic part) into SRF would be > >>>>> useful if the required code is not overly large. This would simplify > >>>>> distribution and increase the user base, I believe. It would also let > >>>>> you use SRF's translatewiki.net account for internationalization. > >>>>> > >>>>> SRF can also include experimental software, but it is of course > >>>>> desirable that somebody is in charge of maintaining each component. > >>>>> Are you supporting this code after the GSoC time ends, or is someone > >>>>> else expected to take over? > >>>>> > >>>>> Regards, > >>>>> > >>>>> Markus > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> P.S. Our public online emails archives do (for security reasons) only > >>>>> show plain text versions of emails, but the plain text part of your > >>>>> email contains no hints that you included hyperlinks (bad HTML > >>>>> serializer ...). It would thus be useful to include URLs explicitly > >>>>> (using "[1]" style footnotes for long URLs), so that people browsing > >>>>> mails online can also access them. I guess this also applies to > >>>>> subscribers who use email digests or text-only email clients. > >>>>> > >>>>> P.P.S. This said, here are the relevant links: > >>>>> > >>>>> * Maps: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Maps > >>>>> * Sem' Maps: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Maps > >>>>> * Source code: http://ext.bn2vs.com/mw-map-extensionz.zip > >>>>> * Updates on Jeroen's blog: http://blog.bn2vs.com/tag/semantic-maps/ > >>>>> > >>>>> > I have a few suggestions though: > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Maps: > >>>>> > > >>>>> > - I think default mapping service should be configurable through > >>>>> > the LocalSettings.php using some global variable. > >>>>> > - Mapping services available to the users should also be > >>>>> > configurable as an array of available services. > >>>>> > - it's probably a good idea to remove (or make optional) primary > >>>>> > parameter name - coordinates for display_point and address for > >>>>> > display_address. This way default calls can be abbreviated to > >>>>> > *{{#display_point:55.7557860, > >>>>> > 37.6176330}}* and *{{#display_address:Moscow, Russia}}* which > >>>>> > should simplify usage significantly. > >>>>> > - Also, for map types, I think Yahoo provides all the types > >>>>> > Google provides and it's worth adding too (it's probably in your > >>>>> > plans anyway) - I'll also recommend adding zoombox definition by > >>>>> > boundary coordinates or radius around the points - this might be > >>>>> > very useful, but harder to implement. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Similar suggestions for the Semantic Maps: > >>>>> > > >>>>> > - add generic map format that will use default configuration for > >>>>> > the Maps extension, e.g. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > {{#ask:[[Category:Locations]]|?Has coordinates|format=map}} > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > I'm not sure if moving Semantic Maps as a whole into SRF is > >>>>> > necessarily a good idea as it adds some functionality to Semantic > >>>>> > Forms and therefore has it as prerequisite - it might be reasonable > >>>>> > to move map display code to SRF, but then it's not clear if having > >>>>> > forms code separately in another extension is viable. > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Thank you, > >>>>> > > >>>>> > Sergey > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > -- > >>>>> > Sergey Chernyshev > >>>>> > http://www.sergeychernyshev.com/ > >>>>> > > >>>>> > On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 10:51 AM, jeroen De Dauw > >>>>> > >>>>> <jeroen_ded...@yahoo.com>wrote: > >>>>> > > Hey all, > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > First of all, let me introduce myself. > >>>>> > > I'm Jeroen De Dauw, one of the GSoC students for Wikimedia > >>>>> > > foundation this year. I'm working on a map extension for Semantic > >>>>> > > MediaWiki<http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki>w > >>>>> > >ith Yaron Koren <http://yaronkoren.com/> as mentor. > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > During the last 2 months I've been working on this extension > >>>>> > > (which has actually split into 2 seperate extensions: > >>>>> > > Maps<http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Maps>and Semantic > >>>>> > > Maps <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Maps> - > >>>>> > > click the links for more info about either extension), and I'm > >>>>> > > reaching the final stage before the first release. I'd like to > >>>>> > > get some feedback on the code and overall structure of the > >>>>> > > extensions before I continue, to ensure no mayor design flaws are > >>>>> > > present. > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > You can get the code for both extensions > >>>>> > > here<http://ext.bn2vs.com/mw-map-extensionz.zip>. Note that this > >>>>> > > code is still purely dev material, and should NOT be used in a > >>>>> > > production environment. > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > One of the big questions about the Semantic Maps code is if it > >>>>> > > should just be added to Semantic Result Formats or remain > >>>>> > > separate. What are your opinions about this? > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > Any feedback is welcome. For those who are wondering, if no mayor > >>>>> > > flaws are found, both extensions will probably be released in a > >>>>> > > one or two week time frame. (I'm posting updates > >>>>> > > <http://blog.bn2vs.com/tag/semantic-maps/> on my blog.) > >>>>> > > Cheers, > >>>>> > > De Dauw '[RTS]BN+VS*' Jeroen > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > Forum: code <http://code.bn2vs.com>.bn2vs.com > >>>>> > > <http://code.bn2vs.com> > >>> > > > >>> > > Blog: blog.bn2vs.com > >>> > > > >>>>> > > Xfire: bn2vs ; Skype: rts.bn.vs > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > Don't panic. Don't be evil. > >>>>> > > 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 6D 69 6E 67 20 34 20 6C 69 66 65! > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>> > >------ -- ----- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge > >>>>> > > This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a > >>>>> > > limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry > >>>>> > > App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry > >>>>> > > Developer Challenge. See full prize details at: > >>>>> > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge > >>>>> > > _______________________________________________ > >>>>> > > Semediawiki-devel mailing list > >>>>> > > Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>>>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > >>>> > >>>>-- > >>>>Markus Krötzsch > >>>>Semantic MediaWiki http://semantic-mediawiki.org > >> > >>http://korrekt.org mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org > >> > >> > >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>----- > >> > >>>>Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge > >>>>This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited > >>>> time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) > >>>> will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. > >>>> See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge > >> > >>_______________________________________________ > >> > >>>>Semediawiki-devel mailing list > >> > >>Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >---- > > > >>Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge > >>This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time, > >>vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM) will have > >>the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full > >> prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >>Semediawiki-devel mailing list > > > >Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel -- Markus Krötzsch Semantic MediaWiki http://semantic-mediawiki.org http://korrekt.org mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org
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