On Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009, jeroen De Dauw wrote:
> Although the third option is entirely possible, and probably will work just
> as well as when placing the form inputs to SM or SRF, I really doubt this
> is good practice. It's kind of just throwing the code into one of the
> extension's dependencies, which has quite frankly nothing do do with the
> code, and then not bothering it any further since the code gets loaded
> where it's needed. So I'd go only for this approach as a last resort.
>
> I also wouldn't let the fact that this is ANOTHER extension affect any
> design decisions. After all, there already are a lot, so one more won't
> hurt. Furthermore, Maps and Semantic Maps are in themselves bundling quite
> some functionality (just look at how many map related extensions there are
> out there), and so actually reducing the number of relevant extensions to
> choose from. And when ready, I suppose it can be added to Semantic Bundle
> and replace SGM and GG that are currenly in it.
>
> One more point for keeping SM seperate is that in the future functionallity
> that is not suited to be in SRF might be added. If the code is in SRF, that
> can hamper the developement of such code, since it'l then be more difficult
> to get SM seperate again.


I am convinced. (Never question the judgement of the original developer and 
future maintainer ;-)

In any case, please put it on SVN and get translatewiki.net support. I can 
also add it to the online API doc once it is in SVN.

-- Markus

>
>
> Cheers,
> De Dauw '[RTS]BN+VS*' Jeroen
>
>
> Forum: code.bn2vs.com
> Blog: blog.bn2vs.com
>
> Xfire: bn2vs ; Skype: rts.bn.vs
>
> Don't panic. Don't be evil.
> 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 6D 69 6E 67 20 34 20 6C 69 66 65!
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sergey Chernyshev <sergey.chernys...@gmail.com>
> To: Yaron Koren <yaro...@gmail.com>
> Cc: mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org; semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net;
> jeroen De Dauw <jeroen_ded...@yahoo.com> Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2009
> 4:54:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [SMW-devel] Maps and Semantic Maps
>
> Actually, third options is OK - it just tells the system that "if SF is
> enabled, here's additional functionality for it".
>
> This way, it can be SRF + Maps and that's it, right? Do you think there
> will be other feature in the future that can go into "Semantic Maps" that
> will go beyond being either part of Maps or SRF? If not, then making it
> just Maps + SRF might be a good idea - this will definitely will increase
> distribution. After all, how many "Semantic *" extensions can we have? ;)
>
> Thank you,
>
>         Sergey
>
>
> --
> Sergey Chernyshev
> http://www.sergeychernyshev.com/
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Yaron Koren <yaro...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Let me first comment that I don't think translation/internationalization
> > is an issue either way - translatewiki.net already handles dozens of
> > extensions, and more are always being added; for them to add another
> > extension to the set is trivial, and the translators do an excellent job
> > of taking care of new values, regardless of which extension they came
> > from.
> >
> >I think perhaps it comes down to a philosophical issue of whether the
> > Semantic Result Formats extension is meant to contain all formats not
> > defined in SMW; or whether it's just a utility extension. The 'calendar'
> > format in SRF already breaks the rules somewhat by defining new parser
> > functions in addition to just a format; but form inputs seem to go beyond
> > that, in that they're not tied in with querying at all.
> >
> >I should note that there's a third option, which is to move the form
> > inputs into the "Maps" extension: after all, they're just a hook, and
> > people who aren't using SMW/SF can ignore the code. It's probably not a
> > good idea, but I wanted to "throw that out there".
> >
> >-Yaron
> >
> >
> >
> >On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 9:31 AM, Markus Krötzsch
> > <mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org> wrote:
> >
> >On Donnerstag, 16. Juli 2009, jeroen De Dauw wrote:
> >>>>> Hey,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> After my GSoC project ends, I will remain active in the community,
> >>>>> continue to support both extensions, and very probably continue on
> >>>>> improving them. To what extend will ofcourse depend on how much work
> >>>>> I'll have at university.
> >>
> >>Of course. Free software always requires free time. It's already great if
> >>
> >>>>there will be some amount of continued bug fixing and basic
> >>>> maintenance.
> >>>>
> >>>>> When released, both extensions will have roughly the same size as
> >>>>> they have now. Maps is by far the largest, couse it contains the Open
> >>>>> Layers API. Semantic Maps will be pretty small, and should therefore
> >>>>> not form any problem when putting the code into SRF. So, as I see it,
> >>>>> there are two advantages to ading the SM code to SRF: easier to
> >>>>> distribute and a bigger user base.
> >>
> >>+ slightly easier translation/internationalisation since you can use
> >> SRF's
> >>
> >>>>message file and don't have to ask Siebrand for a new one ;-).
> >>>>
> >>>>> And 2 disadvantages: it adds prerequests to the map
> >>>>> functionallity in SRF (SF & Maps),
> >>
> >>This is not a problem. SRF already includes various printers that
> >> introduce
> >>
> >>>>further prerequisites. These printers are simply not enabled by
> >>>> default, and the dependencies are stated in the SRF docs. SRF has a
> >>>> simple way of configuring which printers to make available by
> >>>> switching them on or off in LocalSettings.
> >>>>
> >>>>> and it's less easy to maintain.
> >>
> >>Why is that? Every printer in SRF is pretty independent from the others
> >> and
> >>
> >>>>has its own subdirectory. So it does not make much of a difference
> >>>> compared to having a separate directory for one printer. Getting an
> >>>> SVN account for MediaWiki would be a good idea anyway (if you don't
> >>>> have one already).
> >>>>
> >>>>(As a bonus, SMW-related SVN code gets its documentation at
> >>
> >>http://semantic-mediawiki.org/doc/ ;-)
> >>
> >>>>-- Markus
> >>>>
> >>>>> IMHO
> >>>>> this is not very conclusive, and I think that unless there are more
> >>>>> arguments, it's best to let it be as it is for the moment.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sergey: Thanks for your suggestions, they are all valid, and I'll
> >>>>> implement some of them before the first release.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Markus: Thanks for pointing out the links/footnote stuff.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Any more suggestions about Maps and Semantic Maps?
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Cheers,
> >>>>> De Dauw '[RTS]BN+VS*' Jeroen
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Forum: code.bn2vs.com
> >>>>> Blog: blog.bn2vs.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Xfire: bn2vs ; Skype: rts.bn.vs
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Don't panic. Don't be evil.
> >>>>> 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 6D 69 6E 67 20 34 20 6C 69 66 65!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ________________________________
> >>>>> From: Markus Krötzsch <mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org>
> >>>>> To: semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>>>> Cc: Sergey Chernyshev <sergey.chernys...@gmail.com>; jeroen De Dauw
> >>>>> <jeroen_ded...@yahoo.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2009 7:49:13 PM
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [SMW-devel] Maps and Semantic Maps
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mittwoch, 15. Juli 2009, Sergey Chernyshev wrote:
> >>>>> > Great news, Jaroen! It's great to see that Mapping becomes more of
> >>>>> > the generic solution.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> +1, having a single (semantic) mapping extension is certainly a
> >>>>> worthy goal. Including this (the semantic part) into SRF would be
> >>>>> useful if the required code is not overly large. This would simplify
> >>>>> distribution and increase the user base, I believe. It would also let
> >>>>> you use SRF's translatewiki.net account for internationalization.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> SRF can also include experimental software, but it is of course
> >>>>> desirable that somebody is in charge of maintaining each component.
> >>>>> Are you supporting this code after the GSoC time ends, or is someone
> >>>>> else expected to take over?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Markus
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> P.S. Our public online emails archives do (for security reasons) only
> >>>>> show plain text versions of emails, but the plain text part of your
> >>>>> email contains no hints that you included hyperlinks (bad HTML
> >>>>> serializer ...). It would thus be useful to include URLs explicitly
> >>>>> (using "[1]" style footnotes for long URLs), so that people browsing
> >>>>> mails online can also access them. I guess this also applies to
> >>>>> subscribers who use email digests or text-only email clients.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> P.P.S. This said, here are the relevant links:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> * Maps: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Maps
> >>>>> * Sem' Maps: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Maps
> >>>>> * Source code: http://ext.bn2vs.com/mw-map-extensionz.zip
> >>>>> * Updates on Jeroen's blog: http://blog.bn2vs.com/tag/semantic-maps/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> > I have a few suggestions though:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Maps:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >    - I think default mapping service should be configurable through
> >>>>> > the LocalSettings.php using some global variable.
> >>>>> >    - Mapping services available to the users should also be
> >>>>> > configurable as an array of available services.
> >>>>> >    - it's probably a good idea to remove (or make optional) primary
> >>>>> >    parameter name - coordinates for display_point and address for
> >>>>> >    display_address. This way default calls can be abbreviated to
> >>>>> > *{{#display_point:55.7557860,
> >>>>> >    37.6176330}}* and *{{#display_address:Moscow, Russia}}* which
> >>>>> > should simplify usage significantly.
> >>>>> >    - Also, for map types, I think Yahoo provides all the types
> >>>>> > Google provides and it's worth adding too (it's probably in your
> >>>>> > plans anyway) - I'll also recommend adding zoombox definition by
> >>>>> > boundary coordinates or radius around the points - this might be
> >>>>> > very useful, but harder to implement.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Similar suggestions for the Semantic Maps:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >    - add generic map format that will use default configuration for
> >>>>> > the Maps extension, e.g.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >    {{#ask:[[Category:Locations]]|?Has coordinates|format=map}}
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I'm not sure if moving Semantic Maps as a whole into SRF is
> >>>>> > necessarily a good idea as it adds some functionality to Semantic
> >>>>> > Forms and therefore has it as prerequisite - it might be reasonable
> >>>>> > to move map display code to SRF, but then it's not clear if having
> >>>>> > forms code separately in another extension is viable.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Thank you,
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >         Sergey
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > --
> >>>>> > Sergey Chernyshev
> >>>>> > http://www.sergeychernyshev.com/
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > On Wed, Jul 15, 2009 at 10:51 AM, jeroen De Dauw
> >>>>>
> >>>>> <jeroen_ded...@yahoo.com>wrote:
> >>>>> > > Hey all,
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > First of all, let me introduce myself.
> >>>>> > > I'm Jeroen De Dauw, one of the GSoC students for Wikimedia
> >>>>> > > foundation this year. I'm working on a map extension for Semantic
> >>>>> > > MediaWiki<http://semantic-mediawiki.org/wiki/Semantic_MediaWiki>w
> >>>>> > >ith Yaron Koren <http://yaronkoren.com/> as mentor.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > During the last 2 months I've been working on this extension
> >>>>> > > (which has actually split into 2 seperate extensions:
> >>>>> > > Maps<http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Maps>and Semantic
> >>>>> > > Maps <http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Semantic_Maps> -
> >>>>> > > click the links for more info about either extension), and I'm
> >>>>> > > reaching the final stage before the first release. I'd like to
> >>>>> > > get some feedback on the code and overall structure of the
> >>>>> > > extensions before I continue, to ensure no mayor design flaws are
> >>>>> > > present.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > You can get the code for both extensions
> >>>>> > > here<http://ext.bn2vs.com/mw-map-extensionz.zip>. Note that this
> >>>>> > > code is still purely dev material, and should NOT be used in a
> >>>>> > > production environment.
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > One of the big questions about the Semantic Maps code is if it
> >>>>> > > should just be added to Semantic Result Formats or remain
> >>>>> > > separate. What are your opinions about this?
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Any feedback is welcome. For those who are wondering, if no mayor
> >>>>> > > flaws are found, both extensions will probably be released in a
> >>>>> > > one or two week time frame. (I'm posting updates
> >>>>> > > <http://blog.bn2vs.com/tag/semantic-maps/> on my blog.)
> >>>>> > > Cheers,
> >>>>> > > De Dauw '[RTS]BN+VS*' Jeroen
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Forum: code <http://code.bn2vs.com>.bn2vs.com
> >>>>> > > <http://code.bn2vs.com>
> >>> > >
> >>> > > Blog: blog.bn2vs.com
> >>> > >
> >>>>> > > Xfire: bn2vs ; Skype: rts.bn.vs
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Don't panic. Don't be evil.
> >>>>> > > 70 72 6F 67 72 61 6D 6D 69 6E 67 20 34 20 6C 69 66 65!
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > -----------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>> > >------ -- ----- Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
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> >>>>> > > limited time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry
> >>>>> > > App World(TM) will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry
> >>>>> > > Developer Challenge. See full prize details at:
> >>>>> > > http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge
> >>>>> > > _______________________________________________
> >>>>> > > Semediawiki-devel mailing list
> >>>>> > > Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>>>> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
> >>>>
> >>>>--
> >>>>Markus Krötzsch
> >>>>Semantic MediaWiki    http://semantic-mediawiki.org
> >>
> >>http://korrekt.org    mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org
> >>
> >>
> >>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>-----
> >>
> >>>>Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
> >>>>This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited
> >>>> time, vendors submitting new applications to BlackBerry App World(TM)
> >>>> will have the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge.
> >>>> See full prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge
> >>
> >>_______________________________________________
> >>
> >>>>Semediawiki-devel mailing list
> >>
> >>Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >>https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel
> >
> >--------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >----
> >
> >>Enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge
> >>This is your chance to win up to $100,000 in prizes! For a limited time,
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> >>the opportunity to enter the BlackBerry Developer Challenge. See full
> >> prize details at: http://p.sf.net/sfu/Challenge
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >
> >>Semediawiki-devel mailing list
> >
> >Semediawiki-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
> >https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/semediawiki-devel


-- 
Markus Krötzsch
Semantic MediaWiki    http://semantic-mediawiki.org
http://korrekt.org    mar...@semantic-mediawiki.org

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