Athar Shiraz Siddiqui ha scritto:
On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 3:34 PM, Stefano Bagnara <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/IEsfSKfWuD6f0zvZPv2ax8pJDAZBlxkmS9al3FFaKSGg0Co7c4bn8CQEdQEYOYBNvK2KXi_sRo1Xym0eAhMRDw/Screenshot%201.pdf
Wait, you can't expect james developers to mass signup to yahoo :-(
Futhermore I have a yahoo account but I think I have no access to the above
links.
Sorry! my mistake! I thought everyone would be able to access it. This
was an honest mistake. I just wanted a place where we can share files
and other resources.
Here is a flicker site : http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/?saved=1
If there are only 20 developers lets just get them a yahoo group/
google group UNLESS we have something similar? Is that a bad idea?
ASF does not work this way. It is a bit burocratic but the ASF processes
are proven and they allowed ASF to release a lot of software.
The main concert for Apache is not the software itself but the
community. So it is important that all of the Apache project shares the
same infrastructure, the same way to work, the same processes, the same
way to communicate. THis allow apache committers to feel at home in each
project.
We have JIRA, we have the wiki and the mailing list: I think there is no
need for a google group or anything similar, but you can try proposing
it in the developer list.
We really really need more than just a mailing list we need a
workgroup / collaborative environment (the more the better: if there
is one with a white board and sketching plugin it would be cooler).
For sure it would be better if you directly worked in james wiki and in
this mailing lists, but just use the platform you prefer, once you will
be happy to donate what you "produced" (docs/code/anything else) we may
find the way to import what you did in ASF infrastructure.
Stefano, you know what I am talking about, right? I dont want to
offend anyone or be rude I just want to help ; I hope I didnt show any
disrespect. Stefano if there is any problems I beg you to tell me and
please let us open a mailing list where we can be more collaborative.
I cannot send attachments to this mailing list. Lets find something
where we can exchange attachments and pdfs (I tried sending one but
the apache mailing list bounced it). What we care about is getting
nice user friendly functionality for the app, right? do we really care
what tools are used to collaborate in the contribution to James ? or
for example what OS is used by our developers?
No problems, no offense. Just think that there are thousands developers
working in the ASF and this method is proven. JAMES is here and will not
move outside and I bet James PMC (those having binding votes for project
decisions) will not be happy to use external infrastructure.
I work also on other project outside the ASF and I believe a different
platform does not make a critical difference: of course it is simpler to
work on a platform you know.
JAMES developers use different OS and different IDEs, we only shared the
mailing list, the issue tracker (JIRA) and the wiki.
Who is our competitor by the way? Lets keep those guys in our sights
as well : for comparison purposes and so we can capture greater market
share than them. Let us keep track of data that relates market share
even if it means making it an expense billable to the foundation.
Every smtp server could be a competitor. In fact there is no other
BSD-like licensed JAVA based mail servers out there.
Apache Software Foundation has a lot of infrastructure and we should
leverage the use of already existing tool.
We, by choice,only use the mailing list for communication.
We have a wiki (http://wiki.apache.org/james/), we can have a confluence
space (for ASF committers only, ATM), we have jira
(https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/JAMES) for issues tracking.
Do you think you can try to do your work using our already existing mailing
lists and our already existing wiki?
I would love to! anything ! I am however used to a windows environment
and a bit more userfriendliness and I have trouble even uploading
images to the en.wikipedia.org/wiki website... I like wikis for
editing and creating text based information but images are a lot more
difficult to share ; so is any real time interaction.
I use windows too and I never had problems with james jira/wiki/mailing
lists.
At the moment I guess you will work "alone" so please choose the
platform you prefer and we'll manage a way to import what you did in ASF
later. It does not make sense to loose too much time defining a common
collaborative platform if there is no need of collaboration.
Whatever we could decide you would need to write to this mailing lists
in order to get in touch with current developers and I bet there is no
way to change this.
If you plan to be active in the james project or in any other Apache
project you should also definitely read this:
http://www.apache.org/foundation/getinvolved.html
Will do but in my humble opinion I would like it if I could get to the
part where I can contribute before reading protocol and other
bureaucratic stuff.
I understand it is frustrating to read how ASF works when you simply
would like to concretely contribute something for free. BUt this is how
it works. Everyone here did that and this is one of the success points
for the ASF, I'm noone to tell that if the ASF did it simpler it would
have create a better community.
THis is not a company, there is no boss, so it is important that we all
share and agree on our rules and our processes, otherwise it would be
very chaotic (and even with rules it is not always easy to agree on what
to do).
BTW if this is too much for you, feel free to simply use the mailing
list like we are doing, and do your work somewhere else... if other
james users/developers will find the infrastructure you use a better
place than current james infrastructure they will follow.
One fact is sure: JAMES will use mailing lists as its official
communication channel. This is a rule from the Apache Software
FOundation and we have to respect it until we want to stay here. People
not liking this "rules" could fork james outside the ASF (using a
different name and not using the Apache "brand").
Beware that starting a fork or moving outside from ASF is a big effort,
so think twice.
If you are used to 3rd party tools (basecamp or similar) you can use them,
but please make the pages public and visible to everyone so that other
users/developers do not have to signup with them.
basecamp just made their website NOT free. Is there a similar
alternative that anyone knows of ? If not I can code something like
that.
Maybe we should also move this discussion to [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, as
this is starting to be more "developers oriented" and users could be
scared/bored by technical details ;-)
Fine :) I will look to subscribing it.
There you will find other developers :-)
Stefano
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