Hey Anne, I completely agree with your statement that the Oracle WSM is not SOA Governance. I did not see the difference till recently.
Well, now that we are on the topic of SOA Governance, why dont we lay down some of the *features* or components of a SOA Governance standard, that we may like to see as practial, feasible and useful? Currently I am not aware of any standards for the same, however, a quick search on google retrieved me an article located at this link: http://www.bluetitan.com/files/news/200509soagovernance.pdf Cheers Gautham Kasinath Masters Student Edith Cowan University, Perth, Australia Home Page: http://www.geocities.com/gkasinath --- In [email protected], Anne Thomas Manes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > No offense, Gautham, but Oracle WSM does SOA "management". Currently, it > doesn't really do much in terms of SOA "governance". After you build some > decent integration with the new Oracle registry, and you start managing > client provisioning and contracts, and perhaps validating services as they > get provisioned, then you'll get into the governance market. > > And it's "autonomic" computing (not "automatic"). > > Anne > > On 11/20/05, Gautham Kasinath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hey Steve, > > > > On the topic of real world implementation of SOA Governance, here is a > > link: > > > > http://www.oracle.com/technology/products/webservices_manager/htdocs/owsm_10gr2_fov.html > > > > The Oblix COREsv was formerly Confluent Software, the product of which > > I was. > > > > To add to the list that Anne had posted, I reckon the need today is to > > have policies for SOA or Web Services, in such a way that they are > > flexible enough to adopt newer technologies. With XML based > > standardized policy language specification, one might argue that such > > a thing is already on the map, however, the way I see it, there is > > still a need for programming languages to map XML data structures into > > thier own language. This is not only a performance over head for > > applications developed, but also a technology overhead. Technology > > overhead, because, if someone comes along in say a couple of decades > > and invents a more robust mechanism of data exchange, the applications > > built today may be in the same soup as legacy COBOL based Mainframe > > applications of yesteryears. > > > > What do you think? > > > > Hhmm... automatic computing.. that sure is new to me, I guess I will > > read some things up on that! I sure am on a steep learning curve just > > a few days after joining this group! Thanks a bunch! > > > > Cheers > > G. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Steve > > Ross-Talbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > I agree that the workshop was not entitled governance for SOA at all. > > > But it was very much in that direction. As you say governance is a > > very > > > wide topic. Alas your reports are not available whereas the position > > > papers at the workshop are freely available. So at least it is a start > > > and coupled with your basic thoughts perhaps we can drive forward in > > > the right direction. > > > > > > I'd be interested in any open discussion on the topic as I have > > spend a > > > good deal of time talking to people about this in various roles > > > (vendors, users and just practitioners) and thus far it remains > > > something of a wish list rather than something that really exists in > > > product. I do know that the companies you mentioned have made strides > > > in this area (including Systinet - your old company, and of course > > > Enigmatec - my old company) but we are a long way off from achieving > > > the sort of governance that is needed to achieve the IBM vision of > > > autonomic computing. > > > > > > So any ideas thoughts would be welcome and doubly so if we can make it > > > an open discussion. > > > > > > Cheers > > > > > > Steve T > > > > > > On 19 Nov 2005, at 13:52, Anne Thomas Manes wrote: > > > > > > > Based on my experience working with clients, I disagree that the > > term > > > > "governance" is scoped to the subject of the W3C workshop on > > > > constraints and capabilities. I've written a lot about governance > > for > > > > Burton Group. Unfortunately, I can't share those reports with you > > > > because Burton Group reports are available only to subscribers. > > > > > > > > But I will share with you some basic thoughts: > > > > > > > > Governance refers to the processes that an enterprise puts in > > place to > > > > ensure that things are done right, where "right" means in accordance > > > > with best practices, architectural principles, government > > regulations, > > > > laws, and other determining factors. SOA governance refers to the > > > > processes used to govern adoption and implementation of SOA. > > > > > > > > SOA governance involves three steps: > > > > 1 Define SOA policies > > > > 2 Deploy an SOA infrastructure that supports adoption of these > > > > policies > > > > 3 Institute a set of formal processes and procedures that verify > > > > compliance with these policies > > > > > > > > SOA policies relate to issues such as: > > > > ⢠·        Design principles > > > > ⢠·        Preferred design patterns > > > > ⢠·        Application-factoring rules > > > > ⢠·        Naming conventions > > > > ⢠·        Metadata requirements > > > > ⢠·        Documentation > > > > ⢠·        Preferred products > > > > ⢠·        Product selection guidelines > > > > ⢠·        Preferred domain standards > > > > ⢠·        Preferred industry standards > > > > ⢠·        Methods for dealing with regulatory > > requirements > > > > ⢠·        Methods for assessing security risks > > > > ⢠    Methods for implementing security based on risk factor > > > > ⢠·        Methods for ensuring reliability and > > transaction > > > > integrity· > > > > ⢠    Service testing > > > > ⢠     New service deployment and staging > > > > ⢠·        Service registration > > > > ⢠·        Service classification > > > > ⢠·        Service provisioning > > > > ⢠·        Service configuration > > > > ⢠·        Service monitoring > > > > ⢠·        Client provisioning > > > > ⢠·        Service modification > > > > ⢠·        Service versioning > > > > ⢠·        Impact analysis > > > > ⢠·        Service level objectives (SLO) > > > > ⢠·        Service level agreement (SLA) compliance > > tracking > > > > ⢠·        Error tracking and resolution > > > > This list is long, but it barely scratches the surface. > > > > > > > > Products that help with SOA governance include registries, > > > > repositories, software asset management systems, workflow, testing > > > > tools, web services management. > > > > > > > > No one vendor covers the full SOA governance lifecycle. > > > > > > > > Leading players in the SOA governance software market include: > > > > ⢠Systinet and WebLayers, who provide policy management systems > > > > (repository-based system for managing the lifecycle of codified > > > > policies) as well as policy compliance testing tools and integrated > > > > workflow for managing approval processes. Mindreef also does some > > > > compliance testing, but at a much smaller scope. > > > > ⢠Systinet, Infravio, Flashline, and LogicLibrary, who provide > > > > registries, repositories, and/or software asset management systems, > > > > which are extremely useful for managing SOA assets and which can be > > > > used as a gatekeeper for institution of governance approval > > processes > > > > at various points in the service lifecycle (dev, testing, staging, > > > > provisioning, revisions) > > > > ⢠AmberPoint, Actional, Layer 7, and Reactivity, who provide > > support > > > > for governance at the service provisioning and runtime stages. > > > > Anne > > > > > > > > On 11/19/05, Gautham Kasinath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Thanks for the brief explanation. I am reading the workshop materials > > > >> from W3C on the topic, following your advice. > > > >> > > > >> Thanks again. > > > >> > > > >> Cheers > > > >> Gautham Kasinath > > > >> --- In [email protected], Steve > > > >> Ross-Talbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > Gautham, > > > >> > > > > >> > Normally the term governance as applied to SOA is based on the > > > >> notion > > > >> > of static governance. > > > >> > This is the sort of thing that WS-Policy (which is not a > > standard) > > > >> is > > > >> > all about. A recent workshop > > > >> > run by W3C looked at wider notions of governance including the more > > > >> > interesting form which is > > > >> > dynamic governance. > > > >> > > > > >> > It probably makes sense to take a peek at the W3C workshop > > papers to > > > >> > get a better understanding > > > >> > of what governance is all about. > > > >> > > > > >> > Cheers > > > >> > > > > >> > Steve T > > > >> > > > > >> > W3C Workshop on Constraints and Capabilities for Web Services > > > >> >              > > http://www.w3.org/2004/09/ws-cc-program.html#papers > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > On 19 Nov 2005, at 00:33, Gautham Kasinath wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > Hello, > > > >> > > > > > >> > >  What exactly is SOA governance? Is it goverining an SOA > > > >> framework, > > > >> > >  like in monitoring request-response, SLA etc? > > > >> > > > > > >> > >  Cheers > > > >> > >  Gautham Kasinath > > > >> > > > > > >> > >  --- In [email protected], John > > > >> Crupi > > > >> > >  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >> > >  > > > > >> > >  > Would you like to start with the use-cases/scenarios > > first to > > > >> helpà > > > >> > >  > narrow the problem? > > > >> > >  > > > > >> > >  > jc > > > >> > >  > ----------------------------------------- > > > >> > >  > John Crupi > > > >> > >  > CTO, Enterprise Web Services Practice > > > >> > >  > Sun Distinguished Engineer > > > >> > >  > AIM: JohnCrupi > > > >> > >  > Blog: blogs.sun.com/crupi <http://blogs.sun.com/crupi> > > > >> > >  > Cell: 301.526.7890 > > > >> > >  > > > > >> > >  > > > > >> > >  > On Nov 18, 2005, at 12:22 AM, Tilak Mitra wrote: > > > >> > >  > > > > >> > >  > > I am looking for some real world implementation of SOA > > > >> > >  > > Governance, starting right from a project inception > > > >> > >  > > i.e. Strategy and Visioning , through Design, > > > >> > >  > > Implementation and right through operational and > > > >> > >  > > runtime. > > > >> > >  > > Any white paper / research work or material in any > > > >> > >  > > other form would be helpful. > > > >> > >  > > Thanks > > > >> > >  > > Regards > > > >> > >  > > Tilak > > > >> > >  > > > > > >> > >  > > > > > >> > >  > > > > > >> > >  > > __________________________________ > > > >> > >  > > Yahoo! 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