Anne, 

Now you have confused me a little. If MOM++ (as you put it) can be
perceived as ESB, then are all MOM++ architectures ESBs?? 

Further, if ESB, as per their intended definition (for the lack of the
right word) is for stream lining inter/intra enterprises work flow,
why web services and MOM? Why not good old HTTP (REST) or RMI or RPC? 

Cheers
G

--- In [email protected], "Anne Thomas
Manes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> LOL!
> 
> Spot on, Steve.
> 
> For the most part, "ESB" is a marketing term. Sonic invented the term is
> 2002 (I think -- maybe it was 2001) to describe its then new XML-enabled
> messaging system. Shortly after that, Gartner picked up the term and
> proclaimed that it referred to a combination of SOA and EDA (event
driven
> architecture) -- i.e., something that supports SOAP request/response and
> MOM-oriented reliable messaging and pub/sub. At that point nearly
every MOM
> vendor had to have one. From that perspective, I refer to ESB as MOM++.
> Products that fall in this camp include Fiorano ESB, IBM WebSphere
Message
> Broker, Sonic ESB, Tibco BusinessWorks, webMethods Fabric, Mule, and
> ServiceMix.
> 
> But by 2003, a bunch of other vendors hijacked the term and applied
it to
> their own integration products, which weren't necessarily MOM-based.
> Products that fall into this category include BEA AquaLogic Service Bus,
> Cape Clear ESB, IBM WebSphere ESB, IBM WebSphere Process Server,
IONA Artix,
> Polar Lake, Oracle ESB, Software AG crossvision, Sun SeeBeyond, and
Celtix.
> These systems tend to be pretty different -- the one thing in common is
> integration and support of web services.
> 
> Then there are what I categorize as pure-play mediation systems: Apache
> Synapse and SOA Software Blue Titan -- not really ESBs, but certainly a
> viable alternative.
> 
> Anne
> 
> On 6/27/06, Steve Ross-Talbot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >   So what is an ESB?
> >
> > Is there any sort of stable and accepted definition of what an ESB
> > really is?
> >
> > What is the difference between a JMS vendor with some basic brokering
> > ability (for message xformation and routing)
> > against an ESB vendor?
> >
> > Having founded Spiritsoft in 1997 and having given birth to the
> > SpiritArchitecture I see no differentiation between
> > what I have said above and an ESB. So what is new and cool and needed
> > about and ESB?
> >
> > Is it just marketecture or is there substance behind?
> >
> > Sorry for posing the questions but, oddly enough, I don't have an
> > answer myself so I thought I'd ask you folks
> > what you think.
> >
> > Looking fwd to the replies.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > Steve T
> >
> >
> > On 27 Jun 2006, at 21:09, Stefan Tilkov wrote:
> >
> > > On Jun 27, 2006, at 5:15 PM, Eric Newcomer wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > This kind of brings up the "bottom up" vs "top down" approach
> > > > debate I think, at least if I understand you correctly.
> > > >
> > >
> > > Hi Eric - Partially, yes.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I would think the top-down, or WSDL first, or contract first
> > > > approach is preferable but we often encounter developers who
prefer
> > > > the bottom up approach.
> > > >
> > > > Maybe there's room or need for both?
> > > >
> > >
> > > I agree that contract-first is preferable to code-first. What was
> > > referring to, though, was something different: I believe a "service"
> > > is something that is semantically different from a distributed
> > > objects's interface, not just a different messaging protocol. That's
> > > why I'm deeply suspicious of any toolkit that "just" maps CORBA,
DCOM
> > > or RMI to SOAP ...
> > >
> > > Stefan
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Eric
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message ----
> > > > From: Stefan Tilkov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<stefan.tilkov%40innoq.com>
> > >
> > > > To:
[email protected]<service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, June 27, 2006 7:44:33 AM
> > > > Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture] SOA and ESBs
> > > >
> > > > On Jun 27, 2006, at 1:08 PM, Stefan Tilkov wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Anything that promises to turn local or remote objects or
> > > > > component interfaces is most likely going to introduce more
> > > trouble
> > > > > than it's worth.
> > > >
> > > > That was supposed to be "Anything that promises to turn local or
> > > > remote objects or component interfaces *into 'services'
> > > > automatically* is most likely going to introduce more trouble than
> > > > it's worth."
> > > >
> > > > Stefan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >  
> >
>










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