I'm really struggling to picture the business process that = GE.
To say that SOA is limited to usefulness around BP is (IMO) a little odd. I've worked on agent projects where we used services and had BDI as the method for defining how they worked, I've worked with goal driven parts of organisations and use that, but pretty much always used service as the "container" for those definitions. The current IT obsession with process also tends to think that all processes are executable and that the IT execution is the same as the business process (or should be). BPM is visual COBOL, its a procedural language with async support that is still at its heart bound by the same limitations that made OO such a powerful metaphor over procedural in the 90s. Steve On 01/05/07, Jerry Zhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From your perspective, you received a service from GE. From GE perspective it is a business process that ended in delivering a service/product to you, a customer. Of course, process is not all that is used to model an enterprise. It is the operating processes where SOA is most useful. Jerry --- Steve Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <jones.steveg%40gmail.com>> wrote: > I'm not buying the Process is a higher level of > abstraction than service. > Lets put it this way > > General Electric offer me a service as a > shareholder, there is a defined > contract and a defined value and a defined set of > interactions. In > otherwords its the entire General Electric company > that I'm interacting > with. This isn't even the most abstract service I > can think of, take the > UN, EU or whatever all can be, fairly easily, > described as a service. > > You can't describe a business just in terms of its > processes. > > > > On 28/04/07, Jerry Zhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <jerryyz%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > Form business people's perspective, yes, SOA and > BPM > > are the same thing. From IT people's perspective, > > they are different as much as they are different > > between OO and SOA. > > > > We often say that Service is higher level of > > abstraction than Objects. In the same line, > Processes > > in BPM is higher level abstraction than Service. > Both > > business logic and infrustracture units at these > > different levels of abstraction are different. I > see > > BMP is the highest level of abstration in the > > evolution of IT started from machine language 0's > and > > 1's. > > > > Jerry > > > > --- Todd Biske <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <todd.biske%40gmail.com> > <todd.biske%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Robin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > What I say is that my business decision makers > > > don't understand why > > > > they should invest in SOA if it does not help > them > > > to optimize their > > > > business processes, so they tend to consider > that > > > BPM and SOA are one > > > > same thing. I don't know how far this thinking > is > > > the result of vendors marketing. > > > > > > > > > > This is consistent with the statements that came > out > > > of the SOA > > > Consortium Executive briefings. The CIOs > > > participating pretty much > > > said the same thing, as the first of the five > > > published insights was > > > that "There should be no artificial separation > > > between BPM and SOA." > > > > > > -tb > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > >
