Business Process not= GE. BP is the interface between customers and the organization. Because BP is defined as such (begin and end with customers in delivering a service/product). There are other proceses: management process (ie planning) and support process (ie. HR).
SOA is good for BP because of requirement of constant change customers/demands/products/services /regulations/policies etc. SOA is created for change. SOA may not be good for other types of process. In that case, traditional applications will work well. Web services being used not= SOA being used. Web services are often used where they are not need to. Process is the unit of analysis for BPM in the same way object is the unit of analysis for OO. Process needs to be modeled, tracked, monitored, and measured. BP can be modeled by BP type and BP instances with two goals respectively: strategic (ie customer satisfaction) and operation goals (ie fast delivery). Two goals are measured differently and the model itself is a way of strategy implemenation. There is not comparison between BPM and Procedure orientation. They are at different levels of abstraction. To do so is like to compare organ function (ie. liver, kidnney) with psycholology. David Taylor's convergent engineering is good at OO level for organizations with mechanistic structure (see Mintzberg' "Structure in Fives") and is not good to model other types of organizations such ad hoc organizations. OO is powerful but we are two levels of abstraction above now. To fully utilize IT potential and we need to model large businesses in all levels of abstraction and utilze all technologies. Kind regards Jerry --- Steve Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm really struggling to picture the business > process that = GE. > > To say that SOA is limited to usefulness around BP > is (IMO) a little odd. > I've worked on agent projects where we used services > and had BDI as the > method for defining how they worked, I've worked > with goal driven parts of > organisations and use that, but pretty much always > used service as the > "container" for those definitions. > > The current IT obsession with process also tends to > think that all processes > are executable and that the IT execution is the same > as the business process > (or should be). BPM is visual COBOL, its a > procedural language with async > support that is still at its heart bound by the same > limitations that made > OO such a powerful metaphor over procedural in the > 90s. > > Steve > > > On 01/05/07, Jerry Zhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > From your perspective, you received a service > from GE. > > From GE perspective it is a business process that > > ended in delivering a service/product to you, a > > customer. > > > > Of course, process is not all that is used to > model an > > enterprise. It is the operating processes where > SOA > > is most useful. > > > > Jerry > > > > --- Steve Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <jones.steveg%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > I'm not buying the Process is a higher level of > > > abstraction than service. > > > Lets put it this way > > > > > > General Electric offer me a service as a > > > shareholder, there is a defined > > > contract and a defined value and a defined set > of > > > interactions. In > > > otherwords its the entire General Electric > company > > > that I'm interacting > > > with. This isn't even the most abstract service > I > > > can think of, take the > > > UN, EU or whatever all can be, fairly easily, > > > described as a service. > > > > > > You can't describe a business just in terms of > its > > > processes. > > > > > > > > > > > > On 28/04/07, Jerry Zhu <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <jerryyz%40yahoo.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > Form business people's perspective, yes, SOA > and > > > BPM > > > > are the same thing. From IT people's > perspective, > > > > they are different as much as they are > different > > > > between OO and SOA. > > > > > > > > We often say that Service is higher level of > > > > abstraction than Objects. In the same line, > > > Processes > > > > in BPM is higher level abstraction than > Service. > > > Both > > > > business logic and infrustracture units at > these > > > > different levels of abstraction are different. > I > > > see > > > > BMP is the highest level of abstration in the > > > > evolution of IT started from machine language > 0's > > > and > > > > 1's. > > > > > > > > Jerry > > > > > > > > --- Todd Biske <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > <todd.biske%40gmail.com> > > > <todd.biske%40gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Apr 27, 2007, at 8:51 AM, Robin wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What I say is that my business decision > makers > > > > > don't understand why > > > > > > they should invest in SOA if it does not > help > > > them > > > > > to optimize their > > > > > > business processes, so they tend to > consider > > > that > > > > > BPM and SOA are one > > > > > > same thing. I don't know how far this > thinking > > > is > > > > > the result of vendors marketing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is consistent with the statements that > came > > > out > > > > > of the SOA > > > > > Consortium Executive briefings. The CIOs > > > > > participating pretty much > > > > > said the same thing, as the first of the > five > > > > > published insights was > > > > > that "There should be no artificial > separation > > > > > between BPM and SOA." > > > > > > > > > > -tb > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do You Yahoo!? > > > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > > > protection around > > > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
