2008/11/3 Mark Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Steve Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> 2008/11/2 Mark Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> On Sat, Nov 1, 2008 at 2:28 PM, Steve Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> wrote: >>>> "millions of developers" are obeying the hypermedia constraint? I'm >>>> assuming that you have no figures to back up that bold assertion. >>> >>> The only figure I need is this one; >>> >>> http://www.cs.uiowa.edu/~asignori/web-size/ >>> >>> plus the knowledge that pervasive use of hypermedia is a necessary >>> condition for the Web to have reached that size. >> >> Errr Mark, you do know the difference between the use of hypermedia >> and the concept of hypermedia as the engine of state don't you? The >> two are not a single thing, I'm surprised you aren't aware of that. > > Of course I'm aware of the difference, Steve. But it's immaterial > when the links contain sufficient information for the next state in > the application state machine to be reached through the reception of a > new representation. Like, for example, when they're http links.
This thread started off with an example from Roy Fielding of why people using HTTP and claiming it as REST are muppets and should stop doing it. You now appear to be saying that as long as you use an HTTP link then its fine to break every REST rule in the book so RPC is fine as long as you do it via HTTP links. > >>> And if you're looking for examples or counter-examples, don't bother >>> looking at how individual sites are structured, because that's not >>> what yields a "Web". Instead, look at inter-site integration. >> >> Oh for pities sake, so show me the millions of people who have done >> inter-site integration then. > > Would one suffice? I just visited your blog, and noticed it presented > a link to your book's page at InfoQ.com. Well done! Oh boy. You really do like clutching at straws in your strawman. Hypertext linking is NOT the same as Hypermedia as the engine of state. As an example from my blog there is NOTHING that says what the purpose of the link is or what the type of the destination page is or indeed what the reason for the link is, the best you can say is that the link has a description but then you can't use that for inference as its pure untyped English. I thought you understood about REST and the difference between people who just use HTTP and claim REST (what Roy was moaning about) and people who are actually doing REST. Clearly you have a massive difference of opinion with Roy on the minimum criteria to define REST compliance, I look forward to your blog post explaining why all that is required to "do REST" is a hyperlink. Hell I'm doing a REST of SOA presentation at Adobe MAX (come along and heckle if you like) and was going to be pretty clear about it and reference a very large, public facing, document centric, internet, REST reference site that we've done at work but now that I know that its just about HTTP I'll pick any old crap. > >>> I have no doubt that anybody able to understand the complexity of WS-* >>> has the capacity to understand hypermedia. I just haven't seen many >>> reformed WS-*ers who actually do yet. >> >> Maybe because some people prefer to use the right tools for the job >> rather than downing the kool-aid. > > Come on Steve, it's delicious and refreshing kool-aid, and all the > kids are drinking it. :) Never liked Kool-aid, its the High Fructose Corn Syrup it contains, I'll stick with my red wine and a grouchy face. Steve > > Mark. >
