Hi Anne, Maybe we could talk it over at Boston. I have to get Jason's and Ron's autographs on their book. If Michael is there and if his book is out by that time, it sure would be great if I could get his autograph too. If Eric is there too, I'll bring his book too. :-)
Would greatly appreciate if somebody could tell me the address in Boston where it will be held. H.Ozawa --- In [email protected], Anne Thomas Manes <atma...@...> wrote: > > Hitoshi, > > On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:51 PM, htshozawa<htshoz...@...> wrote: > > > > > > I'm not too keen on "service-orient the organization". Like other disruptive > > technology, SOA allows users who were not able to create enterprise > > architecture to gradually create one. I don't think there isn't too much > > difference between a hole dug by a hydraulic excavator compared to a > > cable-operated excavator. There isn't too much difference now between steel > > from large steel mills compared to mini steel mills. I think it's the > > enablement that the key. > > +1. Technology doesn't matter. But I don't agree/understand your > assertion that SOA "allows" users to gradually create enterprise > architecture > > > IMHO, an organization with a strong leader and with > > enough budget, time, and talent will be able to achieve success and attain > > flexibility without SOA. > > An organization with strong leadership, time, and talent is likely to > be successful with SOA. (Budget is less important, although certainly > helpful.) What other architectural style would you recommend in place > of SOA to attain flexibility? > > > IMHO, SOA is for the others who don't have a strong leader to quickly form > > consensus, don't have enough budget, time, and gather all the necessary > > talents. SOA when properly applied allows there organizations to better use > > external resources to obtain the goal. > > In my experience, organizations without strong leadership typically > fail at SOA. These companies typically have a great deal of difficulty > doing the "properly applied" bit. > > > As an example, with the spread of the Internet, there are now many sites > > offering comparison of different services. These sites not only review the > > product itself but allows users to write review on the services including > > ease of payment, delivery and shipping, and claim handling. It it no longer > > a matter of being able to ship a product but to be able continuously satisfy > > the users to make them come back again by always being able to provide the > > best service available anywhere. This necessitate us to better cooperate > > with external entities because an organization or a person can not do > > everything alone. > > I'm not sure I see the connection between SOA success and this > example. You seem to be talking about business/capability outsourcing, > a la "The Flat World" and "The Only Sustainable Edge". Is that what > you mean by "service-orient the organization"? I think Steve would > refer to these concepts as developing a business value network. > > Carving off a section of your business and commissioning a third party > network to supply you with comparable services has practically become > the norm in modern business. But it demands an IT architecture that > enables data/application/process integration with these third party > providers. Service orientation makes this integration a lot easier. > > > While some sees open source as just making program source available, the > > success of an open source project hinges on building a user/developer > > community. Allowing others to see the source codes is just one of the ways > > to attract people to form a virtual organization which is more able to offer > > higher level services to better compete. Just making the source code > > available is not enough, there must be a process to allow others to join and > > to contribute to offer new services and to offer higher quality services in > > a shorter period of time and with lower cost. > > > > Open source is one example of cooperation between external entities. > > Organizations and people can benefit by cooperating with each other without > > making something public. Payment is an example where cooperation with an > > external entities often offers better service. Some stores used to have > > their own credit cards, but this gave way to more generalized credit cards. > > A service such as Paypal further offers more options to customers. An > > organization would be able to provide better services by concentrating on > > providing their core business service and by combining it with currently > > unforeseen external supporting services. SOA is an enabling technology to > > make formation of such cooperative service much easier. > > SOA is an architectural style -- NOT a technology. You implement > services using enabling technology, but its the design that determines > whether or not the resulting system is service-oriented -- not the > technology. > > > SOA, however, is just an enabling technology allowing organizations who > > would not have started an initiative because of high cost, long time frame, > > and high risk. There is still a need to better cooperation with external > > entities based on a business strategy, but organizations will be able to > > realize the goal through better alignment of business strategy and IT. > > I suspect that many organizations bought ESBs, XML gateways, and > registry/repositories because they believed the vendor hype that these > technologies would somehow improve their broken applications > architecture. Many still don't understand that SOA is about design, > not technology. > > > With the tight economy and with global competition getter fiercer, the > > question is whether if we need SOA or not but should be more of how we can > > strategically apply SOA to offer better services to our users to remain > > competitive. > > I still believe that SOA (or perhaps we should just call it "good > architectural practices") is critical going forward. The fierce > economy makes agility more important now than ever. > > Anne > > > It seems like to some organizations this question maybe too late, but can > > you say that your organization is rated as offering the best service in > > different categories globally? If not, maybe SOA can help. :-) > > > > H.Ozawa > > > > --- In [email protected], "Udi Dahan" > > <thesoftwaresimplist@> wrote: > >> > >> So if there is clarity on the need to service-orient the organization, can > >> we describe at an organizational level what the key differences are > >> between > >> one that is SO and one that isn't? > >> > >> > >> > >> I would suggest that such a description take into account the geographical > >> perspective as well - for example, the fact that there is a billing > >> department at each location, can we say that they all belong to the same > >> billing service? > >> > >> > >> > >> Steve, would you like to bring the value networks stuff to play here? > >> > >> > >> > >> Best regards, > >> > >> > >> > >> -- Udi Dahan > >> > >> > >> > >> From: [email protected] > >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >> htshozawa > >> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:06 PM > >> To: [email protected] > >> Subject: [service-orientated-architecture] Re: Anne again on SOA's > >> Mortality > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> --- In [email protected] > >> <mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com> , "Udi Dahan" > >> <thesoftwaresimplist@> wrote: > >> > > >> > Hitoshi, > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > I wasn't being prescriptive on how we service-orient the organization > >> > (bottom-up, top-down, middle-out, whatever), that's a different > >> discussion. > >> > > >> > I just wanted to see if we could get clarity on the need. > >> > > >> Well, I think most of us on this list don't doubt the necesssary of SO. > >> It's > >> just the extent (whether SOA or just SO) and how we go about it. > >> > >> H.Ozawa > >> > > > > >
