Ron has not yet settled on a venue. Anne
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:48 PM, htshozawa<[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi Anne, > Maybe we could talk it over at Boston. I have to get Jason's and Ron's > autographs on their book. If Michael is there and if his book is out by that > time, it sure would be great if I could get his autograph too. If Eric is > there too, I'll bring his book too. :-) > > Would greatly appreciate if somebody could tell me the address in Boston > where it will be held. > > H.Ozawa > > --- In [email protected], Anne Thomas Manes > <atma...@...> wrote: >> >> Hitoshi, >> >> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:51 PM, htshozawa<htshoz...@...> wrote: >> > >> > >> > I'm not too keen on "service-orient the organization". Like other >> > disruptive >> > technology, SOA allows users who were not able to create enterprise >> > architecture to gradually create one. I don't think there isn't too much >> > difference between a hole dug by a hydraulic excavator compared to a >> > cable-operated excavator. There isn't too much difference now between >> > steel >> > from large steel mills compared to mini steel mills. I think it's the >> > enablement that the key. >> >> +1. Technology doesn't matter. But I don't agree/understand your >> assertion that SOA "allows" users to gradually create enterprise >> architecture >> >> > IMHO, an organization with a strong leader and with >> > enough budget, time, and talent will be able to achieve success and >> > attain >> > flexibility without SOA. >> >> An organization with strong leadership, time, and talent is likely to >> be successful with SOA. (Budget is less important, although certainly >> helpful.) What other architectural style would you recommend in place >> of SOA to attain flexibility? >> >> > IMHO, SOA is for the others who don't have a strong leader to quickly >> > form >> > consensus, don't have enough budget, time, and gather all the necessary >> > talents. SOA when properly applied allows there organizations to better >> > use >> > external resources to obtain the goal. >> >> In my experience, organizations without strong leadership typically >> fail at SOA. These companies typically have a great deal of difficulty >> doing the "properly applied" bit. >> >> > As an example, with the spread of the Internet, there are now many sites >> > offering comparison of different services. These sites not only review >> > the >> > product itself but allows users to write review on the services >> > including >> > ease of payment, delivery and shipping, and claim handling. It it no >> > longer >> > a matter of being able to ship a product but to be able continuously >> > satisfy >> > the users to make them come back again by always being able to provide >> > the >> > best service available anywhere. This necessitate us to better cooperate >> > with external entities because an organization or a person can not do >> > everything alone. >> >> I'm not sure I see the connection between SOA success and this >> example. You seem to be talking about business/capability outsourcing, >> a la "The Flat World" and "The Only Sustainable Edge". Is that what >> you mean by "service-orient the organization"? I think Steve would >> refer to these concepts as developing a business value network. >> >> Carving off a section of your business and commissioning a third party >> network to supply you with comparable services has practically become >> the norm in modern business. But it demands an IT architecture that >> enables data/application/process integration with these third party >> providers. Service orientation makes this integration a lot easier. >> >> > While some sees open source as just making program source available, the >> > success of an open source project hinges on building a user/developer >> > community. Allowing others to see the source codes is just one of the >> > ways >> > to attract people to form a virtual organization which is more able to >> > offer >> > higher level services to better compete. Just making the source code >> > available is not enough, there must be a process to allow others to join >> > and >> > to contribute to offer new services and to offer higher quality services >> > in >> > a shorter period of time and with lower cost. >> > >> > Open source is one example of cooperation between external entities. >> > Organizations and people can benefit by cooperating with each other >> > without >> > making something public. Payment is an example where cooperation with an >> > external entities often offers better service. Some stores used to have >> > their own credit cards, but this gave way to more generalized credit >> > cards. >> > A service such as Paypal further offers more options to customers. An >> > organization would be able to provide better services by concentrating >> > on >> > providing their core business service and by combining it with currently >> > unforeseen external supporting services. SOA is an enabling technology >> > to >> > make formation of such cooperative service much easier. >> >> SOA is an architectural style -- NOT a technology. You implement >> services using enabling technology, but its the design that determines >> whether or not the resulting system is service-oriented -- not the >> technology. >> >> > SOA, however, is just an enabling technology allowing organizations who >> > would not have started an initiative because of high cost, long time >> > frame, >> > and high risk. There is still a need to better cooperation with external >> > entities based on a business strategy, but organizations will be able to >> > realize the goal through better alignment of business strategy and IT. >> >> I suspect that many organizations bought ESBs, XML gateways, and >> registry/repositories because they believed the vendor hype that these >> technologies would somehow improve their broken applications >> architecture. Many still don't understand that SOA is about design, >> not technology. >> >> > With the tight economy and with global competition getter fiercer, the >> > question is whether if we need SOA or not but should be more of how we >> > can >> > strategically apply SOA to offer better services to our users to remain >> > competitive. >> >> I still believe that SOA (or perhaps we should just call it "good >> architectural practices") is critical going forward. The fierce >> economy makes agility more important now than ever. >> >> Anne >> >> > It seems like to some organizations this question maybe too late, but >> > can >> > you say that your organization is rated as offering the best service in >> > different categories globally? If not, maybe SOA can help. :-) >> > >> > H.Ozawa >> > >> > --- In [email protected], "Udi Dahan" >> > <thesoftwaresimplist@> wrote: >> >> >> >> So if there is clarity on the need to service-orient the organization, >> >> can >> >> we describe at an organizational level what the key differences are >> >> between >> >> one that is SO and one that isn't? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> I would suggest that such a description take into account the >> >> geographical >> >> perspective as well - for example, the fact that there is a billing >> >> department at each location, can we say that they all belong to the >> >> same >> >> billing service? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve, would you like to bring the value networks stuff to play here? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- Udi Dahan >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: [email protected] >> >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of >> >> htshozawa >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:06 PM >> >> To: [email protected] >> >> Subject: [service-orientated-architecture] Re: Anne again on SOA's >> >> Mortality >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> --- In [email protected] >> >> <mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com> , "Udi >> >> Dahan" >> >> <thesoftwaresimplist@> wrote: >> >> > >> >> > Hitoshi, >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > I wasn't being prescriptive on how we service-orient the organization >> >> > (bottom-up, top-down, middle-out, whatever), that's a different >> >> discussion. >> >> > >> >> > I just wanted to see if we could get clarity on the need. >> >> > >> >> Well, I think most of us on this list don't doubt the necesssary of SO. >> >> It's >> >> just the extent (whether SOA or just SO) and how we go about it. >> >> >> >> H.Ozawa >> >> >> > >> > >> > >
