We finally have a good venue: M.J. O'Connor's Irish Pub 27 Columbus Avenue; Next to Boston Park Plaza Hotel Boston, MA 02116 (617) 482-2255
Register: http://www.regonline.com/zapboston09 See y'all there! Ron --- In [email protected], Anne Thomas Manes <atma...@...> wrote: > > Ron has not yet settled on a venue. > > Anne > > On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:48 PM, htshozawa<htshoz...@...> wrote: > > > > > > Hi Anne, > > Maybe we could talk it over at Boston. I have to get Jason's and Ron's > > autographs on their book. If Michael is there and if his book is out by that > > time, it sure would be great if I could get his autograph too. If Eric is > > there too, I'll bring his book too. :-) > > > > Would greatly appreciate if somebody could tell me the address in Boston > > where it will be held. > > > > H.Ozawa > > > > --- In [email protected], Anne Thomas Manes > > <atmanes@> wrote: > >> > >> Hitoshi, > >> > >> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:51 PM, htshozawa<htshozawa@> wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > I'm not too keen on "service-orient the organization". Like other > >> > disruptive > >> > technology, SOA allows users who were not able to create enterprise > >> > architecture to gradually create one. I don't think there isn't too much > >> > difference between a hole dug by a hydraulic excavator compared to a > >> > cable-operated excavator. There isn't too much difference now between > >> > steel > >> > from large steel mills compared to mini steel mills. I think it's the > >> > enablement that the key. > >> > >> +1. Technology doesn't matter. But I don't agree/understand your > >> assertion that SOA "allows" users to gradually create enterprise > >> architecture > >> > >> > IMHO, an organization with a strong leader and with > >> > enough budget, time, and talent will be able to achieve success and > >> > attain > >> > flexibility without SOA. > >> > >> An organization with strong leadership, time, and talent is likely to > >> be successful with SOA. (Budget is less important, although certainly > >> helpful.) What other architectural style would you recommend in place > >> of SOA to attain flexibility? > >> > >> > IMHO, SOA is for the others who don't have a strong leader to quickly > >> > form > >> > consensus, don't have enough budget, time, and gather all the necessary > >> > talents. SOA when properly applied allows there organizations to better > >> > use > >> > external resources to obtain the goal. > >> > >> In my experience, organizations without strong leadership typically > >> fail at SOA. These companies typically have a great deal of difficulty > >> doing the "properly applied" bit. > >> > >> > As an example, with the spread of the Internet, there are now many sites > >> > offering comparison of different services. These sites not only review > >> > the > >> > product itself but allows users to write review on the services > >> > including > >> > ease of payment, delivery and shipping, and claim handling. It it no > >> > longer > >> > a matter of being able to ship a product but to be able continuously > >> > satisfy > >> > the users to make them come back again by always being able to provide > >> > the > >> > best service available anywhere. This necessitate us to better cooperate > >> > with external entities because an organization or a person can not do > >> > everything alone. > >> > >> I'm not sure I see the connection between SOA success and this > >> example. You seem to be talking about business/capability outsourcing, > >> a la "The Flat World" and "The Only Sustainable Edge". Is that what > >> you mean by "service-orient the organization"? I think Steve would > >> refer to these concepts as developing a business value network. > >> > >> Carving off a section of your business and commissioning a third party > >> network to supply you with comparable services has practically become > >> the norm in modern business. But it demands an IT architecture that > >> enables data/application/process integration with these third party > >> providers. Service orientation makes this integration a lot easier. > >> > >> > While some sees open source as just making program source available, the > >> > success of an open source project hinges on building a user/developer > >> > community. Allowing others to see the source codes is just one of the > >> > ways > >> > to attract people to form a virtual organization which is more able to > >> > offer > >> > higher level services to better compete. Just making the source code > >> > available is not enough, there must be a process to allow others to join > >> > and > >> > to contribute to offer new services and to offer higher quality services > >> > in > >> > a shorter period of time and with lower cost. > >> > > >> > Open source is one example of cooperation between external entities. > >> > Organizations and people can benefit by cooperating with each other > >> > without > >> > making something public. Payment is an example where cooperation with an > >> > external entities often offers better service. Some stores used to have > >> > their own credit cards, but this gave way to more generalized credit > >> > cards. > >> > A service such as Paypal further offers more options to customers. An > >> > organization would be able to provide better services by concentrating > >> > on > >> > providing their core business service and by combining it with currently > >> > unforeseen external supporting services. SOA is an enabling technology > >> > to > >> > make formation of such cooperative service much easier. > >> > >> SOA is an architectural style -- NOT a technology. You implement > >> services using enabling technology, but its the design that determines > >> whether or not the resulting system is service-oriented -- not the > >> technology. > >> > >> > SOA, however, is just an enabling technology allowing organizations who > >> > would not have started an initiative because of high cost, long time > >> > frame, > >> > and high risk. There is still a need to better cooperation with external > >> > entities based on a business strategy, but organizations will be able to > >> > realize the goal through better alignment of business strategy and IT. > >> > >> I suspect that many organizations bought ESBs, XML gateways, and > >> registry/repositories because they believed the vendor hype that these > >> technologies would somehow improve their broken applications > >> architecture. Many still don't understand that SOA is about design, > >> not technology. > >> > >> > With the tight economy and with global competition getter fiercer, the > >> > question is whether if we need SOA or not but should be more of how we > >> > can > >> > strategically apply SOA to offer better services to our users to remain > >> > competitive. > >> > >> I still believe that SOA (or perhaps we should just call it "good > >> architectural practices") is critical going forward. The fierce > >> economy makes agility more important now than ever. > >> > >> Anne > >> > >> > It seems like to some organizations this question maybe too late, but > >> > can > >> > you say that your organization is rated as offering the best service in > >> > different categories globally? If not, maybe SOA can help. :-) > >> > > >> > H.Ozawa > >> > > >> > --- In [email protected], "Udi Dahan" > >> > <thesoftwaresimplist@> wrote: > >> >> > >> >> So if there is clarity on the need to service-orient the organization, > >> >> can > >> >> we describe at an organizational level what the key differences are > >> >> between > >> >> one that is SO and one that isn't? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> I would suggest that such a description take into account the > >> >> geographical > >> >> perspective as well - for example, the fact that there is a billing > >> >> department at each location, can we say that they all belong to the > >> >> same > >> >> billing service? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Steve, would you like to bring the value networks stuff to play here? > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Best regards, > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> -- Udi Dahan > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> From: [email protected] > >> >> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >> >> htshozawa > >> >> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 11:06 PM > >> >> To: [email protected] > >> >> Subject: [service-orientated-architecture] Re: Anne again on SOA's > >> >> Mortality > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> --- In [email protected] > >> >> <mailto:service-orientated-architecture%40yahoogroups.com> , "Udi > >> >> Dahan" > >> >> <thesoftwaresimplist@> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> > Hitoshi, > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > I wasn't being prescriptive on how we service-orient the organization > >> >> > (bottom-up, top-down, middle-out, whatever), that's a different > >> >> discussion. > >> >> > > >> >> > I just wanted to see if we could get clarity on the need. > >> >> > > >> >> Well, I think most of us on this list don't doubt the necesssary of SO. > >> >> It's > >> >> just the extent (whether SOA or just SO) and how we go about it. > >> >> > >> >> H.Ozawa > >> >> > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > >
