What if you laid the solar cells + batteries beside or in between the tracks on the big hills and could pick up a charge when you needed it?
Mike Nicholls Elders Real Estate Mosman 0411 222. 551 Follow me on Twiiter.com/Mikenicholls88 Sent from my iPhone On 31/01/2011, at 8:46 PM, David Lyon <[email protected]> wrote: > Yep, > > That maths is more or less correct. However I'm not advocating something that > will convey 500 passengers. Its a somewhat smaller number. > > One of the problems that Australia has with the High-Speed-Train is that there > won't be 500 passengers per service. That makes the whole conventional HST > propositions unviable. The Solar Train has less passengers, but charges more. > > The number that I am working with is about 20-40 passengers. You can use your > maths to calculate how long the train will be. > > With 40 passengers paying $150 per ticket (lets use 35) it comes to $5350 trip > multiplied by two (up and down) then in the afternoon (x2) = $21,000 per day > between Canberra and Sydney. > > For 360 days, that is a revenue of $7,560,000 per year. Each Train will cost > $2.5M to build. We'll need about six to eight. Time to pay back the money will > be about four years. > > Yes, there is a polluting and more uncomfortable bus service that runs for > $15-35 > on the same leg. > > David > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Clifford Heath <[email protected]> > wrote: > David, > > Perhaps a small example would outline my concern. > > Supposing we had magical materials which weigh nothing, so we can disregard > the mass of the train and just consider the payload. Beginning with a single > person > then, say 100Kg, travelling at 100km/hr. Railways routinely climb slopes up > to 1 in > 11. Normally less, but 1 in 11 is a common maximum sustained climb. > > The power required for this hypothetical train to lift this person at this > rate is 2.5KW, > since they're rising 2.5m/s, with a weight of 970N. > > Now if this train has a solar cell with high efficiency, say generously 18%, > and it is > in full noonday sun with the cells on the optimum angle, they make about > 180W/m^2. > > That requires 14 square metres of solar cell, per person. With a weightless > train, > zero friction or drag, at noonday, with the cells angled correctly. > > Start factoring in the overheads, and you quickly reach a required 200m^2 per > person. Carry 500 passengers, and a 5 metre-wide train would need to be 20km > long, or one passenger every 40m of train length. This just *not* a feasible > size for > a train. Sure, this is a peak load while climbing a hill, and you'd be able > to serve > that load from batteries for some duration, but those 500 people and a train > of > comparable weight are still going to need 2.5MW to climb that hill. > > I could go on... there are a hundred other potential failures in this > proposal, but... > do you see why I'm skeptical? > > Clifford Heath. > > > On 30/01/2011, at 3:55 PM, David Lyon wrote: > >> Hi Clifford, >> >> I can give a preview yes, but not the whole mathematical equation. General >> maths >> are ok.there are a few sensitive IP design solutions that I'm not going into. >> >> Firstly, my van in my garage has 7 seats, a 2 litre 90hp petrol motor. Its >> good for >> 100kmh on the road. It weighs about 1700kg. Total weight for that with all >> people >> is therefore about 2400kg. >> >> In the old days, trains many trains were actually made from wood and had >> wooden >> wheels. That kept the weight down. For 20 people we are aiming with aluminium >> and aluminium honeycomb to get something for 900kg. Think what an aluminium >> 'tinny' boat weighs - four people can go in one of those and I've seen many >> that >> weigh as little as 100kg. Think what a cessna or light plane weighs and how >> they >> are constructed. >> >> To carry 20 people, you need about 150kw to get up to speed. You're going to > >> need enough solar cells to generate that amount of power in a period of six >> hours >> to go 300km and batteries to hold the charge. >> >> Once the train is moving, it needs less power to keep going. When it is >> running >> downhill it is recharging the batteries (regenerative). > >> >> Also, forget steel wheels. Think of something like mag-alloy or carbon fibre. >> >> "Conventional" trains, on the other hand, are 8000kg per carriage and have >> four >> 150kw motors. Thats just too heavy to go and attach solar cells to and >> expect it > >> to work. >> >> There's a whole lot of advances in battery technology like Lithium Ion >> Polymer >> and advances in solar cells that mean the surrounding technology is much >> moved >> on from where it was 5 years ago. >> >> It's possible to get people moving along a track with solar cells.. >> >> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Clifford Heath <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> On 30/01/2011, at 10:43 AM, David Lyon wrote: >> I'm having trouble even getting a VC meeting with my Solar Train. I'm being >> told "Since >> no such technology exists in the market.. (we have no time to even listen to >> a pitch)" >> Train speeds in Australia are still 80kmh on average which is the same >> average speed as what you used to get in the late 19th century. >> If I can get an order for a full train, each train will be $2.5M so whilst >> there is some risk >> there is also some potential to do things on the big scale working from a >> small base. >> >> David, > >> >> I'm not sure the numbers add up. Can you go through some of the >> arithmetic concerning the actual energy consumption and requirements >> of such a train? A lot of the ideas you've touted here seem to me to be >> a bit suspect in this department. A confident and competent mathematical >> presentation of the energy budgets would go a long way to convince me >> (and perhaps, VCs) that you know what you're talking about. > >> >> Clifford Heath. >> >> >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach >> Australia mailing list. >> >> Guidelines on discussion: >> http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia/msg/351e183e1303508d?hl=en%3Fhl%3Den >> >> No lurkers! 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