Exactly. The best batteries are Lithium Ion Polymer. However I'm testing with Nimh which are the same as used in the Prius. Batteries add a huge safety layer (tunnels + inclines + accelerating).
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:57 PM, Mike Nicholls <[email protected]>wrote: > > What if you laid the solar cells + batteries beside or in between the > tracks on the big hills and could pick up a charge when you needed it? > > > Mike Nicholls > Elders Real Estate Mosman > 0411 222. 551 > Follow me on <http://Twiiter.com/Mikenicholls88>Twiiter.com/Mikenicholls88 > > > Sent from my iPhone > > On 31/01/2011, at 8:46 PM, David Lyon <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Yep, > > That maths is more or less correct. However I'm not advocating something > that > will convey 500 passengers. Its a somewhat smaller number. > > One of the problems that Australia has with the High-Speed-Train is that > there > won't be 500 passengers per service. That makes the whole conventional HST > propositions unviable. The Solar Train has less passengers, but charges > more. > > The number that I am working with is about 20-40 passengers. You can use > your > maths to calculate how long the train will be. > > With 40 passengers paying $150 per ticket (lets use 35) it comes to $5350 > trip > multiplied by two (up and down) then in the afternoon (x2) = $21,000 per > day > between Canberra and Sydney. > > For 360 days, that is a revenue of $7,560,000 per year. Each Train will > cost > $2.5M to build. We'll need about six to eight. Time to pay back the money > will > be about four years. > > Yes, there is a polluting and more uncomfortable bus service that runs for > $15-35 > on the same leg. > > David > > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 5:42 PM, Clifford Heath <<[email protected]> > [email protected]> wrote: > >> David, >> >> Perhaps a small example would outline my concern. >> >> Supposing we had magical materials which weigh nothing, so we can >> disregard >> the mass of the train and just consider the payload. Beginning with a >> single person >> then, say 100Kg, travelling at 100km/hr. Railways routinely climb slopes >> up to 1 in >> 11. Normally less, but 1 in 11 is a common maximum sustained climb. >> >> The power required for this hypothetical train to lift this person at this >> rate is 2.5KW, >> since they're rising 2.5m/s, with a weight of 970N. >> >> Now if this train has a solar cell with high efficiency, say generously >> 18%, and it is >> in full noonday sun with the cells on the optimum angle, they make about >> 180W/m^2. >> >> That requires 14 square metres of solar cell, per person. With a >> weightless train, >> zero friction or drag, at noonday, with the cells angled correctly. >> >> Start factoring in the overheads, and you quickly reach a required 200m^2 >> per >> person. Carry 500 passengers, and a 5 metre-wide train would need to be >> 20km >> long, or one passenger every 40m of train length. This just *not* a >> feasible size for >> a train. Sure, this is a peak load while climbing a hill, and you'd be >> able to serve >> that load from batteries for some duration, but those 500 people and a >> train of >> comparable weight are still going to need 2.5MW to climb that hill. >> >> I could go on... there are a hundred other potential failures in this >> proposal, but... >> do you see why I'm skeptical? >> >> Clifford Heath. >> >> >> On 30/01/2011, at 3:55 PM, David Lyon wrote: >> >> Hi Clifford, >> >> >> I can give a preview yes, but not the whole mathematical equation. General >> maths >> >> are ok.there are a few sensitive IP design solutions that I'm not going >> into. >> >> >> Firstly, my van in my garage has 7 seats, a 2 litre 90hp petrol motor. Its >> good for >> >> 100kmh on the road. It weighs about 1700kg. Total weight for that with all >> people >> >> is therefore about 2400kg. >> >> >> In the old days, trains many trains were actually made from wood and had >> wooden >> >> wheels. That kept the weight down. For 20 people we are aiming with >> aluminium >> >> and aluminium honeycomb to get something for 900kg. Think what an >> aluminium >> >> 'tinny' boat weighs - four people can go in one of those and I've seen >> many that >> >> weigh as little as 100kg. Think what a cessna or light plane weighs and >> how they >> >> are constructed. >> >> >> To carry 20 people, you need about 150kw to get up to speed. You're going >> to >> >> need enough solar cells to generate that amount of power in a period of >> six hours >> >> to go 300km and batteries to hold the charge. >> >> >> Once the train is moving, it needs less power to keep going. When it is >> running >> >> downhill it is recharging the batteries (regenerative). >> >> >> Also, forget steel wheels. Think of something like mag-alloy or carbon >> fibre. >> >> >> "Conventional" trains, on the other hand, are 8000kg per carriage and have >> four >> >> 150kw motors. Thats just too heavy to go and attach solar cells to and >> expect it >> >> to work. >> >> >> There's a whole lot of advances in battery technology like Lithium Ion >> Polymer >> >> and advances in solar cells that mean the surrounding technology is much >> moved >> >> on from where it was 5 years ago. >> >> >> It's possible to get people moving along a track with solar cells.. >> >> >> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 11:37 AM, Clifford Heath <<[email protected]> >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >> On 30/01/2011, at 10:43 AM, David Lyon wrote: >> >> I'm having trouble even getting a VC meeting with my Solar Train. I'm >> being told "Since >> >> no such technology exists in the market.. (we have no time to even listen >> to a pitch)" >> >> Train speeds in Australia are still 80kmh on average which is the same >> >> average speed as what you used to get in the late 19th century. >> >> If I can get an order for a full train, each train will be $2.5M so whilst >> there is some risk >> >> there is also some potential to do things on the big scale working from a >> small base. >> >> >> David, >> >> >> I'm not sure the numbers add up. Can you go through some of the >> >> arithmetic concerning the actual energy consumption and requirements >> >> of such a train? A lot of the ideas you've touted here seem to me to be >> >> a bit suspect in this department. A confident and competent mathematical >> >> presentation of the energy budgets would go a long way to convince me >> >> (and perhaps, VCs) that you know what you're talking about. >> >> >> Clifford Heath. >> >> >> >> -- >> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach >> Australia mailing list. >> >> >> Guidelines on discussion: >> <http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia/msg/351e183e1303508d?hl=en%3Fhl%3Den> >> http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia/msg/351e183e1303508d?hl=en%3Fhl%3Den >> >> >> No lurkers! 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