Thanks Elias for the facts and Brian for the words of wisdom. They made a mistake but the backlash is way, way, way out of proportion.
As Brian said let's embrace the failure and maybe we can take away something positive. On Wednesday, September 11, 2013 6:09:31 PM UTC+10, Brian Lim wrote: > > +1 here for facts and data. > > I find it really interesting as a experiment in human behavior on how > quickly people react and how much information is required before they > respond. Now I agree with Elias Bizannes here, they made the mistake, the > will have to live and learn from it. However as he also points out so > nicely, how you guys are reacting to all of this. > > How many of you are jumping over imprecise information? How many of you > are quick to denounce the failure as something horrible and unrecoverable > in your eyes? > > Are not suppose to embrace failure? Are we not people who celebrate > mistakes are merely wisdoms along the journey? > > Where is this bond of Australians that was so strong, we have the Aussie > Mafia in the valley? > > If they were your brother, father, best friend or husband who did this, > would you act any differently? > > As Entrepreneurs, are we not suppose to be thought leaders and visionaries > in our respective fields? Or have we simply succumb to our primal emotions > of hate and anger when we see something we disagree with? > > Do we not all push boundaries where people question our sense of taste, > sanity or morales? > > Are we so high and mighty that we ourselves if under the same pressure and > situation would do something differently? > > So go ahead and have your opinions, have your say and have your > chat...just remember your words and your actions define how others see you > and the whole of the start up scene in Australia.. > > Titstare is just a startup that made its mistake, however the voice of the > community will tell others outside it, wether its just a startup making a > mistake, or the mistake of the entire startup ecosystem > > My opinion of the startup scenic in Australia has changed after all the > discussions all over the place. However still after 2 years of being here, > I still love the people and the reasons why we exist. > > So if you say something, say it wisely.. > > On Wednesday, 11 September 2013 13:26:42 UTC+10, Elias Bizannes wrote: >> >> I am getting sick of reading about this. A lot of damage is going on and >> people need the facts. >> >> First, let me qualify myself: >> - I was one of the five judges at the TechCrunch Disrupt hackathon. Yes, >> I had to sit through six hours of 264 presentations. >> - I was also there backstage when the female judges lost their shit where >> I had to calm them and the TechCrunch management were fuming and worried >> someone else would do this unprecedented thing that day. >> - the apology the team wrote was because I told them to do it and they >> are not talking to any more press since I gave them a schooling. I wrote >> them a detailed apology because they had no idea what to write hours after >> the event, and later they wrote a completely new one with several female >> friend's of theirs which was more their own words. >> >> What happened: >> - the guys worked on a different idea. They gave up and in the early >> hours of the next morning and changed it to Tit stare, because they thought >> they needed to do something to get the free tickets and thought they might >> as well have fun. >> - the submission system was broken and they couldn't submit their app. >> Geoff McQueen (the Aussie host) minutes before the event started told them >> bad luck -- I was there when Geoff walked off and the (unbeknownst to me) >> Tit stare team member who I had met a few days earlier for the first time >> asked me if I could help. I said sorry man, they are tight today on >> scheduling. >> - We watched a brave nine year old girl present an app about playmates, >> who's was number 237 on the list but was bumped to be one of the earlier >> presentations. Everyone was busy on the sidelines preparing their pitch so >> it's likely the guys didn't even see the pitch as they called up 50 teams >> at a time to prepare. You try organising 284 presentations from teams that >> didn't exist 24 hours earlier, it's harder than you think. >> - Presentation 66 was an app where a dude starting making wanking >> movements. It was juvenile but people laughed. >> - When presentation 68 came, we were told there has been a change to what >> was going on and that this was 68a. >> - Presentation 68b (tits stare) come on stage after 68a and did their >> presentation. If you haven't seen it, here it is: >> http://valleywag.gawker.com/techcrunch-disrupt-kicks-off-with-titstare-app-and-fa-1274394925. >> >> You will notice it's a presentation intending to take the piss out of guys >> who stare at women's breasts, a fact people seem to misinterpret as myopic >> due to the fact they guys made fun of the viral internet article we've seen >> for years that staring at women's breasts is good for your health and some >> cheesy play on words. >> >> Fate would have it that the next presentation was number 69 (which one of >> the judges thought was the reason they did this presentation, until I >> corrected her) and Ariana Richards who made headlines earlier this year for >> being fired due to Tweeting sexism at a conference, happened to be standing >> behind them on stage as they made their presentation. >> >> If this presentation was a skit on Full Frontal or a comedy club, people >> wouldn't have said anything and laughed just like they did at the >> conference. Step away from the objectification of a female body part, and >> you will see it was an attempt at comedy. The words, the timing -- it was >> an attempt on comedy, not an attack on women. >> >> It was juvenile, it was rude. But that's what some comedy is: saying the >> things people don't say and that are politically incorrect. The last fact a >> major cultural difference between Australia and California: Australian >> culture, like British culture (hello page 3 girls) is very male dominated >> and crude -- we grow up politically incorrect and tolerate things more than >> our American friends. I offend an American every day here in San Francisco, >> and usually it's just me trying to order my lunch. I'm not saying that's >> right, but it's why you will find more Aussies less offended by this. >> >> What the guys did was wrong: they used a sensitive term in the context of >> a female body part (tit) in a offensive way for a behavior women need to >> tolerate often (men staring at their breasts) at a professional event which >> did not have a mandate for comedy and had unspoken expectations of respect. >> That said, had they called their app "Douche Bag tracker" and focussed it >> on pathetic men who stare at women's breasts at they talked to them, they >> would have got a standing ovation from women who deal with this on a daily >> basis. >> >> But the rest is blowing things out of proportion -- the guys found a >> nerve (glass ceiling, women in tech, general male sleaze bag behavior) and >> smashed it with a hammer with their political incorrectness in a culture >> where if you fart you've caused global warming. Add to the fact it was >> Sunday, the slowest news day; and that Valley Wag loves to trash anyone >> when they can and boom, you have a controversy that is bigger than it >> deserves. >> >> I'm not defending the guys: they screwed up and deserve the consequences. >> It will serve as a lesson in how to respect women, which all us men need to >> learn as we don't realise sometimes, unintentionally, our words and actions >> make women uncomfortable (which I learned due to my sisters, but guys with >> brothers miss out on as an education). >> >> But if anyone in the Australian tech industry chooses to ostracize them >> because they fail to actually reflect on that they did and how the press >> is manipulating this story to be worse then it actually is, then I'm >> disappointed in you. Why? Because you're just as bad as the majority of >> American's who thought Al-Qaeda was in Iraq and hence one of the stupidest >> wars of recent memory, all thanks to taking things hook line and sinker due >> to the media. >> >> Elias Bizannes >> http://eliasbizannes.com >> >> >> On Tue, Sep 10, 2013 at 6:52 PM, Bronwen Clune <bro...@norg.com.au>wrote: >> >>> I'm sorry Dylan are you seriously trying to argue that people who >>> weren't there can't have an informed opinion on it? Try extend that logic a >>> bit further ... >>> >>> As for your comment about jokes about minorities, it is in poor taste. >>> And yes, I'm judging you for it. >>> >>> I'm over jerks. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On 11 September 2013 11:34, Dylan Sale <dylan...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Again, you weren't there and are arguing out of context. >>>> >>>> I have no problems with making jokes about minorities, as long as they >>>> are not mean spirited. I don't see this as being that. It may have been >>>> poor taste but I think it is inappropriate to demonise people over taste. >>>> But as I said I wasn't there so I can't argue in good faith either way. >>>> >>>> I'm just over the knee jerk demonisation I see with these kinds of >>>> things. People tend to get angry at the story told to them rather than the >>>> situation itself. >>>> >>>> Sent from my Android phone >>>> On 11/09/2013 10:23 AM, "Dylan Jay" <dj...@pretaweb.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> If the joke was at the expense of another minority in the audience for >>>>> example jewish, or Chinese or something, and it got a laugh would it >>>>> still >>>>> be ok? >>>>> There's plenty of ways to make jokes that don't make an already >>>>> marginalised segment of the community, more uncomfortable. Women are >>>>> unrepresented in tech startups. Making it feel like a sniggering >>>>> adolescent >>>>> boys club isn't going to help that. Lame joke anyway. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 11/09/2013, at 8:30 AM, Dylan Sale <dylan...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> > Seeing as the article says they got a pretty good laugh I'd say it >>>>> was a success as a pitch. This was obviously intended as a comedy stunt >>>>> and >>>>> like all comedy it is chosen for a specific audience. These guys had >>>>> probably taken a barometer reading and guessed it would go over well as a >>>>> joke. It was unfortunate that a child was there however. That is the only >>>>> thing I think is worth apologising over. >>>>> > >>>>> > What the world does not need more of is people who were not in the >>>>> audience going to war with people who make jokes to a specific audience >>>>> in >>>>> a specific context, or people crying "sexism" without thinking it >>>>> through. >>>>> I wasn't there so I'm not going to judge them without the context of the >>>>> event. >>>>> > >>>>> > Sent from my Android phone >>>>> > >>>>> > On 10/09/2013 11:03 PM, "Fai Wong" <wong...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> > To bring a fair perspective on your partner's experience a >>>>> AngelHack, even countless times when I say I'm a .Net programmer who had >>>>> developed in php and now Ruby on Rails, most non-programmers will go >>>>> clueless at .Net. So I don't think what your partner experienced was a >>>>> sexism issue. It is just as hard for a male programmer to be seen to have >>>>> better ideas or be more innovative, we're usually born to be a slave >>>>> coder. >>>>> I think it is more of an under-appreciation of what Internet startups >>>>> revolves around.. coding. While looking for co-founder for a few startups >>>>> last year, I've approached Sydney-siders on LinkedIn and they didn't take >>>>> me seriously. San Fran biz dev guys whom I approached on LinkedIn however >>>>> liked my ideas, spared time to Skype with me and would let me be the CEO >>>>> if >>>>> we became co-founders. WTF, a coder as a CEO, how is that possible?? >>>>> > >>>>> > I have no solution but to advise your partner to come up with her >>>>> own ideas, test them and learn the business side. Someday, she gets to be >>>>> the CEO and there would be a co-founder who would be happy to be the COO >>>>> as >>>>> the biz dev. side. Now that is a different world. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > On Tuesday, September 10, 2013 6:48:48 PM UTC+8, Melody >>>>> Ayres-Griffiths wrote: >>>>> > <rant> >>>>> > AngelHack IMHO is _NOT_ a 'developer hackathon' -- it is a pitching >>>>> competition. >>>>> > >>>>> > And my partner, a female developer who would be considered a >>>>> 'rock-star' if she was male, was generally minimised and ignored by the >>>>> attendees at the AngelHack we attended despite her 15 years of >>>>> experience, >>>>> and ability to develop in every language from COBOL forward. Which only >>>>> re-enforces the point. >>>>> > >>>>> > The startup culture in Australia needs work. It's not as much a >>>>> meritocracy as people like to paint it, and it's extremely patriarchical. >>>>> > </rant> >>>>> > >>>>> > On Tuesday, September 10, 2013 10:04:06 AM UTC+10, Barry Teoh wrote: >>>>> > They actually are programmers. >>>>> > >>>>> > The guys won a developer hackathon (AngelHack) back in May >>>>> > >>>>> > On Monday, September 9, 2013 7:13:22 PM UTC+10, Fai Wong wrote: >>>>> > In their defense, they're both not programmers. So unfair to label >>>>> them as brogrammers! >>>>> > >>>>> > On Monday, September 9, 2013 3:06:12 PM UTC+8, Geoff Langdale wrote: >>>>> > Great work: >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.smh.com.au/digital-life/smartphone-apps/techcrunch-forced-to-apologise-over-sydney-duos-titstare-app-20130909-2tflb.html >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> http://www.theatlanticwire.com/technology/2013/09/titstare-tech-worlds-latest-brogrammer-joke-techcrunch-disrupt/69171/ >>>>> > >>>>> > It's got everything, right down to the pro forma "sorry if you are >>>>> offended" disingenuous apology on twitter. And apparently this is a "fun >>>>> Aussie hack", which insults fun, Aussies and hacks. >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > -- >>>>> > -- >>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon >>>>> Beach Australia mailing list. Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.orgfor >>>>> more >>>>> > >>>>> > Forum rules >>>>> > 1) No lurkers! 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Vist http://siliconbeachaustralia.orgfor more >>>> >>>> Forum rules >>>> 1) No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. >>>> 2) No jobs postings. You can use http://siliconbeachaustralia.org/jobs >>>> >>>> >>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>> silicon-bea...@googlegroups.com >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en >>>> >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Silicon Beach Australia" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Bronwen Clune >>> t: @bronwen >>> e: bro...@norg.com.au >>> m: 0423 863 843 >>> >>> -- >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon >>> Beach Australia mailing list. 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