I am reviewing that literature now. I did find one interesting sentence: Silver at 50-500 mg/kg body weight is the lethal toxic dose in humans.
When I was a teenager I swallowed a quarter. This was when quarters were 90% silver. It weighed 6.25 grams, so there was 5.625 grams of silver there. I weighted about 100 pounds, or about 40 KG. The lethal dose would be 2 to 20 grams. So I should have had a dosage that was in the lethal range. I did not even get sick. I cannot help but believe they are speaking of silver salts, not silver metal. Marshall AVRA / Jason wrote: > Marshall: > > It is a known fact that silver dust can cause Argyria; that silver protein > can cause Argyria; that silver salts can cause Argyria. That this is not > widely known outside of older doctors these days is that exposure to silver > has been limited. > > The real truth is that no research has been done with electro-colloidal > silver. The fact that small concentrations are used, and thus any possible > Argyria may take ten to twenty years to occur through daily use does not > lessen what is known, and what is not known, and what people believe they > know. > > How many references do you want? I have posted many previously, here's a > few newer ones: > > http://www.emedicine.com/derm/topic595.htm > > I don't think the 'ole conspiracy theory works in the case of this Professor > of Medicine from Poland. > > The reason all of the research concerning Argyria points to metallic silver, > silver protein, and silver salts is that these types of silver have been > available for study and of interest to human health. That's the only > reason. > > Again, it is COMMON knowledge that silver toxicity is fatal. This isn't > something mysterious or new. You obviously didn't look at the references > that I posted before, so I won't repeat them over and over. > > Here's a reprinted reference to Silver from the Merk manual: > > http://www.luminet.net/~wenonah/toxic.htm > > Here's another example of the idea that metallic silver can cause Argyria: > > "Suzuki_H; Baba S; Uchigasaki S; Murase M (1993) Localized argyria with > chrysiasis caused by implanted AP needles: Distribution and chemical forms > of silver and gold in cutaneous tissue by electron microscopy and x-ray > microanalysis. J Am Acad Dermatol Nov 29(5 Pt 2):833-837. Dept of Dermatol, > Surugadai Nihon Univ Hospital, Tokyo, Japan. A case of localized argyria > with chrysiasis caused by implanted AP needles in a 41-yr-old Japanese woman > was studied by electron microscopy and x-ray microanalysis. Large amounts of > Ag granules with Se and S were detected around eccrine secretory cells in > much greater amounts than around ductal cells. Many granules were also > observed along the outer edge of the basement membrane but never within > cells or intercellular spaces. The granules were also present around blood > vessels, lymphatics and nerve fibres and in elastic fibres. Small numbers of > Au fragments were also seen, mostly within macrophages. Ag deposited > extracellularly as selenide and sulphide, whereas free Au was found > intracellularly." > > My position has always been stated clearly. I don't believe that there is > significant risk of Argyria from taking reasonable amounts of quality low > PPM colloidal silver. I believe that there is a difference between how the > body handles electro-colloidal silver, even aside from the comparatively low > concentrations consumed. However, this is founded in belief and not fact. > > I don't see anyone volunteering to inject .5 gram doses of silver into the > blood, even if that means going on an IV drip. Since this has not been > done, there is no real data to compare with the studies that have been done. > > I don't recommend that anyone exceed the EPA guidelines for CS consumption > without good reason. In such situations, I always recommend internal > cleansing programs and dietary supplementation. There is simply little need > to do so. > > As far as anions being related to silver toxicity? That's just a bunch of > made-up head-work. Anions might play a significant role in depositing > silver in the body, but it has absolutely no relation to silver toxicity > itself. Once the silver is deposited into body tissues, it is the silver > that causes the toxicity. > > This type of thinking is resultant of insecure people sitting down and > starting with the premise: I don't think CS causes Argyria, so how many > different theories can I produce to support this idea? People who aren't > comfortable saying "you know, this really hasn't been demonstrated" - and > people who certainly know that they don't sell products with the truth, and > therefore fool themselves as to sleep well at night. > > The problem is when you step up to the plate as an expert, and you make the > choice to limit the information you are giving to people who trust you. > > How many cases of Argyria have been reported to you in the last six months? > > Likely, none. That is a byproduct of your life, not a reflection of > reality. I've run into a total of five cases in the last six months... > Four of which have to do with mild silver protein. One I reported to the > list because it was of interest. That case was either caused by large > silver particles, or by silver chloride.... Either of which indicate that > electro-colloidal silver can possibly enduce Argyria, as silver chloride IS > produced when electro-colloidal silver enters the body, and there are silver > particles in CS. It may just take four to eight times as long.... Which > would be about 20 to 40 years of daily high volume use ( 8 or 16 ounces > daily ), in someone who may have a predisposition to Argyria, for whatever > reason. > > I simply respect people enough to allow them to make their own decisions > based on ALL available information - not just the information I am happy > with. Generally speaking, the end user doesn't have an emotional attachment > nor a financial interest in colloidal silver. Generally speaking, people > can wade through the contradictory information and find a solution that they > are comfortable with, and are glad to have access to the whole story, > becuase they don't like their intelligence insulted. > > As far as the rest, generally speaking, toxicity starts at the liver. When > silver starts coming out of your fingernails, it is indicative that the body > is not eliminating it through normal channels. That's why I always use a 4 > hour cycle when calculating doses of anything. It is a wise principle of > natural medicine to always first and foremost consider the liver. > > Something changed between time A ( taking CS and no change in fingernails ) > and time B. That's why it doesn't come out of the fingernails when one > first starts using it. It's either a cumulation of silver, a decrease in > the liver's ability to eliminate it, or a dietary deficiency that is causing > the change. > > Believe me, I get it from all ends... The mild silver protein people are > even worse! Venomous denial that mild silver protein can cause Argyria. > > Of further interest, if you look very careful into the legal world, you'll > notice some legal firms now listing Argyria as an injury to inquire on as > far as potential lawsuits go. > > There's no reason to get panicky or upset about the potential of Argyria, or > the unknowns involved. The biggest problem comes from MISUNDERSTANDINGS, > which would never occur in the first place if the person in question had all > of the available data at their disposal, which, in EVERY single case I've > come across, this information was held back by the promoters because they > didn't feel the data was applicable to their product -- or their pocket > book. The MSP people are particularly bad in this respect, as people tend > to triple to quadruple suggested dosage levels. The MSP people don't feel > this is their responsibility -- if people take four ounces of their product > daily and develop problems. > > Like the individual who has a very mild case of Cosmetic Argyria from > drinking Water OZ, cosmetic Argyria from electro colloidal silver, if it > ever occured, would likely manifest nearly invisibly. Nuerological damage > would likewise be nearly undetectable. > > Frankly, there is just no reason to consume so much silver as to accumulate > nine grams of silver in the body. I continue to take the conservative > approach, as there is no risk to health in doing so, and there is no > sacrifice to the beneficial properties of CS. > > I can agree to disagree. > > Jason > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Marshall Dudley > To: silver-list@eskimo.com > Sent: Monday, August 26, 2002 8:43 AM > Subject: Re: CS>Caffeine > > AVRA / Jason wrote: > Summer: The idea that caffeine is in any way directly related to Argyria is > patently false. > > I never said that caffine is related to argyria. Only that for compounds of > silver to plate out on silver atoms to form larger clumps of silver requires > a developer. This requirement is scientific fact. If you don't believe it > then study some photo developing books. It is plain chemistry. If it plates > out then a developer must be present. Now I said that caffine makes a fair > developer, as do a large variety of tannic acid compounds. It is quite > likely that some natural fluid of the body is also a developer, but as far > as I know that has not been tested or verified. I prefer to work with facts > and not speculation, and the fact is that caffine and tannic acid compounds > are indeed developers. Are they necessary for argyria to develop, probably > not, since there will be likely other developers present in low quantity. > Will having large amounts of caffine or tannic acid compounds in the blood > increase the formation of argyria? I believe that an educated guess is that > they would since rapid silver plating out is believe to be necessary. > > If the silver is depositing in the fingernails, it is likely it has already > started to accumulate internally, but this has not been conclusively > demonstrated either. The only way to tell would be via biopsy or autopsy. > > Since it only accumulated in an area that was actively growing, how can you > reach that conclusion for an already grown adult? > If silver buildup reaches a toxic level interally it is lethal. > > I have never seen any evidence that silver is toxic, and certainly not > lethal. What evidence do you have for this? Don't go quoting anything that > used silver compounds, we all know some silver compounds are toxic. I can > use the same logic to prove that carbon or nitrogen is lethal by using > cyanide HCN as an example. The compound is not the same thing as the > element. > I can quote from an authoritive source that supports this. CRC Handbook, > 52nd edition, page B-30: "While silver itself if non-toxic, most of it salts > are poisonous due to the anions present. .... Silver has germacidal effects > and kills many lower organisms effectively without harm to higher animals." > This, I believe, would be nearly ( if not ) impossible with the use of low > PPM colloidal silver, even with extremely large amounts of colloidal silver > consumed daily over a lifetime. Such things were at one time documented > with very high concentrations of silver compounds injected into the body. > Extreme silver toxicity has severe nuerological and respiratory > consequences. > Once again, I have never seen any evidence or documentation of this for CS > or silver metal. That is for silver compounds. You are doing the same thing > the FDA does and try to confuse CS with silver compounds. They act totally > different. No one argues with these facts with silver compounds, but to try > and transfer the data over to CS is not legitimate without any supporting > evidence, of which I have never seen any. > I would assume that if CS were to cause neurological damage it would impare > one's IQ. My IQ was around 100 last time I had it tested years ago. I just > took another test a few weeks ago after taking CS for 4 years, and now it is > reported as 135. Would neurological damage caue an IQ increase? I don't > think so. > Marshall > > -- > The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > > Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org > > To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > > Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@eskimo.com>
