Mike, I guess the reason for stirring is because I use higher current density because of the close electrode spacing on our high speed units and that absolutely requires it. The combination of the two speeds the process dramatically and that's what I was after when designing the unit. Most people want to make a good product and at the same time not wait a long time for the process to be done. I've accomplished that and am very pleased with the results as attested to by the fact that the CS never agglomerates (see the electron microscope photos) and is highly ionic. What more would one want than speed of production, ease of use, automatic shutoff and a good product? I'm not about to change the design just because someone says the electrodes will not blacken if I use much lower current and don't stir. That would also require increasing electrode spacing dramatically since I use one half inch spacing.
I think you're not considering the water flow is vigorous enough there is minimal edge release of ions. I think the high flow rate is what contributes to even release of the ions across the entire surface of the electrodes. I may be wrong but so far I'm not in doubt. Anyway, the use of round wires is not an alternative and really isn't necessary since the generators work so well with flat electrodes. Why modify a good device? You have your ideas and that's fine but please stop knocking my generators without knowing the facts. I don't appreciate a self serving "expert engineer" coming along and telling people that my design and implementation is no good when in fact they are a very good product. In the years of manufacturing them I have not had one customer return one under our 30 day money back guarantee nor have I had one customer complain about yellowing which cannot be said of most of the other units available. Give me a break! Trem www.silvergen.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Monett" <fcue0n...@sneakemail.com> To: <silver-list@eskimo.com> Sent: Friday, June 13, 2003 10:51 AM Subject: Re: CS>$$$ perpectives > url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m60147.html > Re: CS>$$$ perpectives > From: Trem > Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2003 09:30:35 > > > I test each SG7 individually by running a 1 1/2 gallon batch to > > assure the unit works properly before shipment. I also produce a > > batch every day or so to use around our household and also produce > > and give away as much as possible locally to those needing it. I > > conservatively estimate at least 500 gallons have been made using > > the test electrode which still looks original as far as shape is > > concerned. That is the edges of the electrodes (4) are not thin > > and sharp as you keep stating will be the fact. They started out > > at .013 inches and they are still that thickness as best I can > > measure. > > You are right. The effect is more likely to show up on the smaller > system, which uses 0.25" plates. It won't sharpen the edge, but > rather smooth it and also tend to reduce the width. But the plates > are too thin to show much of a "V" due to the edge effect. They wear > through too fast. > > The 1.5" plates on your production unit are much too wide to show > this effect, except you might see some rounding of the corners. > > I calculated the loss in thickness assuming you run at 15 ppm, and > found you may have lost about 2.4 thousandths of an inch in > thickness on the inner pair of plates. This is negligible compared > to the 1.5" width. The outer plates may have lost 1.2 mils, which > might be hard to measure. This assumes no silver is lost on the > outward-facing sides. > > But the edge effect shows where the current density is the highest. > If you shut off the stirring, you should to see misting occur first > at the edges of the cathode, then spread to the rest of the > electrode. Misting is a sign of particle generation, which tends to > limit the maximum ion concentration. > > I have not had much success using stirring to prevent this. I get > strange side effects, such as the cs is not a strong as it should be > according to the number of Coulombs transferred. It is not as > effective as without stirring, and one sample coalesced and formed a > small silver lump at the bottom of the glass when it was placed in a > refrigerator. So I have abandoned stirring. > > The significance of the edge effect is if you want to run below the > misting level, you have to reduce the current below the value you > could reach with round wires. > > However, you could insulate the edges as Ole Bob has done, and your > production unit might be an unbeatable system, especially if you > added more plates - they are cheap and you have plenty of room. > > I don't know if the large plates would block the dispersal and lead > to higher ion concentration, which could lead to misting. The > advantage of round wires is the space between the wires promotes > even dispersal of the ions without the need for stirring. > > Reversing the polarity might delay the onset of misting. This needs > to be examined separately, but if so, it could also be applied to > round wires. > > > And please don't tell me the ions made with your process are > > better than those made with mine. I don't believe it. > > Heh - you must be used to dealing with kooks. I never said that or > implied it anywhere. I also don't believe that solar flares or the > phase of the moon has any effect on cs production. An ion is an ion. > > > So once again I ask the question...why would one want to watch and > > wait for what would be an interminable amount of time for the > > product to be ready to use in order to keep the electrode clean > > when one can make it as fast as 2 gallons per hour and have a > > little residue which resides in the bottom of the vessel? > > With a given volume of dw, the ppm is determined by the number of > Coulombs transferred. With constant current, the time is easily > calculated according to the number of Coulombs needed. > > The real difference is that running at low current densities such as > 100 uA/sq. in. produces no black crud. You can deposit more Coulombs > in the solution without running into misting. The electrodes stay > clean. Stirring is not needed, and the cs stays clear. > > This means there are more silver ions in the water and available to > kill germs and virus. > > I believe this is why it is much more effective than the stuff I > used to make at 1.4 mA/sq. in. > > Best Regards, > > Mike Monett > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Appendix - Calculation of thickness lost on parallel plates > > Convert 500 gallons to litres: > > lt = 3.785 * gal > = 3.785 * 500 > = 1892.5 litres > > Calculate weight of silver assuming 15 ppm. > > ppm = mg / lt ; parts per million > mg = ppm * lt > = 15 * 1892.5 > = 28387.5 milligrams > = 28.3875 grams > > Calculate volume of silver at 10.5 gr/cm^3 > > cc = gm / 10.5 > = 28.3875 / 10.5 > = 2.7035 cc > > Calculate volume of silver in cubic inches. > > cuin = 0.06 * cc > = 0.06 * 2.7035 > = 0.1622 cu in > > Calculate active area of anode plates during one cycle, assuming > zero current on outward facing side. > > Plate P1 P2 P3 P4 > Cycle 1 A1 C1 A2 C2 > Cycle 2 C1 A1 C2 A2 > > area = w * h * n > = 1.5 * 5 * 3 > = 22.5 sq in > > Calculate total thickness of silver lost. > > th = cuin / area > = 0.1622 / 22.5 > = 0.0072 in > = 7.2 mils > > Calculate thickness per side. > > ea = th / 3 > = 7.2 / 3 > = 2.4 mils > > Calculate loss due to duty cycle. > > pc = ea / 2 > = 2.4 / 2 > = 1.2 mils > > So plates P2 and P3 should lose 2.4 mils, and P1 and P4 1.2 mils. > > The actual ratio will show how much current appears at the > outward-facing sides of P1 and P4. > > > -- > The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. > > Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org > > To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > > Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@eskimo.com> > > > >
