I am posting this again due to it being missing from the archives. Continued from previous message.
> Silver nitrate causes Argyria - where are the particles? Huh, they form in the skin. Silver nitrate becomes silver chloride in the stomach, it is then absorbed into the blood stream where it is exposed to chemicals that make it want to plate out. But there is nothing to plate out on. Some will end up in the skin where it is exposed to light, and photoreduced to silver atoms. Once some silver particles (atoms) are produced in the skin, the silver compound in the blood immediately plates out on them, and they grow very rapidly until they get stuck in the skin causing argyria. I have explained this many times. The science is extremely well known and researched by Eastman Kodak. Franks tests that show no silver compounds in the blood after taking EIS also support this. Please for heavens sake, get a good book on the photographic process. It is all explained there. I am amazed that someone can continually claim that the photographic process does not occur, when people have been using it successfully for over 100 years. > > > It is possible to make cs with very low silver hydroxide content. Yes, if you make very low ppm of EIS, or somehow make the particle content much larger than the typical 10%. > > Nobody has got Argyria from ionic cs, but plenty have from MSP and > other products. See Jason's articles on Argyria: > > http://www.silvermedicine.org/argyria-cases.html > > http://www.silvermedicine.org/argyria.html > Yes, that supports my theory. Colloidal silver is a prophylactic to argyria, that means that it prevents it. > > > Ionic silver improves healing due to it's ability to make injured > > cells de-differentiate. > > I agree completely. I have had some near-miraculous healing of > second degree burns by placing ordinary bandages over the open > wounds and keeping them soaked with 20uS cs. > > A week or two later, the layers of skin are replaced with fresh skin > and you cannot tell where the damage occurred. There is no scar > whatsoever. > That ionic forms of silver enhance healing has been very well documented. > > > I am simply interested in know exactly how all this works, and I > > really don't care if it is the ions or particles that do certain > > things, since any good EIS will have both. > > I don't believe this is true. As mentioned above, it is possible to > make high ionic cs with very low silver hydroxide content. No, it is not. Silver hydroxide has about 13 ppm of solubility as does silver oxide. Between the two of them it sets an upper level of ionic concentration of about 26 to 27 ppm, which is right where things really begin falling apart. What are you considering high ionic content? > > > The silver hydroxide particles give cs the yellow tint. It is > desirable from a cosmetic point of view to minimize it. This means > finding ways to minimize the production of silver hydroxide. > No, silver hydroxide when dissolved in water is totally clear and colorless. The yellow tint is from the particles, this has been proven time and again, it is documented in scientific literature dating back decades. I have run photospectrographic samples of EIS and find that they obey the published absorption curves exactly. If you freeze EIS, then thaw it, the color disappears, as the particulate portion is precipitated out, but the ionic portion, IE the silver hydroxide and silver oxide is not. If you add salt to EIS, it will still keep the same yellow color since salt does not react with the particles, and silver chloride is colorless which is formed from the silver oxide and silver hydroxide when dissolved, but forms a white precipitate when it exceeds it's very limited solubility. All this is known and proven. > > > I believe that in the body both ions and particles end up being > > particles in the end, so it does not really matter what you start > > with. > > The pople who make MSP products claim you need extremely large > concentrations in the bloodstream - several thousand ppm for invive, > and perhaps 40,000 ppm for tetrasilver. You do for MSP, it is trapped in a protein. I don't know anything about tetrasilver, up until recently I thought it was insoluble. Tetrasilver is a compound of silver, so not relevent anyway to how silver particles work. > > > If particles have any biological effect, why do these products have > such high silver concentration? Because when trapped in a protein they lose activity. I am surprised they work at all. Tetarsilver is a compound, and not relevent to particles at all. > > > I believe the only thing in cs that has any effect is the ions. > The > silver hydroxide particles are insoluble, inert, and have no > biological activity. If it were insoluble, then there could be no such thing as ionic silver. We all know it exists. And if you say that the particle portion of EIS is ineffective, and now you are saying that the ionic portion is ineffective, that would mean that the whole thing is ineffective, which we both know is not true. You are implying that you can have a cation without an anion, which of course is absolutely impossible, the equations have to balance, and the total charge has to sum to 0. You cannot have silver cations without a anion to balance it. There is only silver, oxygen and hydrogen available, so the only choices for the anion are the OH radical, and oxygen. Thus the only two things ionic silver CAN be are silver hydroxide and silver oxide (or peroxide which IS totally insoluble). > Steve Quinto's time/kill analysis of Mesosilver > shows that the ions kill quickly, but the chlorides and particles > are inert in comparison to the ions. > > http://tinyurl.com/3qb4v We have conflicting information when compared with Frank's studies. The short time may have been insufficient for the particles to kill everything. Also it is possible that the particles kill primarily during multiplication of the microbes like most antibiotics, which would mean that there was no time it could have killed them, they would not be dividing until they had a nutrients, and once on the gel, the particles had no mobility. My own studies showed that EIS effectiveness drops way off if not done in a nutrient bath that is liquid like the blood. The experiment is flawed, there are too many open questions it presents. It is quite likely that the ionic portion of the silver chloride actually did most of it's killing after being put on the gel, since unlike the particles it would still have mobility. The experiment is flawed, there are too many open questions it presents. More experiments to narrow it down need to be done. Frank has done some additional experiments in broth, and found that the particles are just as active as the ions, so that tend to support this line of thinking. However there is one other possiblity I had not considered. Once the silver chloride reaches the blood stream, it is wanting to plate out on any silver particles it can find, or be reduced chemically or via photoreduction. What if the processes going on inside a pathogen cause the silver ion to plate out inside the bacteria, then other particles plate out on it causing it to grow so the bacteria cannot get rid of it? That could explain some things as well. Maybe it happens when cells divide, which would target bacteria and other pathogens, as well as growing tissues. Do we have evidence of this? Yes in fact we do, when one takes large quantities of IES it can darken areas of the body that are growing rapidly, IE hair and the moons of fingernails. It is quite possible a combination of things that allow silver to kill bacteria, and both the ionic as well as the colloidal form do so, but by different methods. The colloidal form quite likely oxidizes the bacteria, killing it like H2O2 does. The ionic form quite likely interfers with an internal chemical process, and both could mess up the electrostatic balance of the cell. The ionic portion tends to repair dna or cause reversal of the dna expression, which just might kill or inactivate viruses since they are not full dna, but snippets which are preexpressed for the host it is infecting. > > > Silverlon bandages claim the body fluids convert elemental silver > into ions, but you have to wet the bandage with dw first. > Yes, apparently they have silver and another metal, and when you add a fluid, you have shorted battery, and it produces silver ions just like any EIS setup does with a battery. > > The photos on their web site clearly show healing does take place. > But it would seem to be much more effective if plain bandages were > soaked in high ionic cs and placed on the wounds. Maybe, maybe not. The ionic portion in the bandage could be converted to silver chloride pretty rapidly resulting in a maximum ppm of no more than 1 ppm, but if you continually supply the silver ions, they may be able to maintain a higher level of silver ions, completely swamping out any chloride ions in the vicinity. Marshall -- The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@eskimo.com>
