On Jan 21, 2008 1:26 AM, Natasha Vita-More <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> At 12:54 PM 1/20/2008, Ben wrote:
>
>
>
> I created a revised version of the essay,
> which may not address all your complaints, but hopefully addressed some of
> them.
>
> http://www.goertzel.org/Chapter12_aug16_05.pdf
>
> However I would be quite interested in further critiques of the 2005
> version, because the book in which is was
published is going to be reissued
> in 2008 and
> my coauthor and I are planning to rework the chapter anyway.
> I read the 2005 (above link) essay (Chapter 12) this evening. It is a
> fluid, well-written piece. Thank you Ben for allowing me to comment. I
> would like to first give my view as a meta observation and then focus on a
> few particulars.
>
> The essay summarizes extropians by focusing on one person, Sasha, as if he
> is a prototype for extropianism. Sasha, however brilliant and influential
> in many ways, was not a prototype for extropians or the philosophy of
> Extropy. Even less so is Hans Moravec, on whom the article also focuses.
> In fact, because of the principles of Extropy, no one person ought to be
> singled out as a prototype, as it would be incongruous. Second, the essay
> critiques extropians from a political perspective rather than from
> critiquing it as a philosophical and social movement. Since Extropy is a
> philosophy philosophical and social movement, it must be first and foremost
> recognized, observed and criticized as a
philosophy philosophical and social
> movement of transhumanism. Attempts to box it into a particular political
> party's or ideology will no doubt miss the core beliefs and finer points
> which politics, by its very nature, misses.
>
> A final note on the meta observation is that you missed any and all of my
> own writings on transhumanism which evidences concepts concerning a more
> humane transhumanism and ideas about compassion, human understanding, and
> social issues. I wrote about the importance of compassion in transhumanism
> from 1982 forward, and especially in the 1990s after I joined Extropy
> Institute. I am not asking you to give me any credit for this; I am asking
> that you not claim that it was missing from the philosophy of Extropy
> because it was indeed there. Not only did I
write about it, Greg Burch [for
> instance, in his "extrosattva" posts] and many others did as well. At the
> Extro Conferences, especially Extro5, it was a main issue of several of the
> talks.
>
> A few of the particulars that caught my eye are:
>
> "This group of computer geeks and general high-tech freaks ..." This
> interpretation is journalistic and lacking in credibility. First, the
> founders of the institute are a philosopher and lawyer. The Board of
> Directors were authors, professors, business executives, etc.
>
> "Along the way they want to get rid of governments, moral strictures, and
> eventually humanity itself,..." This phrase
lacks merit. I think a problem
> with this style of writing is that it wants to use alarming statements
> instead of simply telling the truth. The truth is usually far more exotic
> than exaggeration. What is true is that governments which are tyrannical
> and troublesome and of concern to extropians, who did not blink at saying
> so. Nevertheless, truer is the fact that many extropians, including
> myself, are thinking about the far future --and in the far future,
> governments will be outdated structures. In the far, far future humanity
> will have evolved into posthumanity. This does not mean that extropians
> what to "get rid of humanity" at all. You
must remember that extropy is the
> core, original philosophy of
transhumanism. As such, humanity is in a stage
> of transition. Transition means in the
process of becoming something other.
> It does not mean "getting rid" of humanity.
>
> Using the term "Social-Darwinism" is
inaccurate because it poisons the well
> of your readership by implying that it is a desire for those who are more
> fit than others to dominate. This term makes a socio-economic/political
> inference, rather than explaining why extropians want to self-improve. One
> of the most important characteristics of
extropians is the desire to see ALL
> humanity improve, NOT a select few who can "afford" it.
>
> "... one might call it libertarian
transhumanism." Again, the overemphasis
> on pigeon-holing Extropy as a political worldview is a misnomer and missing
> the larger scope of the philosophy which has
more to do with human potential
> and individual/social change than a political world view.
>
> "...For instance, visionary robotics Hans Moravec, a hero ..." This
> paragraph presents a false dichotomy because it equates comments about the
> "far future" to the "near or present." For example, you might ask me,
> "Natasha, what is your dream for the
future?" And I might say, "I'd like to
> see university students performing research in space habitats on the Moon."
> And then you write, "Natasha is anti-academia
to a remarkable, ultra-radical
> extreme. She wants to do away with all universities on Earth and only have
> researchers who can afford to travel to the moon, which would cost $2.5
> million dollars. She is an elitist Republican."
>
> In regards to Moravec, let me say that I am very fond of Hans and consider
> him to be a remarkable roboticist. But his expertise is robotics and AI,
> not politics. So using him as an icon in claiming extropians are radical
> libertarians because of what Hans says is fun reading, but not a reasonable
> conclusion.
>
>
> Please indulge me a little further as I make comments on a personal note:
>
> "... Max's wife Natasha ..." Please do not call me a wife. I am a
> scholar, media artist, futurist and now, according to the New York Times,
> "The first female philosopher of
transhumanism." Calling me a wife, however
> complimentary, is degrading when you are writing about a philosophy that I
> hold dear. Further I was president of Extropy Institute for a number of
> years, and reducing me to "wife" position is belittling.
>
> "... and his wife Natasha ..." Once again, the wifey-poo description.
>
> After writing these comments, I went to my bookshelf and pulled down the
> book I wrote in the 1990s Create/Recreate: The 3rd Millennial Culture about
> Extropy and transhumanist culture. I skimmed though more than a dozen of
> the collection of essays and was reminded
about one core value of extropy --
> that of practical optimism. I also was
reminded that the underlying concern
> expressed in each essay was/is a desire to see transhumanism work to help
> solve the many hardships of humanity everywhere.
>
> Thank you Ben. Best wishes,
>
> Natasha
>
>
>
> Natasha Vita-More PhD Candidate, Planetary Collegium - CAiiA, situated in
> the Faculty of Technology, School of Computing, Communications and
> Electronics, University of Plymouth, UK Transhumanist Arts & Culture
> Thinking About the Future
>
> If you draw a circle in the sand and study only what's inside the circle,
> then that is a closed-system perspective. If you study what is inside the
> circle and everything outside the circle, then that is an open system
> perspective. - Buckminster Fuller
>
>
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--
Ben Goertzel, PhD
CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC
Director of Research, SIAI
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"We are on the edge of change comparable to the rise of human life on Earth."
-- Vernor Vinge
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